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Meter cabinet isolator

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  • 14-04-2021 7:25pm
    #1
    maxamillius
    Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭


    Just wondering is it ESBs responsibility to fit a double pole isolator in the metre cabinet?


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    #2
    meercat
    Registered Users Posts: 4,726 ✭✭✭meercat


    maxamillius wrote: »
    Just wondering is it ESBs responsibility to fit a double pole isolator in the metre cabinet?

    Yes. Before your main over current protective device


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    #3
    maxamillius
    Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭maxamillius


    Cheers, presumably a simple case of ringing them and asking them to install? They’re not going to start looking for certs and all that?!


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    #4
    meercat
    Registered Users Posts: 4,726 ✭✭✭meercat


    maxamillius wrote: »
    Cheers, presumably a simple case of ringing them and asking them to install? They’re not going to start looking for certs and all that?!

    Householder(bill payer ) reports it as a fault. Mprn required when calling. No certificate required


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    #5
    maxamillius
    Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭maxamillius


    Great stuff, thanks for that mate


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    #6
    sparcocars
    Registered Users Posts: 148 ✭✭sparcocars


    For what its worth, your meter nay have an integral isolator dependong on the meter installed at your premises.

    Both meters circled in the attached picture have an integral isolator.


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    #7
    maxamillius
    Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭maxamillius


    sparcocars wrote: »
    For what its worth, your meter nay have an integral isolator dependong on the meter installed at your premises.

    Both meters circled in the attached picture have an integral isolator.

    It’s a new smart metre, couldn’t see any double pile isolator there though?!


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    #8
    sparcocars
    Registered Users Posts: 148 ✭✭sparcocars


    Definitely should of been a seperate double pole isolator fitted so.


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    #9
    maxamillius
    Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭maxamillius


    sparcocars wrote: »
    Definitely should of been a seperate double pole isolator fitted so.

    That’s what I was thinking, this is my sister in laws house.

    However i know for a fact that KN installed a smart metre in my own house and didn’t install an isolator.


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    #10
    maxamillius
    Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭maxamillius


    So rang esb and they said because it’s a smart metre it has the isolator in it, unless I’m missing something I can’t see how you can isolate the fuse board from the metre?

    Only one button available and that toggles through the readings that’s it?!


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    #11
    Yoptail.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭Yoptail.


    maxamillius wrote: »
    So rang esb and they said because it’s a smart metre it has the isolator in it, unless I’m missing something I can’t see how you can isolate the fuse board from the metre?

    Only one button available and that toggles through the readings that’s it?!

    I'm not sure on the exact specs for cabinets now

    The meter isolator, I would describe that as a switch to safely connect to the meter and not for isolating supply to main DB

    The separate DP isolator in some cabinets or the consumers main OCPD would isolate the supply to the main DB

    If you're working on the main DB you're not in line of sight of the cabinet so there may be extra precautions required too for safe working


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    #12
    maxamillius
    Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭maxamillius


    Yoptail. wrote: »
    I'm not sure on the exact specs for cabinets now

    The meter isolator, I would describe that as a switch to safely connect to the meter and not for isolating supply to main DB

    The separate DP isolator in some cabinets or the consumers main OCPD would isolate the supply to the main DB

    If you're working on the main DB you're not in line of sight of the cabinet so there may be extra precautions required too for safe working

    Yes so sorry if I’ve explained that wrong, I’m talking about a double pole switch after the metre so the fuse board can be isolated without pulling the esb cutout


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    #13
    Yoptail.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭Yoptail.


    maxamillius wrote: »
    Yes so sorry if I’ve explained that wrong, I’m talking about a double pole switch after the metre so the fuse board can be isolated without pulling the esb cutout

    Yes there should be means of isolation and overcurrent protection

    Back in the day we had to ring ESBN to do anything

    Other alternative was to work live or you could try pulling the fused-cutout enough to disconnect without removing the seal


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    #14
    sparcocars
    Registered Users Posts: 148 ✭✭sparcocars


    maxamillius wrote: »
    So rang esb and they said because it’s a smart metre it has the isolator in it, unless I’m missing something I can’t see how you can isolate the fuse board from the metre?

    Only one button available and that toggles through the readings that’s it?!

    There should 100% be an isolator fitted. Was it esb networks you rang or your supplier?

    I attached a picture from the safe electric newsletter


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    #15
    maxamillius
    Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭maxamillius


    sparcocars wrote: »
    There should 100% be an isolator fitted. Was it esb networks you rang or your supplier?

    I attached a picture from the safe electric newsletter

    ESB networks, she went off, came back ten mins later and said there was an isolator in the new smart metre, I said I don’t think so but I’ll double check. Always second guessing myself. Having gone and checked, there is absolutely no isolator fitted.

    I started thinking then is it up to the REC to install a breaker in the cabinet? After the metre and before the DB?!

    Or is the correct install as follows.

    1. Esb cutout ESB)
    2.cutout to metre (ESB)
    3.metre to isolator (ESB)
    4.isolator to main over current protection 63a MCB (Customer)


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    #16
    meercat
    Registered Users Posts: 4,726 ✭✭✭meercat


    maxamillius wrote: »
    So rang esb and they said because it’s a smart metre it has the isolator in it, unless I’m missing something I can’t see how you can isolate the fuse board from the metre?

    Only one button available and that toggles through the readings that’s it?!

    Report it as a fault again.
    Some call centre operatives are unfamiliar with the issues and layouts of metering systems.
    Ask for an engineer to contact you directly


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    #17
    maxamillius
    Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭maxamillius


    Will do, cheers for the advice folks


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    #18
    sparcocars
    Registered Users Posts: 148 ✭✭sparcocars


    maxamillius wrote: »
    ESB networks, she went off, came back ten mins later and said there was an isolator in the new smart metre, I said I don’t think so but I’ll double check. Always second guessing myself. Having gone and checked, there is absolutely no isolator fitted.

