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US diplomat's wife flees home claiming diplomatic immunity after fatal collision

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    #92
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,936 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Titzon Toast wrote: »
    The fact that she ran back to America says everything about the type of scummy person she is.

    I hope she gets what she deserves.

    That's not true at all. I wonder how many people would avoid a trial, likely conviction, criminal record and prison sentence, if they could?

    I doubt it means much. The only difference is the fact that she can actually get away with it.


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    #93
    mikhail
    Registered Users Posts: 3,863 ✭✭✭mikhail


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    That's not true at all. I wonder how many people would avoid a trial, likely conviction, criminal record and prison sentence, if they could?

    I doubt it means much. The only difference is the fact that she can actually get away with it.
    How many months' prison sentence would you ruin your partner's career to get out of?


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    #94
    joseywhales
    Registered Users Posts: 4,009 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    Any months


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    #95
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    Been thinking about this.

    How could you live with yourself not only for having done this and killed a young man. But to then run away from justice.
    When the whole world knows your name??

    She’s either the most stupid woman imaginable or she’s beyond that stuck up yank privileged wagon we keep hearing about


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    #96
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,936 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    mikhail wrote: »
    How many months' prison sentence would you ruin your partner's career to get out of?

    Depends. Maybe any months. His career is presumably over now anyway so I'd say I'd probably just skip prison if i had the choice. I'd say most people would skip prison if they could.


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    #97
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,936 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Stop moaning ffs wrote: »
    Been thinking about this.

    How could you live with yourself not only for having done this and killed a young man. But to then run away from justice.
    When the whole world knows your name??

    She’s either the most stupid woman imaginable or she’s beyond that stuck up yank privileged wagon we keep hearing about

    Yeah absolutely. Sleepless nights, PTSD etc. Miserable life ahead for that wan.


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    #98
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    shesty wrote: »
    Interestingly I see they are now saying that it has been confirmed the husband is not on the official diplomats list, and they seemed to be based at an intelligence base rather than a diplomatic one (if that's the right way to say it).

    Curiouser and curiouser....

    This is what I suggested a few pages back ,
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #99
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Yeah absolutely. Sleepless nights, PTSD etc. Miserable life ahead for that wan.

    And the lads family will suffer far more than that. Sleepless nights and ptsd doesn’t absolve her or running.
    What was she thinking? Dragging this out and made it far more serious and ugly by running away.


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    #100
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,872 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    mikhail wrote: »
    It's also there so a country can't quietly get rid of a diplomat they don't like (or someone they suspect of spying) by framing them for something.

    Any diplomat can be expelled at any time for no reason.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persona_non_grata
    Under Article 9 of the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations, a receiving state may "at any time and without having to explain its decision" declare any member of a diplomatic staff persona non grata. A person so declared is considered unacceptable and is usually recalled to his or her home nation. If not recalled, the receiving state "may refuse to recognize the person concerned as a member of the mission".

    Life ain't always empty.



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    #101
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,936 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Stop moaning ffs wrote: »
    And the lads family will suffer far more than that. Sleepless nights and ptsd doesn’t absolve her or running.
    What was she thinking? Dragging this out and made it far more serious and ugly by running away.

    Nothing would absolve her of what she did. Going to prison wouldn't absolve her either nor would it diminish the guys family's loss. He's still gone.

    I'm not trying to downplay anyone's pain. I just don't think many people would actually waive diplomatic immunity and go to prison if they had the choice to simply not go to prison.


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    #102
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Nothing would absolve her of what she did. Going to prison wouldn't absolve her either nor would it diminish the guys family's loss. He's still gone.

    I'm not trying to downplay anyone's pain. I just don't think many people would actually waive diplomatic immunity and go to prison if they had the choice to simply not go to prison.

    It would go a long way for you forgiving yourself if you gave yourself up and didn’t run away. It would also make your family back homes lives a lot more easier and your community and social circles far more forgiving if you stood up and took responsibility for your actions.

