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The Triassic reptile weirdness thread

  • 15-01-2010 7:48pm
    #1
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Interesting article suggesting that more efficent lungs gave the ancestors of dinosaurs (archosaurs) the edge over mammilian ancestors (synapsids) in the low oxygen Triassic world.
    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/01/100114-alligators-dinosaurs-birds-lungs-breathing/

    Dinosaurs' superior lungs may have allowed them to outcompete early mammals, according to a new study of modern-day alligators.

    Scientists found that a method of high-efficiency breathing used by birds is also employed by today's alligators, which share a common ancestor with dinosaurs.

    In mammals, each fresh breath carries oxygen-rich air to "cul-de-sacs" in the lungs called alveoli.

    Air circulating through these sacs transfers oxygen into the bloodstream that picks up the blood's carbon dioxide waste.

    But birds don't have alveoli. Instead, the air flows in one direction into the birds' air sacs.

    This adaptation keeps birds' lungs filled with "fresh" air, allowing them to breathe at altitudes that would kill other animals.

    If I may speculate, add in the subsequent invention of warm bloodedness to the dinosaur lineage sometime after the split with the crocodilians and you have a recipe for world domination.


«1

Comments

  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,065 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    I thought oxygen levels were higher then than now, or was that only later in the cretaceous?

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    Wibbs wrote: »
    I thought oxygen levels were higher then than now, or was that only later in the cretaceous?

    I was not aware before reading that that oxygen levels were quite low in the Triassic, however it seem to make sense that this would be the case after the Permian mass extinction. They peaked up at about 30%(?) during the Cretaceous I think , once the great angiosperm radiation occured and they took over practically the entire world.

    This thread reminds me that I have been meanng to buy this book: http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=11630&page=1


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,657 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    wasn't there something abut crocs hearts being leaky being advantageous to speed up digestion.

    aren't the major blood vessels of the heart in mammals and birds the opposite way or something ? - did they evolve more than once ?

    remember they found the heart in a dinosaur , did they ever figure anything more about it


    am reminded of that blood vessel in giraffes that goes up to the head and back down again to travel a few inches , because it looped past something else earlier in evolution - it was on the channel 4 dissection of giants series


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    wasn't there something abut crocs hearts being leaky being advantageous to speed up digestion.

    aren't the major blood vessels of the heart in mammals and birds the opposite way or something ? - did they evolve more than once ?

    remember they found the heart in a dinosaur , did they ever figure anything more about it


    am reminded of that blood vessel in giraffes that goes up to the head and back down again to travel a few inches , because it looped past something else earlier in evolution - it was on the channel 4 dissection of giants series

    Willo the Thescelosaurus even has his own web page.

    http://www.dinoheart.org/

    There is some dispute as to whether or not it was was an actual dinosaur heart or not. See the section near the end of the page for the controversy details. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thescelosaurus

    The evidence suggest that the four chambered heart evolved seperately in the archosaurs (Dinosaurs, Crocs, Birds) and in Mammals. As all other reptiles apart from the archosaurs have a three chambered heart and the mammalian and reptilian lineages diverged prior to the last common ancestor of the Sauropsida (All reptilian decendants including archosaurs)

    Never heard that about about the Croc heart before it is a facinating change of direction. Typical evolution really, to go to to all the trouble of seperating the pulmonary circulatory system from the systemic circulatory system and then undoing all its good work. :)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foramen_of_Panizza

    According to the croc wiki page this serves to allow the mixture of oxygenated and deoxygenated blood in the left aorta. Because the left aortic archery goes directly to the gut, the shunting of oxygen depleted blood which is high in CO2 may serve to aid in creating stomach acid to assist in digesting bones from its prey.

    Things learnt today + 1


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    Wibbs wrote: »
    I thought oxygen levels were higher then than now, or was that only later in the cretaceous?

    Found this nifty little graph of oxygen levels over the last 600 MY. It suggests that levels dropped as low as 15% in the early Triassic (And interestingly again around the Triassic/Jurassic boundary by the looks of it, which was one of the less well famous major extinction events).

    103014.gif

    Lifted from this paper:
    http://www.pnas.org/content/96/20/10955.full


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭Adam Khor




  • Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    Pseudosuchian... I've never heard taht term before and now I love it! :D


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭Adam Khor


    At least most of the time.

    http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2013/02/21/poposaurus-postosuchus-and-the-dinosaur-mimic-croc-walk/

    Poposaurus-restoration-990x418.jpg

    You know what's funny? With theropods looking more and more bird-like with every new discovery, it is rauisuchians like these that seem to become the closest thing to our classic view of carnivorous dinosaurs...

    Postosuchus031.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    It's almost like they're evolving.... in retrospect!


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭Adam Khor


    Was an early ornitischian, about the size of a fox and apparently omnivorous:

    http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/lifestyle/2014/08/07/puzzling-fox-sized-dinosaur-remains-found-in-venezuela/

    Dinosaur%20Venezuela%20Discovery.jpg


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭Adam Khor




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭Adam Khor




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭Adam Khor


    http://www.eartharchives.org/articles/vivaron-haydeni-the-triassic-ghost-ranch-predator/

    vivaron-haydeni.jpg

    It is said to be the same size as Postosuchus, and it lived at the same time and in the same place. I would really like to know why this couldn t be just another Posto...


