Should nuts in school be banned for the small % who have "nut allergies"

EmmetSpiceland · 09-10-2019 9:50pm

AulWan wrote: »

She died after eating accidentally eating a satay dish in a chinese restaurant without knowing what it contained.

Very tragic death, she was only 14.

Well, that and the fact the jobsworth chemist refused to handover an epi-pen that would have saved her life.

c.p.w.g.w · 09-10-2019 9:50pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Yeah, that was heartbreaking. And controversial if I remember rightly.

But why didn't the mother have the pen with her...chemists can't just give out one without the script...unfortunately the parents share the blame on their daughters death along with the restaurant

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 09-10-2019 9:51pm

Alexandria Quick Doughnut wrote: »

So what happens when they are outside school, are you going to try and control every other environment that the kids encounter.

Classic bulldoze parenting. Bulldoze everything out of my child's way and make other people adjust to my child's circumstances.

What rare condition do we need to placate to next. And it's always parents who had their kids in their 40's who are so precious about their kids.

Well I'd imagine they will just do what they can to minimise the risks, that's all they can do.

Make people aware of the allergy and its severity, educate. They would know all too well to be careful about where and what is eaten, educate the child as much as possible until they are old enough to take responsibility themselves.

I would never offer anyone elses child something to eat without checking first. Chances are if there's an allergy you will already know about it but it doesn't do any harm to check first.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 09-10-2019 9:52pm

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

If the government removed the the advice for pregnant women not to eat nuts during pregnancy the allergy rates would drop way down.

Allergy rates are on the increase in the countries that continue to advice expecting mothers to avoid nuts during pregnancy.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/270605.php

But my SIL & Sister were both told to avoid anything with peanuts, despite the fact neither had an allergy to nuts or peanuts. In the early 00's i know if was a massive campaign for pregnant women to avoid peanuts while pregnant.

I’m all for research into this topic and questions about why allergy rates are climbing.

This doesn’t help anyone who has these very serious allergies though. They need to be taken seriously.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 09-10-2019 9:55pm

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

But why didn't the mother have the pen with her...chemists can't just give out one without the script...unfortunately the parents share the blame on their daughters death along with the restaurant

A fuck up, I guess. I’m sure she feels some responsibility, maybe all of it. Who knows? It seems like in an emergency situation, protocol should be able to waived somehow. It seems obscene that the thing that could have saved the girl was nearby and couldn’t be used. It just doesn’t seem right. Was the chemist being officious? Or would they genuinely have got into a lot of trouble even if a life was saved? I don’t know.

MeisterG · 09-10-2019 9:56pm

It will eventually come to this one way or another as the instances of diagnosis are increasing rapidly in the Western (and specifically urban) world.

My son has a peanut allergy and the level of stress the condition induces in parents and child alike is difficult to articulate, every kids party, meal out, flight contains a small in probability but large in downside risk.

09-10-2019 9:56pm

i think that there's been a huge move towards everyone in a wider group having to swerve around the needs (and often "needs") of small minorities.

there is a point where practicalities seem to have gone out the window for the sake of inclusion at any cost.

nut allergies are obviously potentially very serious, but if one child from many has such a sensitive condition is there a case that they have to be educated separately rather than everyone else making accommodation?

c.p.w.g.w · 09-10-2019 9:57pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I’m all for research into this topic and questions about why allergy rates are climbing.

This doesn’t help anyone who has these very serious allergies though. They need to be taken seriously.

Here is a video which explains it a bit further, very interesting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OXI17ye9Gw

For people who already have it, there is a way to reverse the allergy by exposing them to micro-doses via exposure therapy...I think UCC do it

cnocbui · 09-10-2019 9:57pm

Raconteuse wrote: »

No I don't remember that.

What I remember is a girl who was 14. She had a meal with peanuts in it and neither she nor her mother had an epi-pen. Her mother went into a chemist, not panicking, asking if there was any chance she could get an epi-pen over the counter. The chemist wasn't able to do this.

Her death was pinned on the chemist which was a disgrace - that poor man or woman.

But it does illustrate that a peanut allergy can kill, no matter what moronic things are said here to downplay that reality.

Actually, the daughter lay dying on the pavement nearby and the mother was utterly distraught and pleaded with the staff for an epi-pen.

Your sanitized recollection is as poor as the judgement of the Chemists staff.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/mothers-agony-as-teenage-girl-dies-from-peanut-allergy-on-city-street-29854519.html

09-10-2019 10:00pm

cnocbui wrote: »

Actually, the daughter lay dying on the pavement nearby and the mother was utterly distraught and pleaded with the staff for an epi-pen.

Your sanitized recollection is as poor as the judgement of the Chemists staff.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/mothers-agony-as-teenage-girl-dies-from-peanut-allergy-on-city-street-29854519.html

"A senior member of staff at the Hamilton Long pharmacy told the Irish Independent that they had been advised by gardai to make no public comment whatsoever about the incident.

A member of the pharmacy profession in Dublin later told this newspaper that regulations prohibit the dispensing of epipen injections without a prescription.