    I started thinking then is it up to the REC to install a breaker in the cabinet? After the metre and before the DB?!

    Or is the correct install as follows.

    1. Esb cutout ESB)
    2.cutout to metre (ESB)
    3.metre to isolator (ESB)
    4.isolator to main over current protection 63a MCB (Customer)


    Yeah you correct in the sequence you have listed in you post. Thats how it should all be connected.


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    #19
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,499 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    maxamillius wrote: »
    ESB networks, she went off, came back ten mins later and said there was an isolator in the new smart metre,

    I dont know anything about the new smart meters but maybe they are talking about the isolater they can control ?

    They can remotely switch them off cant they ?


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    #20
    maxamillius
    Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭maxamillius


    BrownFinger wrote: »
    I dont know anything about the new smart meters but maybe they are talking about the isolater they can control ?

    They can remotely switch them off cant they ?

    Ye I’d imagine that’s what they are talking about, I’ve mailed them with the extract gel
    Safe electric and said they need to come and install an isolator


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    #21
    throwaway657yf
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭throwaway657yf


    maxamillius wrote: »
    ESB networks, she went off, came back ten mins later and said there was an isolator in the new smart metre, I said I don’t think so but I’ll double check. Always second guessing myself. Having gone and checked, there is absolutely no isolator fitted.

    I started thinking then is it up to the REC to install a breaker in the cabinet? After the metre and before the DB?!

    Or is the correct install as follows.

    1. Esb cutout ESB)
    2.cutout to metre (ESB)
    3.metre to isolator (ESB)
    4.isolator to main over current protection 63a MCB (Customer)

    in the case of the mod does that have to be a dp isolator or could you still use a sp if the cu was fitted with a dp main switch?


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    #22
    Extra user.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39 ✭Extra user.


    throwaway657yf wrote: »
    in the case of the mod does that have to be a dp isolator or could you still use a sp if the cu was fitted with a dp main switch?

    Hmm well..

    I don't think the DP isolator in the meter cabinet and the Main Isolator at the main DB are related in that way

    The DP isolator in the cabinet is the interface between ESBN and the REC

    All it does really is allow a safe connection for the REC at the meter cabinet and changing of main devices at the main DB if necessary(the main MCB in the cabinet can do that as well)

    The main isolator at the main DB isolates the main DB and the entire installation


    The DP 'main switch' is a new requirement, I wouldn't get too caught up about it
    Single pole main isolation has worked fine up to now


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    #23
    Pete67
    Registered Users Posts: 1,257 ✭✭✭Pete67


    Interesting discussion. I had a smart meter installed about two weeks ago, it replaced the original meter that is nearly 20 years old now. The old meter had an internal disconnect, but the new one does not. I asked the installer would he be installing a separate isolator but he said no, it was only required where the tails were too short or if there was no neutralising link. Didn't seem right but no point arguing with the installer.

    I rang ESBN to report it as a fault, and to be fair to them they send a crew out within 2 hours to review the installation. While on site they rang their head of Metering for clarification, and apparently he informed them that meter cabinet isolation was only required for new installations, and in that case it was to be installed by the builders REC before ESBN connected the supply.

    So the semi-official line from ESBN is they are not installing them, and they don't require their contractors to install them unless there is a specific reason to do so.


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    #24
    meercat
    Registered Users Posts: 4,726 ✭✭✭meercat


    Pete67 wrote: »
    Interesting discussion. I had a smart meter installed about two weeks ago, it replaced the original meter that is nearly 20 years old now. The old meter had an internal disconnect, but the new one does not. I asked the installer would he be installing a separate isolator but he said no, it was only required where the tails were too short or if there was no neutralising link. Didn't seem right but no point arguing with the installer.

    I rang ESBN to report it as a fault, and to be fair to them they send a crew out within 2 hours to review the installation. While on site they rang their head of Metering for clarification, and apparently he informed them that meter cabinet isolation was only required for new installations, and in that case it was to be installed by the builders REC before ESBN connected the supply.

    So the semi-official line from ESBN is they are not installing them, and they don't require their contractors to install them unless there is a specific reason to do so.

    That’s not correct
    I’ve recently worked on an installation where a smart meter was fitted and an isolator was fitted before the main over current protective device
    Check out post 14 from sparcocars that safe electric guidelines state


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    #25
    Pete67
    Registered Users Posts: 1,257 ✭✭✭Pete67


    meercat wrote: »
    That’s not correct
    I’ve recently worked on an installation where a smart meter was fitted and an isolator was fitted before the main over current protective device
    Check out post 14 from sparcocars that safe electric guidelines state

    Thanks, I'm familiar with the Safe Electric newsletter. I just wanted to let folks know what I was told by ESBN who came out and inspected the installation.

    They did say that an isolator would be installed before the main over current device on older installations without a neutralising link, or possibly after the meter if the customers tails were too short to reach the meter terminals, but that otherwise it is not required.

    However a quick review of ESBN code of practice describes two methods for a Domestic Standard Setup, one with separate meter and isolator, and one with combined meter and isolator. No mention of an installation without an ESBN isolator. I might take it up with ESBN Engineering if I can get hold of them.


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    #26
    meercat
    Registered Users Posts: 4,726 ✭✭✭meercat


    Pete67 wrote: »

    They did say that an isolator would be installed before the main over current device on older installations without a neutralising link,.

    Not sure what they meant by this. All installations require a neutralising link.


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