Sub-3 Marathon, need some experienced opinions please

Coffee Fulled Runner · 23-03-2017 2:14pm

I planed a sub 3 hours for Dublin last year, actually 2:56 was the goal. Never actually got to attempt it. All was going great and easily hitting all my target times in training and my half marathon time was 1:23. But I got injured a couple of weeks out. My advice is have a back up plan of things don't work out. Don't put a sub 3 on pedestal, listen to your body and remember 10% under training is better than 1% over trained.

ASIMON0V · 23-03-2017 3:17pm

ger664 wrote: »

Not that I ever have got near sub 3 my thoughts are as follows.

I train to my target time and 4-5 days before the race I run 3-4 miles on a measured piece of road from local races (its relatively flat as well) at what I perceive is marathon pace. I wear a watch to get my pace/time but cover it so I dont have a reference to the pace. This wont be the true pace so add ~5 minutes for your target time. The times I have done this I got the following

If you do go for sub 3 in Rotherdam fully commit to it at the start. IE sub 3 or back of an ambulance trying. Do not place the idea that you can ease off in your head. There will always be a point in the race where its getting too much. If you have back door plan B secondary goal time in your head at the start you will end running that strategy

I remember that plan worked for blockic in 2013, well the ambulance part did anyway.

bonaparte2 · 09-04-2017 5:58pm

How did you get on?

rom · 10-04-2017 12:13am

1:32:58 at half way. 3:19:16 finish

ger664 · 10-04-2017 12:37am

rom wrote: »

1:32:58 at half way. 3:19:16 finish

At least he didnt take my advise and end up in the ambulance

Abram · 10-04-2017 8:43am

Was a disaster, completely blew up around mile 16-18. Conditions were hard, it was very hot - was sweating at mile 3 and I knew it wasn't good.

Vomited trying to take a salt table around mile 16 then again trying to take a gel at mile 18 - kept trying to take on water but it wasn't enough.

Hardest marathon I ever ran, very disappointed but I'll just have to put it down to experience.

and still ricky villa · 10-04-2017 9:26am

Abram wrote: »

Was a disaster, completely blew up around mile 16-18. Conditions were hard, it was very hot - was sweating at mile 3 and I knew it wasn't good.

Vomited trying to take a salt table around mile 16 then again trying to take a gel at mile 18 - kept trying to take on water but it wasn't enough.

Hardest marathon I ever ran, very disappointed but I'll just have to put it down to experience.

You weren't alone. A lot of suffering with that heat. I've vicious sunburn and blisters on both feet which I've never had in 10 years. As someone said after the race 'If it wasn't for all the water and sponge stops there would've been a lot more people leaving in an ambulance'

Chalk it up to experience but there were factors outside your control. Nothing for it but to regroup and come back for another stab in the Autumn

EC1000 · 11-04-2017 2:54pm

Just back from a 3.07 PB in Rotterdam (previous was 3.09). Went through half way in 1.29.45 but dialled it back a bit at mile 15 as I knew sub 3 was not on and didn't want to blow up completely. Had missed 3 weeks of training (only started back 2 weeks before Rotterdam) due to an ankle issue which thankfully is fine now.

Thinking of heading to Limerick (two weeks from this weekend) for another

attempt as I won't be trying again in Autumn due to IM Barcelona - any thoughts on what to do in the meantime training wise? Legs still quite sore today.

Itziger · 11-04-2017 3:09pm

EC1000 wrote: »

Just back from a 3.07 PB in Rotterdam (previous was 3.09). Went through half way in 1.29.45 but dialled it back a bit at mile 15 as I knew sub 3 was not on and didn't want to blow up completely. Had missed 3 weeks of training (only started back 2 weeks before Rotterdam) due to an ankle issue which thankfully is fine now.

Thinking of heading to Limerick (two weeks from this weekend) for another attempt as I won't be trying again in Autumn due to IM Barcelona - any thoughts on what to do in the meantime training wise? Legs still quite sore today.

That's a very short turn around. Has been discussed in the 'real' sub 3 thread very recently. A lot of people found 5 to 7 weeks was good for a second attempt. What about Cork (said he, slightly disinterestedly)?

EC1000 · 11-04-2017 3:14pm

Itziger wrote: »

That's a very short turn around. Has been discussed in the 'real' sub 3 thread very recently. A lot of people found 5 to 7 weeks was good for a second attempt. What about Cork (said he, slightly disinterestedly)?

I was confusing the two threads, I thought this was the main thread but you're quite right....

rooneyjm · 11-04-2017 4:42pm

EC1000 wrote: »

I was confusing the two threads, I thought this was the main thread but you're quite right....

There are schedules at the back of Advanced Marathoning for quick turn around. 8, 6 and 4 weeks

Bawnmore_Ent. · 11-04-2017 5:09pm

EC1000 wrote:

Thinking of heading to Limerick (two weeks from this weekend) for another

EC1000 wrote:

Just back from a 3.07 PB in Rotterdam (previous was 3.09). Went through half way in 1.29.45 but dialled it back a bit at mile 15 as I knew sub 3 was not on and didn't want to blow up completely. Had missed 3 weeks of training (only started back 2 weeks before Rotterdam) due to an ankle issue which thankfully is fine now.

I did Rotterdam last year in 3:09 and did my first IM in Barcelona in October.

I am glad I had a bit of a break for rest of April before starting tri training.

Don't know would I have been able to do another good block of marathon training as well as swim/bike.

EC1000 · 11-04-2017 6:02pm

Bawnmore_Ent. wrote: »

I did Rotterdam last year in 3:09 and did my first IM in Barcelona in October.

I am glad I had a bit of a break for rest of April before starting tri training.