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭Adam Khor




  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,657 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    another weird gliding reptile from the Triassic :)




    +1 for Sharovipteryx


    tumblr_inline_o8cw1gDauk1ts3plz_540.jpg


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭Adam Khor




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,551 ✭✭✭Rubecula


    Missed this sorry


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭Adam Khor




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 8,990 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    Solid horn? Or hollow horn? Like subsurface snorkel? Mobile proboscis used as abreathing tube? Like a specific variation of hadrosaurs?


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭Adam Khor


    It looks pretty similar to ceratopsian horns, which unless I'm mistaken were pretty solid. Because they point forwards it would follow that they were used to fight- both potential predators and, especially, same species rivals. The skeletal shows high spines above the shoulders and a long, straight neck. It looks like it may have been adapted to lock horns and push like ceratopsians or many ruminants today. 
    No hadrosaur that we know of had crests that could double as breathing tubes or snorkels; the famous Parasaurolophus' crest was seemingly used to produce sounds, and as a visual display (apparently males had the long crests, whereas female's were short and more rounded; the males would've have the louder call). The airways do pass through the crest but there's no opening on the tip, and the orientation also would make it impractical as a snorkel even if the orifice was present.
    parasaurolophus_skulls.gif


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭Adam Khor




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭Adam Khor


    Triassic archosaur Smok had tyrannosaur-like bite

    Crunched bones and ate them like it was nothing.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-37540-4?fbclid=IwAR2mjsECD8CWpdecKxG6WAniuloVyhV6LJXE20r0Kb5POdzyGSV890mSDkU

    41598_2018_37540_Fig2_HTML.png

    1200px-Smok_wawelski_szkielet.jpg


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭Adam Khor


    Gnathovorax, a new herrerasaurid from Brazil. It honestly looks a lot like Herrerasaurus proper, wouldn´t be surprised if it's reclassified as such eventually.

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/laelaps/stunning-skeleton-reveals-early-carnivorous-dinosaur/

    F020D3B4-C00B-4C79-888BCABFB35783A3_source.jpg?w=590&h=800&3FB067AA-9241-47F3-B2A75BE749F3A7CC


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭Adam Khor


    Strange erythrosuchids found to have proportionally immense heads, much larger than any dinosaur's:

    https://phys.org/news/2019-11-ancient-komodo-dragon-like-animals-proportionally.html

    5dd5226364dce.jpg

    images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSPqlRkv7uGbRdqVzFqMjuFqlzptxQckYYTrOnHOCqatmxwhGvR


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,851 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    It looks like Gon from the old Tekken games! :D

    e375cd1b99f21b67ce8f8aa29e07a0c7.jpg


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭Adam Khor


    A new Thalattosaur (Triassic marine reptile) from Alaska:

    http://www.sci-news.com/paleontology/gunakadeit-joseeae-08088.html

    image_8088_1-Gunakadeit-joseeae.jpg


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭Adam Khor


    The Triassic archosaur Scleromochlus , variously portrayed until now as a bipedal runner or hopper (like a kangaroo or a jerboa), is found to have been a quadrupedal hopper not unlike a frog:

    https://peerj.com/articles/8418/

    ERJPpaQW4AAykxL?format=jpg&name=large


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭Adam Khor


    Triassic archosaur named after Tolkien character:

    https://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/43635/20200409/new-fossil-reptile-species-discovered.htm

    Elessaurus_gondwanoccidens-novataxa_2020-De-Oliveira_Pinheiro_Stock_Da-Rosa_Dias-Da-Silva_et_Kerber--paleoArt_M%25C3%25A1rcio_L_Castro.PNG
    The animal is a new species named Elessaurus gondwanoccidens, after Elessar Telcontar, King Aragon II's chosen name, who was also known by his nicknames Longshanks and Strider. Aragorn is a character in the Lord of the Rings series written by J.R.R. Tolkien. Elessar, in the fictional Elvish language invented by Tolkien, means "elf-stone." The scientists think that the name is apt also because the reptile had notably long legs, which brings to mind Aragorn's nicknames.

    The creature would've been related to the relatively better known Tanystropheus, notable for its incredibly long neck:

    Tanystropheus_longobardicus_4.JPG


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭Adam Khor


    Tiny (10 cm tall) archosaur from Triassic Madagascar. It was an ornithodiran, that is, closely related to both dinosaurs and pterosaurs.

    https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/07/01/1916631117?fbclid=IwAR1VeJmiWRogJlxD02sPtiGlyDrHK3WUqQSAl6GdVpOiB3mKXL0SUsWpqM4

    Kongonaphon3.jpg


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭Adam Khor


    Iconic Triassic reptile Tanystropheus, famous for its long neck, found to be two separate species; the small individuals are found to be fully grown rather than young as previously thought, and named T. hydroides. It seems their different size and dentition allowed for both species to coexist without competing with each other:

    https://phys.org/news/2020-08-fossil-mystery-super-long-necked-reptiles-ocean.html

    1-1-fossilmyster.jpg


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