Do you believe in God?

Wibbs · 28-09-2019 10:24am

Squall Leonhart wrote: »

Look, I'm not disagreeing with you that the odds are astronomical. Most people who do the lotto don't expect to win either.

But, winning the lottery, however unlikely, is factually possible, happens most weeks for someone.

+1. I never got this "winning the lotto is less likely than a plane falling on you etc". I give two fecks about the maths(which I suspect are highly dubious), because as you point out on a near weekly basis someone goes and wins on it, yet there isn't a weekly occurrence of people picking bits of airbus, or meteorite outa their lightning frazzled hair.

fisgon · 28-09-2019 10:27am

One eyed Jack wrote: »

.

This is bollocks, frankly. Individuals are responsible for their own attitudes and behaviours towards other people. The Church isn’t responsible for any crimes, it’s the small number of individuals within the Church who are responsible for committing the most heinous crimes against individuals since the State got independence. .

No, this is bollocks. The idea that the church, and the ideology that it represents, is not responsible for the crimes committed is frankly delusional.

It is not just down to individuals - this is the "few bad apples" argument that the church itself uses to wash its hands of the awful things it was responsible for. It's like saying that the purges in the old USSR, the political prisoners, the gulags and the oppression of citizens had nothing to do with communism - it was just a few individuals who ruined it for everyone.

Wibbs · 28-09-2019 10:36am

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It’s not obviously he latter.

But if it was the latter, and life needs an intelligent universe to create it, doesn’t the intelligent universe “obviously” need an intelligent creator and doesn’t that creator obviously need a creator? And so on and so on?

One could take another angle and consider the Gaia principle and extend it universe wide. That reality itself is kinda analogous to a "living" system, that is born from a "previous" universe, grows, matures and dies and in that lifecycle sets up the conditions for intelligent life that springs up rarely but enough times that at least one such lifeform will be intelligent enough to build other universes in a lab and reproduce itself and off it goes again. Universes that don't have those conditions never reproduce.

The big problem with creation and before and after is that those concepts themselves only came into being at least for those observing from within the fishbowl that is our reality when the universe came into being in the big bang. There is no "before", no "outside" from our point of view. That doesn't mean there isn't a before from another point of view, but I can't see how that will ever be knowable.

uck51js9zml2yt · 28-09-2019 10:42am

HappyAsLarE wrote: »

Nobody believes in God. If they did believe there was a all knowing being that would judge us at the end for our sins then they would be much better people.

I know God doesn’t exist, but I try to live like he does.

Are you inaccurate much or do you just pretend to be?

I believe in God.

He won't judge us for our sins, He'll judge us for not believing in His Son.
When we do that, He starts a process that transforms us and gives us hope in this life and the next.

Montage of Feck · 28-09-2019 10:45am

God is a personification of the unknownable mysteries of the universe.

Canis Lupus · 28-09-2019 10:46am

Taliyah Vast Gofer wrote: »

Are you inaccurate much or do you just pretend to be?

I believe in God.

He won't judge us for our sins, He'll judge us for not believing in His Son.
When we do that, He starts a process that transforms us and gives us hope in this life and the next.

Quite a random thing to judge us by and it's going to be awkward for all those souls who through the lottery of birth were raised in a non abrahamic religions.

Guy:Incognito · 28-09-2019 10:54am

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It’s not obviously he latter.

But if it was the latter, and life needs an intelligent universe to create it, doesn’t the intelligent universe “obviously” need an intelligent creator and doesn’t that creator obviously need a creator? And so on and so on?

What does an “intelligent universe” even mean anyway?

God is put forward as infallible and omnipotent.

If such a being was the creator, we should be at our peak since the beginning . How are humans still having new ideas?

Ultrflat · 28-09-2019 10:55am

Taliyah Vast Gofer wrote: »

Are you inaccurate much or do you just pretend to be?

I believe in God.

He won't judge us for our sins, He'll judge us for not believing in His Son.
When we do that, He starts a process that transforms us and gives us hope in this life and the next.

Surely if he created human beings, he would know were inquisitive creatures who do not all think a like. If that's the case why would he judge his own creation? To do that would be to judge himself, there for it would be very hypocritical to throw his creation in hell. Given the fact he made us.

Upforthematch · 28-09-2019 10:57am

Do I believe in God? Yes I do.

Prayer is important to me. I like reading history and prayer has been important to most cultures I've read about.

When I pray I feel like I am participating in one of the most fundamental human impulses there is. It's up there with the urge to eat, procreate, kill, love and so on!

Which God do I pray to? I pray to the God who listens to me! And I believe that God is Jesus.

Guy:Incognito · 28-09-2019 10:57am

Ultrflat wrote: »

there for it would be very hypocritical to throw his creation in hell. Given the fact he made us.

To be fair, he does seem to love a bit of torturing. its one of the things that make him so good apparently.

Also, a great number of the people he personally created seem to be evil and worthy of condemnation (gay people, other religions etc) . He doesn't seem to be very good at the old creating.

branie2 · 28-09-2019 10:58am

I believe in God

Guy:Incognito · 28-09-2019 10:59am

Upforthematch wrote: »

Do I believe in God? Yes I do.