Don't know would I have been able to do another good block of marathon training as well as swim/bike.

My thinking was that given the 3 week turnaround I would not really be training more as such - more of a rest and a couple of tempos before Limerick. Might even get a couple of spins in......

bonaparte2 · 11-04-2017 6:18pm

I tried a 3 week turnaround between hard marathons. It didn't work . I got injured . A marathon is a big stress on the body and a body needs time to repair itself.
I wouldn't recommend it

snailsong · 12-04-2017 10:35am

I don't often read the main forum so just spotted this now. I was in almost identical situation to the op. I ran a 1;27 half in spring in poor conditions. Sub 3:05 meant a lot to me and I didn't want to mess it up but I was tempted to try for sub 3.
On the day I started at 3:04 pace and after a few k tried out 3 hour pace for a few short intervals. Heart rate was too high and it just wasn't possible on the day. I tried to bring it home evenly. 1:31:45 at halfway and home in 3:03:45. Working very hard at the end with super high hr and empty tank so I think I got the max. Op, our paths must have crossed at some point.
I liked this thread, it echoed the conservation I was having with myself the last few weeks.

Abram · 12-04-2017 10:45am

snailsong wrote: »

I don't often read the main forum so just spotted this now. I was in almost identical situation to the op. I ran a 1;27 half in spring in poor conditions. Sub 3:05 meant a lot to me and I didn't want to mess it up but I was tempted to try for sub 3.
On the day I started at 3:04 pace and after a few k tried out 3 hour pace for a few short intervals. Heart rate was too high and it just wasn't possible on the day. I tried to bring it home evenly. 1:31:45 at halfway and home in 3:03:45. Working very hard at the end with super high hr and empty tank so I think I got the max. Op, our paths must have crossed at some point.
I liked this thread, it echoed the conservation I was having with myself the last few weeks.

Great work, you must be delighted - fair play. Didn't work out for me on the day, just knew I wasn't feeling right. Almost 700 miles of training since end of December and not getting what I know I am capable of (3.05) is hard to accept but I'll try again. Well done again

snailsong · 12-04-2017 10:56am

Thanks, Abram.
Fwiw, I started training at the beginning of December and covered about 900 miles since then. I really believe volume is of primary importance.
Fair play for going for it, your day will come.

opus · 12-04-2017 12:23pm

bonaparte2 wrote: »

I tried a 3 week turnaround between hard marathons. It didn't work . I got injured . A marathon is a big stress on the body and a body needs time to repair itself.
I wouldn't recommend it

Just some personal experience of multiple marathons close together, I ran a few marathons last Spring in training for an Ultra. Had one in Germany where I ran ~3:11 very comfortably and then the following Sunday ran in Limerick where I'd planned to run with the 3:30 pace group. Anyway to cut a long story short, I knew the person pacing 3h and stupidly decided to run with them instead, I'm sure you can see where this is going! Was ok 'til around the 15m mark when things went to cr*p, finished around 2 mins slower than in Germany with a huge positive split but felt a million times worse.

This year I'm running Limerick the weekend after the Conn Ultra but I can guarantee I won't be joining the 3h group no matter who is pacing it

Peterx · 12-04-2017 1:41pm

Abram wrote: »

Great work, you must be delighted - fair play. Didn't work out for me on the day, just knew I wasn't feeling right. Almost 700 miles of training since end of December and not getting what I know I am capable of (3.05) is hard to accept but I'll try again. Well done again

Hard Luck and well done. Should you decide to double those 700 training miles Slogger's piece of advice from earlier is really good - finishing those long runs at marathon pace is a great idea. It does condition you and your body to the harder part of the marathon. The last 6 miles!

My personal favourite session was the 2k reps but I was fooling myself focusing on doing well in a session I liked (and suited me) and didn't do enough of the long hardish runs in training.

Tommy Max · 11-04-2019 8:31pm

Just looking for guidance on how a typical week of mileage is best is structured before getting into the main marathon training cycle. obviously a long run on weekend but wondering how best to build up mileage to target a sub 3 marathon. would the following be a good breakdown?

mon 10 miles
tues 6 miles
wednesday 6 miles
Thursday 12 miles
fri none gym day
saturday 8 miles
sunday 18 miles

currently 40 miles a week over 5 days is about as much i get in max on a good week. but ive been told anything less than 60 is wasting your time for a marathon if aiming for sub3 unless you have your blessed with super genes or talent.

interested to hear what has worked well for others. ideally 5 days but im guessing 6 days willbe needed per week. not interested in doubles. havent the time for that.

OOnegative · 11-04-2019 8:52pm

Tommy Max wrote: »

Just looking for guidance on how a typical week of mileage is best is structured before getting into the main marathon training cycle. obviously a long run on weekend but wondering how best to build up mileage to target a sub 3 marathon. would the following be a good breakdown?

mon 10 miles
tues 6 miles
wednesday 6 miles
Thursday 12 miles
fri none gym day
saturday 8 miles
sunday 18 miles

currently 40 miles a week over 5 days is about as much i get in max on a good week. but ive been told anything less than 60 is wasting your time for a marathon if aiming for sub3 unless you have your blessed with super genes or talent.

interested to hear what has worked well for others. ideally 5 days but im guessing 6 days willbe needed per week. not interested in doubles. havent the time for that.

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2055617191/273/#post109893945

Have a read through this thread, more recent & loads of great advice contained in it.

RayCun · 11-04-2019 8:57pm

What does your week look like now, and what are the immovables in the week?

RayCun · 11-04-2019 8:59pm

And what kind of races are you doing now, in what times?
60 miles a week isn't a requirement, and you don't need to be superhuman, but it depends on how much you need to improve, and where.

Sub-3 Marathon, need some experienced opinions please

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