    She’s done none of these and ran.


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    #103
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,936 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Stop moaning ffs wrote: »
    It would go a long way for you forgiving yourself if you gave yourself up and didn’t run away. It would also make your family back homes lives a lot more easier and your community and social circles far more forgiving if you stood up and took responsibility for your actions.

    She’s done none of these and ran.

    Maybe. Maybe not.

    Prison isn't really meant to soothe the perpetrator's conscience. I doubt it has that effect.

    I'm sure she was briefed, as someone with diplomatic immunity, to just get the hell away from a legal situation if one arrises, get to tee US embassy (or diplomatic safe zone, and say nothing to anyone except the US consulate.

    Whatever chance she has of getting on with her life in the US, she has no chance of doing that while she's sitting in prison in the UK.

    Plus, her waiving DI and facing trial would set a precedent for other diplomats and I guarantee you she would be under fierce pressure from her own government to shut up and say nothing until it blows over. And it will blow over.

    It sounds like I'm making excuses for her. I'm really not. I would bet most people would just take the 'no prison' option over the 'prison' option.


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    #104
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Yeah absolutely. Sleepless nights, PTSD etc. Miserable life ahead for that wan.

    Not necessarily true though she could easily get on with her life without any impact on her ,

    We could all claim what she might suffer but she might not suffer anything ,
    Her life still goes on regardless of whether her social circle gets smaller , chances are she will have a core group of people telling her she done the right thing bailing and claiming immunity
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #105
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Maybe. Maybe not.

    Prison isn't really meant to soothe the perpetrator's conscience. I doubt it has that effect.

    I'm sure she was briefed, as someone with diplomatic immunity, to just get the hell away from a legal situation if one arrises, get to tee US embassy (or diplomatic safe zone, and say nothing to anyone except the US consulate.

    Whatever chance she has of getting on with her life in the US, she has no chance of doing that while she's sitting in prison in the UK.

    Plus, her waiving DI and facing trial would set a precedent for other diplomats and I guarantee you she would be under fierce pressure from her own government to shut up and say nothing until it blows over. And it will blow over.

    It sounds like I'm making excuses for her. I'm really not. I would bet most people would just take the 'no prison' option over the 'prison' option.

    The agency she or her husband were working for here is key. I’d say US intelligence are not happy about this and getting exposed.

    I reckon she’s just dragging it out by running home. Even if it was under advisement. She’s lucky we live in a moment to moment outrage culture. Nobody will remember about this in a week


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    #106
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,936 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Gatling wrote: »
    Not necessarily true though she could easily get on with her life without any impact on her ,

    We could all claim what she might suffer but she might not suffer anything ,
    Her life still goes on regardless of whether her social circle gets smaller , chances are she will have a core group of people telling her she done the right thing bailing and claiming immunity

    Maybe. Who knows?


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    #107
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,936 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Stop moaning ffs wrote: »
    The agency she or her husband were working for here is key. I’d say US intelligence are not happy about this and getting exposed.

    I reckon she’s just dragging it out by running home. Even if it was under advisement. She’s lucky we live in a moment to moment outrage culture. Nobody will remember about this in a week

    Nobody will remember it in a week. But if she stood trial we should be reminded every time there was a legal update and every day during the trial would be big news. And the sentence would discussed and debated and any time she applied for early release would be leaked to the press and when she's finally released it would be big news.

    The way to keep the story relatively small and much, much quicker way to make the story go away, is to go home and shut up.

    Her government would be furious with her if she waived DI. It would set a precedent her government doesn't want and the British government wouldn't want it either.

    Nobody wants her to do anything except go home and shut up - except normal people like you and me and normal people don't matter at the level of international security.


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    #108
    El Tarangu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭El Tarangu


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

    Her government would be furious with her if she waived DI. It would set a precedent her government doesn't want and the British government wouldn't want it either.

