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15-04-2019, 17:53   #61
Dick phelan
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Antisemitism seems to come from a few angles atm

1 From the far right Neo Nazi types, skinheads ect

2 From the far left communist leaning types like you see in the Labor Party in England and people in the US like Ilhan Omar.

3 From members of other religious groups historically christian but no mostly Muslims.

Either way it's an evil and despicable trend regardless of who it comes from, As mentioned by others if you actually visit a concentration camp to see all those baby shoes, suitcases etc knowing what happened to those people it makes you have some sympathy as to why Israel might act the way they do given Jewish history.
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15-04-2019, 17:55   #62
OMM 0000
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Jews are my favourite group of people (smart, successful), but the politics of Israel is really, really messed up.

I find it hard to fathom how badly they treat the Palestinians.
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15-04-2019, 18:05   #63
Igotadose
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Originally Posted by Dick phelan View Post
Antisemitism seems to come from a few angles atm


3 From members of other religious groups historically christian but no mostly Muslims.
Not sure about 'no(w) mostly' Muslims. The far right and lefty radical types you mention likely claim to be part of religious groups, and there's plenty of antisemitism still coming from so-called Christian groups. Ilhan Omar may or may not be antisemitic, I'm willing to give her benefit of the doubt right now, she's said nothing worse than, say, George W. Bush or Donald Trump (Trump recently said "Your prime minister" when talking about Netanyahu at a Republican Jewish event.)

But the rise in antisemitism in Europe (this thread) isn't due to Moslem's in Europe. It's the good-old Christian-rooted antisemitism rampant in Eastern Europe (cf. the OP talking about Jews in Romania). Not sure if it's a rise, exactly - it's never gone away, even the horrors of the Holocaust aren't enough to dissuade the haters.

Last edited by Igotadose; 15-04-2019 at 18:18.
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15-04-2019, 18:10   #64
Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull
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I'd say most people have zero problem with Jew's, Jewish culture, traditions etc. They just have a serious problem with that apartheid State we call Israel. You can be anti-israeli government and not be anti-Semitic
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15-04-2019, 18:16   #65
The Rape of Lucretia
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Question for a grammar Nazi : does one refer to the supporting no prejudicial towards jews as "semitism", or "pro-semitism" ?
As in, "that Jeremy Corbin, he's a real semite".
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15-04-2019, 18:27   #66
OMM 0000
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Question for a grammar Nazi : does one refer to the supporting no prejudicial towards jews as "semitism", or "pro-semitism" ?
As in, "that Jeremy Corbin, he's a real semite".
Semite means Jew.

So anti-Semite just means anti-jew.

If you're pro jew, you'd typically say pro-Israel.

I know this makes no sense.
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15-04-2019, 18:30   #67
1641
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Originally Posted by Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull View Post
I'd say most people have zero problem with Jew's, Jewish culture, traditions etc. They just have a serious problem with that apartheid State we call Israel. You can be anti-israeli government and not be anti-Semitic

People can certainly be critical of the Israeli government - I certainly would be critical of many of their actions and policies. So are many Jews.
The complication is that there are also many who conceal their anti-semitism within criticism of Israel - or demonisation of Israel. There seems to be no acceptance that Israel faces an existential threat. Hamas is at best ambivalent about Israel's right to exist and its charter id blatantly anti semitic ,eg



Article 22 Of the Hamas Charter states that the French Revolution, the Russian Revolution, colonialism and both world wars were created by the Zionists or forces supportive of Zionism: "You may speak as much as you want about regional and world wars. They were behind World War I, when they were able to destroy the Islamic Caliphate, making financial gains and controlling resources. They obtained the Balfour Declaration, formed the League of Nations through which they could rule the world. They were behind World War II, through which they made huge financial gains by trading in armaments, and paved the way for the establishment of their state. It was they who instigated the replacement of the League of Nations with the United Nations and the Security Council to enable them to rule the world through them. There is no war going on anywhere, without having their finger in".


In an interview on Lebanese television on July 28, 2014, Hamas spokesman Osama Hamdan repeated the blood libel myth:
We all remember how the Jews used to slaughter Christians, in order to mix their blood in their holy matzos... It happened everywhere"


And as regards the Holocaust:
"This conference bears a clear Zionist goal, aimed at forging history by hiding the truth about the so-called Holocaust, which is an alleged and invented story with no basis. (...) The invention of these grand illusions of an alleged crime that never occurred, ignoring the millions of dead European victims of Nazism during the war, clearly reveals the racist Zionist face, which believes in the superiority of the Jewish race over the rest of the nations. (...) By these methods, the Jews in the world flout scientific methods of research whenever that research contradicts their racist interests."