Prayer is important to me. I like reading history and prayer has been important to most cultures I've read about.

When I pray I feel like I am participating in one of the most fundamental human impulses there is. It's up there with the urge to eat, procreate, kill, love and so on!

Which God do I pray to? I pray to the God who listens to me! And I believe that God is Jesus.

If he listens to you, why have bad things happened to you?

One eyed Jack · 28-09-2019 11:02am

fisgon wrote: »

No, this is bollocks. The idea that the church, and the ideology that it represents, is not responsible for the crimes committed is frankly delusional.

The crimes you’re alluding to were committed by individuals. The Catholic Church has never represented an ideology that suggests it is morally acceptable for it’s members to rape children for example. So the idea of holding 2bn people responsible for the small number of degenerate fcuks that commit rape is using a non-representative sample size to argue your point. There are a small number of non-representative feminists who try and use the same logic to argue that “rape culture” is a thing in Western society, when the statistics suggest that the number of men who actually commit rape is 7% of men, hardly a representative sample. The percentage of people within the Catholic Church who commit rape against children hovers somewhere around the 4% mark according to most research that has been done on the issue. That’s just one crime, and the figures for other crimes which you can associate with members of the Catholic Church would be in similar single digit figures. The way you’re talking, what you’re doing is literally blowing something out of proportion and using guilt by association to associate crimes with an ideology, when those crimes are not at all in any way supported or encouraged by that ideology.

That sort of argument flies in the face of our judicial system where we hold individuals responsible for their crimes, rather than maintaining that a group of people are responsible for criminal acts committed by individuals. It’s a good thing too our judicial system works like that as opposed to a delusional argument that people are guilty of criminal actions by associating them with people who have been found guilty of having committed criminal acts.

fisgon wrote: »

It is not just down to individuals - this is the "few bad apples" argument that the church itself uses to wash its hands of the awful things it was responsible for. It's like saying that the purges in the old USSR, the political prisoners, the gulags and the oppression of citizens had nothing to do with communism - it was just a few individuals who ruined it for everyone.

Well, it was just a few individuals who ruined it for everyone. That’s exactly my point. Your perspective is “Reds under the bed” style stuff - fearmongering, suspicion and paranoid nonsense. I’m not going to go so far as to say you’re delusional though, I just don’t share your perspective is all.

Guy:Incognito · 28-09-2019 11:07am

One eyed Jack wrote: »

The crimes you’re alluding to were committed by individuals. The Catholic Church has never represented an ideology that suggests it is morally acceptable for it’s members to rape children for example..

Is it not dogma that the pope is infallible?

Can you say with certainty that the vatican, and the various popes, knew nothing of anything that was going on anywhere? No rumours ever got back? They never questioned anything going on? Never wondered why various ranks within the hierarchy in various countries were moved around all the time?

It doesnt have to be policy to rape children for the organisation to be responsible.

smacl · 28-09-2019 11:07am

nthclare wrote: »

I believe in Love

Thats it in a nutshell, but being an agnostic I've come across more atheists being **** than religious people on these forums.

Atheist's don't ask you first which God you believe in ?

They just automatically have their mind's made up before the argument...sky faires, and bashing the church and the crusade's don't forget burning the witches...

if there was different Gods I'd consider the Abrahamic God a sand demon from the middle East
It's far from being an all loving entity, he's a right bipolar prick...

I'd rather the pagan god's myself, more in touch with the earth and humanity.

So you believe in love, call atheists **** for ridiculing the Christian god and then go to call their god a bipolar prick? Right.... :rolleyes:

Upforthematch · 28-09-2019 11:09am

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

If he listens to you, why have bad things happened to you?

I don't know the answer to that.

Bad, and sometimes really awful, things happen to those who do and don't pray.

Awful things happened to Jesus as well and I happen to believe he is God!

As I said prayer is a very human impulse. Whether it is a prayer of thanks for the good things or a prayer of petition to help with the bad things I do believe God listens.

However, I guess you could also say I don't believe heaven is a place on Earth.

Micky 32 · 28-09-2019 11:10am

No.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 28-09-2019 11:13am

yosser hughes wrote: »

I have a question for you OP. You say you believe in God, light candles for people etc. So you must believe therefore that God can intervene in our lives? Do you also believe then that God is all seeing?
Do you live your life believing God can see what you do?

'So you must believe therefore...'

That's a very big assumption you've made from my post. I don't believe there is an all seeing God.

We're here for a reason though. Not 'everything happens for a reason'. But we are here. So I'm happy to concede that a God made this life occur.

Guy:Incognito · 28-09-2019 11:16am

It's fairly telling that plenty of people who profess to believe are unwilling to discuss their belief, as if it wont stand up to scrutiny.

Again, its a very religious position to take.
"this is the way things are"
"why, what about this?"
"because we say so"

Funnily enough, when things like the referendums on same sex marriage or the 8th amendment were ongoing , they were full of debate.