It is classed as an 'S1B' drug containing adrenaline and has the potential to do harm. Pharmacists are not allowed to give the injection"

that's the end of it, and appealling to that rag as your source does you little credit

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 09-10-2019 10:00pm

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Here is a video which explains it a bit further, very interesting

For people who already have it, there is a way to reverse the allergy by exposing them to micro-doses via exposure therapy...I think UCC do it

That’s very interesting! I think I heard about that, that they can be trained to deal with trace amounts.

wakka12 · 09-10-2019 10:04pm

Depends on the situation. I know a girl who will die if she comes into contact with nuts and obviously her class arent allowed to bring them because of that. If it puts a child in great danger of course it should be banned. You can eat all the nuts you like when you go home, theres no way for her or her family to accomodate that issue without homeschooling her so the other students just do the decent thing to help out

MeisterG · 09-10-2019 10:04pm

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Here is a video which explains it a bit further, very interesting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OXI17ye9Gw

For people who already have it, there is a way to reverse the allergy by exposing them to micro-doses via exposure therapy...I think UCC do it

Yep we have completed the treatment - it does not so much reverse the condition but increasing the threshold required for anaphylaxis to occur. It’s unfortunately extremely expensive (we did it in the UK - but the aim is to eventually roll it out in a wholesale fashion. The only problem is that it does not work for everyone and lots of kids get reactions so the doses are usually administered in a specialised clinic

cnocbui · 09-10-2019 10:05pm

Raconteuse wrote: »

Read about airborne nut allergies years ago.

Unreal selfishness on this thread.

The selfishness lies with the parents of the allergy suffererers. Plane loads of people and schools full of hundreds are all expected to cater to their child instead of them simply having their child wear a face mask.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 09-10-2019 10:06pm

Deleted User wrote: »

i think that there's been a huge move towards everyone in a wider group having to swerve around the needs (and often "needs") of small minorities.

there is a point where practicalities seem to have gone out the window for the sake of inclusion at any cost.

nut allergies are obviously potentially very serious, but if one child from many has such a sensitive condition is there a case that they have to be educated separately rather than everyone else making accommodation?

If it’s avoiding fucking death, what level of cunt would you have to be to have a problem with special precautions being taken? I cannot get my head around it. You’re making out like the people asking for precautions to be taken are being entitled when it’s the people pouting about being mildly inconvenienced who are by far the most self-absorbed people in this scenario.

Like I said earlier, I previously had a housemate with deadly allergies. It was very easy to accommodate her.

Samsgirl · 09-10-2019 10:06pm

Not having nuts won't kill your child but it may kill a child with an allergy.
That's good enough reason to ban them.

Mrs OBumble · 09-10-2019 10:08pm

road_high wrote: »

How we survived primary school from the late 80s to mid 90s without any of this namby pamby nanny state stuff is still a mystery to me. Allergies etc seemed to be almost unheard of

Funny, they existed in my primary school in the 70s. You's must have been well behind the curve.

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 09-10-2019 10:08pm

cnocbui wrote: »

The selfishness lies with the parents of the allergy suffererers. Plane loads of people and schools full of hundreds are all expected to cater to their child instead of them simply having their child wear a face mask.

Wow, I hope you are kidding because that's an astonishing attitude. What's the big deal, postpone eating nuts for a while so that someone doesn't die.

Educate yourself maybe, a face mask as protection isn't a risk I would take if one of my kids had a severe allergy.

screamer · 09-10-2019 10:09pm

Have you ever had an anaphylactic reaction? I have, so let me share. Your body shuts down you can’t breathe you can’t think your limbs don’t work you vomit you turn bright red, you can’t stand anymore, your legs don’t work, confusion sets in, and you accept you’re going to die as your body starts to shut down. If you have an epi pen and someone to administer it, it buys you time to get to hospital and you’re put into resuss with a crash cart in case your heart stops, strapped to drips and monitored for hours whilst your body is wracked by this reaction.

Now imagine that happens to a child. As an adult you can’t even inject yourself such is the instant chain reaction set off in your body.

A nut ban is a small ask for people who can literally die because of anaphylactic shock. It’s not an allergy it’s life or death and really unless you’ve had this near death experience yourself, you can’t imagine and hope you never have to.

c.p.w.g.w · 09-10-2019 10:13pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

That’s very interesting! I think I heard about that, that they can be trained to deal with trace amounts.

and over time its increased until the reaction is significantly reduced or gone...i girl in Bruff in Co Limerick was part of a trail in Cork and is pretty cured

wakka12 · 09-10-2019 10:15pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Billions of Monkey nuts handed out at Halloween years ago

Nobody died

Are you trying to say nut allergies dont exist or something?
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-45731201
Do you not remember the story of the teenage girl in England who died because of an allergic reaction to a pret a manger sandwich that didnt properly label it's ingredients?

'Her father, Nadim Ednan-Laperouse, said his daughter foamed at the mouth and couldn’t breathe, according to Sky News. The symptoms persisted though Nadim administered two EpiPen shots to Natasha and a doctor performed CPR for the rest of the flight, he said.'