    I don't think it's her choice to waive it not or not; it would be the decision of the U.S. govt. Who have obviously told her to get out of Dodge and keep quiet.


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    #109
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Bit hypocritical that a country that had thousands in trafalgar square calling for immunity for Soldier F is now looking to revoke immunity for a foreign national.


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    #110
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,936 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    El Tarangu wrote: »
    I don't think it's her choice to waive it not or not; it would be the decision of the U.S. govt. Who have obviously told her to get out of Dodge and keep quiet.

    Yeah most likely. This isn't at the level of the individual. It's at the international level.

    We're Individuals so we see it in those terms but the governments see it completely differently.


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    #111
    Topgear on Dave
    Registered Users Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Bit hypocritical that a country that had thousands in trafalgar square calling for immunity for Soldier F is now looking to revoke immunity for a foreign national.

    It was the first thing I thought of when I saw this on the news....


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    #112
    c.p.w.g.w
    Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    Stop moaning ffs wrote: »
    Been thinking about this.

    How could you live with yourself not only for having done this and killed a young man. But to then run away from justice.
    When the whole world knows your name??

    She’s either the most stupid woman imaginable or she’s beyond that stuck up yank privileged wagon we keep hearing about

    Sure Caitlin Jenner killed someone when they were Bruce, but get a sex change and it's now transphopic to mention the murderous act that piece sh!t perpetrated. They are getting on just fine after killing someone


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    #113
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,872 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Nothing would absolve her of what she did. Going to prison wouldn't absolve her either nor would it diminish the guys family's loss. He's still gone.

    So what's the point of having a justice system at all then?

    Life ain't always empty.



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    #114
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,936 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    So what's the point of having a justice system at all then?

    We have a justice system for lots of reasons. There are 4 main reasons. Punishment, deterrent, restoration and public safety.

    There isn't really a justice system for people with diplomatic Immunity though. And this woman is one of those people


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    #115
    mikhail
    Registered Users Posts: 3,863 ✭✭✭mikhail


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Any diplomat can be expelled at any time for no reason.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persona_non_grata
    Yep. The key word in my post was quietly.


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    #116
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,936 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    James o brien is discussing it on LBC at the moment.

    The family has appealed for her to come back and face justice. They said they don't mind if she faces a lesser charge or avoids prison (the family wouldn't have any real influence over the charge she faces it the sentence)

    Her family live in Virginia near the CIA headquarters so a CIA link is implied.

    It's very sad but nothing is going to change. She's beyond the reach of UK criminal law and that's the end of it.


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    #117
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,631 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Trump ain’t gonna do ****

    https://www.snopes.com/ap/2019/10/10/trump-says-accidents-happen-in-crash-by-diplomats-wife/


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    #118
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Thankfully he made a hash of the brief so we got some insight. They don't give a f***.
    Another of Mr Trump’s talking points said it would be up to the woman involved whether to talk to British investigators.

    “(If raised) Note the spouse of the US government employee will have to consider, based on the advice of her legal counsel, whether to make herself available for questioning by British authorities,” the note said.

    However, when asked about the case at the press event, Mr Trump did not read from the notes, but improvised without giving a straight answer.
    “It is a very complex issue as you know,” the president said, in a rambling reply. “So a young man was killed. The person that was driving the automobile, has diplomatic immunity. We’re going to speak to her very shortly and see if we can do something. It was an accident? We’re going to speak to her and see what we can come up with so there can be some healing.”
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/trump-says-woman-wanted-over-uk-crash-death-will-be-spoken-to-1.4046194


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    #119
    Torsevt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 45 ✭Torsevt


    Turns out she doesn't have immunity


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    #120
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,936 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Torsevt wrote: »
    Turns out she doesn't have immunity

    Says who?


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    #121
    Torsevt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 45 ✭Torsevt


    Its been on 5 live , seems official


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