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12-04-2019, 16:31   #31
is_that_so
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If you're being bullied because of your color, sexual orientation, religion, disability, or any other difference, that is the definition of a hate crime.

She was assaulted because she's a dwarf. It's not the worst hate crime imaginable but it fits the description.
A definition of a hate crime requires violence. There was extreme harassment, bullying and very anti-social behaviour here.
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12-04-2019, 16:31   #32
padd b1975
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You'd have to admit there is a hint of Monty Python about it, but of course in the age of perpetual victimhood the reaction was only going to go one way.
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12-04-2019, 16:32   #33
the beer revolu
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You can’t compare what happened to you and the lady in the article IMHO, you were physically lifted, I’d go as far as to say assaulted. Nobody actually interfered with that lady, they didn’t touch her.



It’s not a hate crime, no hatred was shown towards her, nobody tried to incite hatred. Two young fellas had a laugh at her expense alright, but that was it. Had they touched her, verbally abused her etc., then you’d have a point.
You don't have to touch someone to assault them, as I understand it.
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12-04-2019, 16:32   #34
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Originally Posted by Candie View Post
If you're being bullied because of your color, sexual orientation, religion, disability, or any other difference, that is the definition of a hate crime.
I don't agree. A hate crime is if you pathologically hate all dwarves, gays, or whatever your weird idea is and you want nothing better than to attack and kill those people. I doubt those two scrotes had a pathological hatred of dwarves and wanted them wiped from the surface of the planet.

Bullying is making yourself feel superior by inflicting pain on others. There is an important distinction. In 2019 everything is pushed to the maximum possible worst interpretation.

Pretty much all bullying is a hate crime under your interpretation.
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12-04-2019, 16:32   #35
Candie
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It’s not a hate crime, no hatred was shown towards her, nobody tried to incite hatered. Two young fellas had a laugh at her expense alright, but that was it. Had they touched her, verbally abused her etc., then you’d have a point.
Ah Dougal, I can see a lot of similarities. They humiliated her and frightened her and the poor girl was very upset and now the spectre of it happening again will stay with her.

I'm not saying it's the worst crime ever, but it does fit the legal description. It just wouldn't have happened her if she wasn't different - but what it's called is the least important thing about it. I hope she's okay.

Last edited by Candie; 12-04-2019 at 16:36.
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12-04-2019, 16:33   #36
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You don't have to touch someone to assault them, as I understand it.
Correct. Battery is actually hitting them.
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12-04-2019, 16:33   #37
is_that_so
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You don't have to touch someone to assault them, as I understand it.
Do you have an Irish legal definition from somewhere that supports this?
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12-04-2019, 16:34   #38
is_that_so
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Originally Posted by soupandpoitin View Post
Correct. Battery is actually hitting them.
Here's a general definition.
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An assault is the act of inflicting physical harm or unwanted physical contact upon a person or, in some specific legal definitions, a threat or attempt to commit such an action. It is both a crime and a tort and, therefore, may result in either criminal and/or civil liability.
And our one

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1...nacted/en/html
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12-04-2019, 16:35   #39
Candie
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Originally Posted by is_that_so View Post
A definition of a hate crime requires violence. There was extreme harassment, bullying and very anti-social behaviour here.
The lady was assaulted, as per the definition. It is a hate crime, perpetrated because of the group she belongs to, as per the definition.

I'm not saying I agree with the term, I am just saying that the crime fits the legal definition. It's not an opinion, it's a fact.
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12-04-2019, 16:35   #40
soupandpoitin
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What is hate crime?
‘Any incident which is perceived by the victim or any other person as being motivated by hate, based on a person’s age, race, ethnicity, religious belief, gender identity, disability, or sexual orientation’ .

https://www.garda.ie/en/Crime/Hate-c...te-crime-.html

I don't believe these two assholes were motivated by hate. Just motivated by being scrotes. If they hated her they would have done a LOT more than just jump over her and laugh.
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12-04-2019, 16:36   #41
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Originally Posted by Candie View Post
If you're being bullied because of your color, sexual orientation, religion, disability, or any other difference, that is the definition of a hate crime.

She was assaulted because she's a dwarf. It's not the worst hate crime imaginable but it fits the description.
The two young lads don't hate her. They enjoyed causing her pain. The little feeling of power in humiliating her. They didn't give her enough thought to hate her, even dislike her.

You can't educate that out of someone either. Not in a class room anyway. Life might evolve such a creature. Possibly through them being on the receiving end of a bit of pain. Then on the extreme end of the scale are people who aren't capable of feeling empathy at all. Modern research telling us such types are quite often high achieving.

Giving others advise on how to deal with bad people and bad sh1t will probably just sound trite. Great minds through history have had a lot to say on it but it's all easier said than done. There's no easy answer.
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12-04-2019, 16:36   #42
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There is a serious issue around that area of Dublin with general crime etc. that has been ignored for many years. Stand around there for a while and you'll see people dealing, injecting in side streets, passed out drunk, shouting at passers by or attempting to snatch handbags and phones. I don't see it as a hate crime but as a social and policing issue with that particular part of Dublin which is an unruly kip.
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12-04-2019, 16:37   #43
soupandpoitin
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Originally Posted by Candie View Post
The lady was assaulted, as per the definition. It is a hate crime, perpetrated because of the group she belongs to, as per the definition.

I'm not saying I agree with the term, I am just saying that the crime fits the legal definition. It's not an opinion, it's a fact.
It doesn't fit the legal definition.

‘Any incident which is perceived by the victim or any other person as being motivated by hate, based on a person’s age, race, ethnicity, religious belief, gender identity, disability, or sexual orientation’ .


https://www.garda.ie/en/Crime/Hate-c...te-crime-.html
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12-04-2019, 16:38   #44
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It's not a hate crime.


And anyway, the idea of a hate crime is bullsh1t. It's either a crime or it's not a crime.
The idea with a hate crime is that it's motivated by racism or something like that. YOu get beaten up. that's a crime. You get beaten up because of your race, ethnicity, whatever, that's a hate crime.

And there's a huge range of seriousness of hate crimes. So no-one is saying that what the woman in the OP experiences is the same as a lynching.

Now, do you think that people should be free to insult every black person they walk past with racial abuse? It's only verbal and no physical assault takes place. Or if someone was jewish, or arab or whatever. Should it be legal to racially abuse them?

Now, if you said yes, what's the difference between them and a little person?
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12-04-2019, 16:39   #45
soupandpoitin
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You can't educate that out of someone either. Not in a class room anyway.
There is only one way to "educate" people like that, but it's very illegal.
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