I dont know how you could live with yourself for even allowing the possibility of this happening to a schoolmate of your child just so they can eat some nuts

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 09-10-2019 10:15pm

screamer wrote: »

Have you ever had an anaphylactic reaction? I have, so let me share. Your body shuts down you can’t breathe you can’t think your limbs don’t work you vomit you turn bright red, you can’t stand anymore, your legs don’t work, confusion sets in, and you accept you’re going to die as your body starts to shut down. If you have an epi pen and someone to administer it, it buys you time to get to hospital and you’re put into resuss with a crash cart in case your heart stops, strapped to drips and monitored for hours whilst your body is wracked by this reaction.

Now imagine that happens to a child. As an adult you can’t even inject yourself such is the instant chain reaction set off in your body.

A nut ban is a small ask for people who can literally die because of anaphylactic shock. It’s not an allergy it’s life or death.

That is terrifying, I trained in first aid and can see the trouble with delivering the epi pen especially under those circumstances.

iamwhoiam · 09-10-2019 10:16pm

screamer wrote: »

Have you ever had an anaphylactic reaction? I have, so let me share. Your body shuts down you can’t breathe you can’t think your limbs don’t work you vomit you turn bright red, you can’t stand anymore, your legs don’t work, confusion sets in, and you accept you’re going to die as your body starts to shut down. If you have an epi pen and someone to administer it, it buys you time to get to hospital and you’re put into resuss with a crash cart in case your heart stops, strapped to drips and monitored for hours whilst your body is wracked by this reaction.

Now imagine that happens to a child. As an adult you can’t even inject yourself such is the instant chain reaction set off in your body.

A nut ban is a small ask for people who can literally die because of anaphylactic shock. It’s not an allergy it’s life or death and really unless you’ve had this near death experience yourself, you can’t imagine and hope you never have to.
I find a lot of the replies ignorant here, but then ignorance is bliss. You’d be singing a different tune if you or one of your kids had this scourge.

All this is so true , been there . And in addition you have post traumatic stress and a terror of it happening again . Its a dreadful terror that can cause anxiety and a fear inside .
The ignorance from some posters here is astonishing . But my guess is some are simply looking for attention .

mikeecho · 09-10-2019 10:17pm

Markcheese wrote: »

Why wouldn't you?
A nut allergy can be a very serious thing, and kids can do stupid stuff...

There was no nut allergies in the 80s primary schools.

If there was.. they all died, and I never saw them after 1.30pm

iamwhoiam · 09-10-2019 10:18pm

mikeecho wrote: »

There was no nut allergies in the 80s primary schools.

If there was.. they all died, and I never saw them after 1.30pm

What an ignorant post

09-10-2019 10:19pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

If it’s avoiding fucking death, what level of cunt would you have to be to have a problem with special precautions being taken? I cannot get my head around it. You’re making out like the people asking for precautions to be taken are being entitled when it’s the people pouting about being mildly inconvenienced who are by far the most self-absorbed people in this scenario.

Like I said earlier, I previously had a housemate with deadly allergies. It was very easy to accommodate her.

nice

literally the question asked, and literally the point made, were about where the intersection of dangerous/sensitive conditions and the accommodations to be made by the wider population sit- and the assertion that the balance has in recent years advanced rapidly in favour of the individual

if its handy enough to eradicate risk to an acceptable degree then thats wonderful, the specific instance isnt a problem but therefore not a very interesting question

but at what stage not?

now kindly climb out of my ****in throat thanks

Calhoun · 09-10-2019 10:20pm

Fat fingered my response and hit no but can see the need for the ban especially if their are kids that are allergic. Would also be good guidance to have folks at the school trained to administer the e-pen thing.

screamer · 09-10-2019 10:21pm

iamwhoiam wrote: »

All this is so true , been there . And in addition you have post traumatic stress and a terror of it happening again . Its a dreadful terror that can cause anxiety and a fear inside .
The ignorance from some posters here is astonishing . But my guess is some are simply looking for attention .

And also, with each reoccurrence the anaphylactic reaction is stronger, so the more attacks you have the more likely you’ll be to die.
It’s horrendous and to inflict that on a child so another can scoff Nutella sandwiches beggars belief

Raconteuse · 09-10-2019 10:27pm

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Well, that and the fact the jobsworth chemist refused to handover an epi-pen that would have saved her life.

Blaming the chemist is absolutely appalling. Unless you work as a chemist, you can't know what you'd do in that situation. It's a case of can't not won't.

As if the chemist would be ok with her dying.

It's not simply a matter of "refused to hand over" as if it was vindictive.

Why not have an epi-pen handy at all times? Why eat at a restaurant which serves food containing peanuts? On the threads about it here - utter witch hunts of the poor chemist - woe betide people who asked those questions even though they are valid.

AulWan · 09-10-2019 10:29pm

There was an attempt to bring a case against the pharmacist afterwards but it was struck out.

Should nuts in school be banned for the small % who have "nut allergies"

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