If people balance their valid criticism of Israel with criticism of others then it is not anti-semitic.
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15-04-2019, 18:31   #68
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If the Romanian jews want to relocate here, they should be given priority as genuine cases ahead of the bogus element in our direct provision centres.
There is no need.
Note that majority of Romanian Jews have already emigrated to Israel before 1989 (~400K living there today); reason being ...Ceausescu was selling this access to move to Israel based on ethnic background: The sources said Israel paid between $2,000 and $50,000 per exit visa, but on special occasions - depending on the person's profession or family status - fees reached $250,000.

Also, have few good friends of Jewish origin that live perfectly happy in Romania, while keeping close connections with extended family in Israel or Romania - why would they move here ?
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15-04-2019, 18:49   #69
suicide_circus
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Originally Posted by OMM 0000 View Post
Jews are my favourite group of people (smart, successful), but the politics of Israel is really, really messed up.

I find it hard to fathom how badly they treat the Palestinians.
Israeli settlement policy really is the Achilles heel of most of the otherwise logical and peaceful jews you meet or hear on the media. they cant bring themselves to condemn what is obviously a mistake and many will instantly reach for the antisemitism card.

now, that said, if my country were, like Israel, surrounded by people who wanted us wiped off the map, i would indeed support a very aggressive defence policy.

ask yourself this. If Hamas had access to the weapons and equipment that the IDF have, what do you think would happen to Israel? It would have been incinerated. And yet the IDF have the means to wipe out the Palestinians but they have not done so.
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15-04-2019, 18:52   #70
The Rape of Lucretia
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Originally Posted by OMM 0000 View Post
If you're pro jew, you'd typically say pro-Israel.

I know this makes no sense.
Not really. Surely one can be pro-jews, but not necessarily pro-Israel, or even anti-Israel. One can be fully tolerant of all religions, but against the creation of a religious state, an event I still find shocking to have happened in such recent history.
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15-04-2019, 18:55   #71
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ask yourself this. If Hamas had access to the weapons and equipment that the IDF have, what do you think would happen to Israel? It would have been incinerated. And yet the IDF have the means to wipe out the Palestinians but they have not done so.
I don't believe Hamas would incinerate Israel if they had the chance.

There is no evidence to suggest that would be the case.

I feel Hamas are desperate, but I don't think they're suicidal. Trying to wipe Israel off the map would lead to their destruction.
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15-04-2019, 19:03   #72
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Israel is constantly breaking international law and stealing land. They need to make peace or in the least simply stop annexing the lands of others. If they don't recognise Palestine they need cop the f*** on. It's there, what they've left of it. They can't cry about being wiped off the map when they re-draw it on a daily basis.

Noticed this the other day. From Raiders of the Lost Ark.

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15-04-2019, 19:04   #73
hatrickpatrick
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Originally Posted by Dick phelan View Post
2 From the far left communist leaning types like you see in the Labor Party in England and people in the US like Ilhan Omar.
Again, can you point to specific instances of remarks or actions from these entities which target Jews as a people and not specifically Israel or politicians / lobbyists who advocate in favour of Israel?

Quote:
Either way it's an evil and despicable trend regardless of who it comes from, As mentioned by others if you actually visit a concentration camp to see all those baby shoes, suitcases etc knowing what happened to those people it makes you have some sympathy as to why Israel might act the way they do given Jewish history.
I'm sorry, but nothing justifies stealing what doesn't belong to you, and then getting violent when the victim attempts to reclaim it. Nothing.
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15-04-2019, 19:13   #74
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next to tons of human hair and other human parts that were used in a lucrative soap and cosmetic industry of all things.
Considering we've been discussing the daft myths and BS around Jewish people I have to point out that the Jews into soap idea is a complete myth. It actually kicked off as a rumour in World War One about Germany turning their own people into soap, then it kicked off again in World War two, rumour and propaganda and boogyman type whispers. One maker of soap in Germany had initials stamped into the bars that some were convinced translated into "made from Jews" or something like that, but it was just the company name in initials(IIRC it was made from industrial processes and contained no animal products, human or not). The whole turning camp prisoners with tattoos into lampshades and the like, also a myth.
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15-04-2019, 19:29   #75
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I don't think Bibi is doing many favours in the long run either for the Jewish people with his courting of extreme evangelical groups
Using them for their cash, money that they have plenty of. If we had a monument here that they all decided to flock to in their droves, we'd take their money also. Knew evangelical Christians in Houston who sent part of their tithe, first 10% of their income, to Israel, via their church. Fools and their money .... Plenty of things to criticise Bibi for, wouldn't blame him for doing that.

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Anti Semitism has no meaning any more since the Israeli state use it excuse murdering children and innocent people.
It does. Giving people carte blanche to engage in anti-Semitic behaviour just because the Israeli state does wrong is not right. Your average Jewish person in central or Eastern Europe has nothing to do with the Israeli state more often than not.

Last edited by Berserker; 15-04-2019 at 19:34.
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