They are clearly reading the thread as they are thanking posts......

basillarkin · 28-09-2019 11:19am

Montage of Feck wrote: »

Maybe God just doesn't give a **** or follows a non interventionist policy.

then why call him god

One eyed Jack · 28-09-2019 11:22am

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Is it not dogma that the pope is infallible?

It is, but that dogma is associated with Canon Law, not Civil Law.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Can you say with certainty that the vatican, and the various popes, knew nothing of anything that was going on anywhere? No rumours ever got back? They never questioned anything going on? Never wondered why various ranks within the hierarchy in various countries were moved around all the time?

I could of course say all those things with certainty. I could make all sorts of allegations against anyone I wanted to. In order for those people to be found guilty of anything though, I would have to provide evidence for my belief that they are guilty of having committed the crimes of which they are accused. Otherwise the allegations are simply meaningless and I wouldn’t entertain an allegation without sufficient supporting evidence to put a person on trial accusing them of committing a criminal offence. Simply making an allegation against a person isn’t sufficient evidence to find that person guilty of committing the criminal act which they are accused of.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

It doesnt have to be policy to rape children for the organisation to be responsible.

It does if you expect your allegations should be taken seriously.

Ultrflat · 28-09-2019 11:25am

I believe in dog

Disclaimer poster maybe dyslexic.

RiderOnTheStorm · 28-09-2019 11:32am

You can believe in God without supporting the various organised religions.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 28-09-2019 11:37am

I’m very torn about God. I so want to believe that God exists and there is an afterlife in which we’ll all be united with loved ones again but there are more reasons not to believe in God. War, famine, disease, murder, rape/abuse of children and so on. I know the church has explained that away by saying God gave man free will to live his/her life as they wished and does not intervene in humankind’s actions yet the same church declares miracles as acts of God for a very tiny amount of people so why does he help them and not billions of others. Miracles do happen but they’re random acts of the universe and not caused or created by any God.

My dad died 20 years ago and more than anything else in this universe I want to be with him again (when I die) and for that reason I struggle with my faith and search desperately for reasons to believe in God.

The White Wolf · 28-09-2019 11:43am

fisgon wrote: »

I haven't believed in a god for 20 years. My life is much better for having let go of the superstition, delusion, ignorance and pointless guilt.

Guilt was never really an issue for me even when I had belief. Makes me wonder what some of you are up to.

uptherebels · 28-09-2019 11:46am

One eyed Jack wrote: »

This is bollocks, frankly. Individuals are responsible for their own attitudes and behaviours towards other people. The Church isn’t responsible for any crimes, it’s the small number of individuals within the Church who are responsible for committing the most heinous crimes against individuals since the State got independence. Suicide bombers too are a minority within their religion (you’re using the guilt by association fallacy I mentioned earlier), and I could just as easily use the same argument to pose the question - how many people’s lives are destroyed when someone chooses to take their own life? How much suffering is caused? You’ll find that there is a strong correlation between people who are of the belief that there should be no stigma attached to the idea of a person choosing to take their own life, and the people who attempt to condemn other people who they see as wanting to make people suffer.

Utter nonsense from you again Pete. The church is the people, hat make up its membership. The church moved priests around allowing them to commit crimes elsewhere. A small number of church members committed crimes but they were abetted by the majority especially by the higher ups.

the beer revolu · 28-09-2019 11:52am

Ultrflat wrote: »

I believe in dog
Disclaimer poster maybe dyslexic.

If there was a god, he would have removed that unoriginal, unfunny thought from your head before you posted it.

TheRepentent · 28-09-2019 11:54am

No, you have to be a special type of stupid to swallow that sh1te.Grown aldults worshipping a reanimated corpse is mental.

As for the RCC apologists..go away , you haven't a leg to stand on...the church actively facilitated and protected child abusers end of story.

Church on Tuesday · 28-09-2019 11:59am

Only on a Tuesday.

One eyed Jack · 28-09-2019 11:59am

uptherebels wrote: »

Utter nonsense from you again Pete. The church is the people, hat make up its membership. The church moved priests around allowing them to commit crimes elsewhere. A small number of church members committed crimes but they were abetted by the majority especially by the higher ups.

Might you be confusing me with someone else?

To your point though - you’re again conflating “the Church” with “people who are guilty of aiding and abetting criminals”. They’re not even close to being the same thing. Draw a Venn diagram and there would be a very small intersection between the two groups. You even admit as much yourself when you acknowledge that a small number of church members committed crimes (we’re agreed on that much), but then you go completely off the reservation to try and tar the majority of members of the Catholic Church, before coming back to again acknowledging that it was “the higher ups” (and I would suggest only a minority among the higher ups), who aided and abetted and facilitated criminal behaviour among a minority of it’s members.

The argument is as dumb as suggesting that the majority of rapes are committed by men, therefore all men are guilty of committing rape, and if men don’t buy into the whole “rape culture” nonsense, they’re aiding, abetting and facilitating the minority of men who commit rape. I’d tell anyone to fcuk off with that kind of shìte if they tried to associate me with rapists solely by virtue of the fact that we share one trait in common.

Do you believe in God?

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