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Road bike super-leggera cycle-touring

  • 04-08-2020 4:50pm
    #1
    fat bloke
    Registered Users Posts: 5,811 ✭✭✭


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gn_DA0nY2Gk&t=130s

    Ever since March lock-down I've been seriously considering getting some road bike touring baggage and I think around that time Planet-X had deals on podsacs which I kind of missed out on. But I hate buying stuff I know nothing about and I didn't feel I knew enough about the products to jump on the Planet X deal at the time.

    Anyway, fast forward a good few months and I still had it in the back of my mind that it'd make for an alternative staycation. Got a quote of 4500 euro for a camper van for a week (seriously), and figured - fcuk it, if I bought some good quality bags I'd always have them and would surely get some value and use out of em in the years or decades, if not the immediate weeks ahead. Got 2 sets, one each for meself and the wife.

    Conor Dunne's video above finally tipped the scales and gave me the root up the hole I needed. Went straight on line and just ordered up two sets of Topeak bags. - Same as in the vid.

    I searched the forum here and didn't see any recent (within the last 5 years) threads on the subject, though I sort of have this feeling that I'm not the only one thinking this could be a great way to spend a few days. -Even from my coffee moments in Laragh I've seen road bikes of all sorts trundling by and trussed up with bags with a light-touring bent.

    So, this might be a handy thread for myself and others thinking of embarking on a point to point.

    The plan would be to do I suppose 2 nights in a row. - That's as much child-minding as we would be allowed I'd say. I'd imagine pace would be more relaxed than your usual spin, but give that the both of us would routinely do 100km+ club spins of a morning, then what's a realistic mileage goal then in all-day cycling touring mode? 150k easily I imagine? That prescribes quite a touring radius from wherever you'd start from. We'd have a couple of options there. - Go from Dublin from our own gaff, or we'd have respective MIL base-options from Cork or Ennis Co. Clare.

    If anyone has any immediate, hard-earned/learned, must-do's or must-not do's from their own experiences then I'd love to hear while I'm waiting for the courier van delivery, and I'll post up my first impressions. :)

    These are the bags I ordered, a total of 24 litres of storage - 8l handlebar bag, 6 litre frame bag and 10l saddle roll.

    https://www.merlincycles.com/topeak-frontloader-handlebar-bag-100760.html


    https://www.merlincycles.com/topeak-backloader-seat-pack-100757.html


    https://www.merlincycles.com/topeak-midloader-frame-bag-100762.html


«13

Comments

  • #2
    comete
    Registered Users Posts: 383 ✭✭comete


    I haven't done a bikepacking trip in a few years but i recall the last time I did, i didn't find about 200km a day, 3 days in a row all too taxing, and you've been a more consistent rider than I have in the past number of years by the sounds of it.

    It's literally all you're doing for the day, so you can take your time.


  • #3
    fat bloke
    Registered Users Posts: 5,811 ✭✭✭fat bloke


    comete wrote: »
    It's literally all you're doing for the day, so you can take your time.


    Well that's true! You can't really be locking luggage'd-up bikes and going for a stroll anywhere. I could see simple stuff like contact wear and tear being a problem - ar$e in the saddle and hands on the bars for that long for consecutive days. You are by default going to be going easier in terms of exertion and pace. Plus I'll have the wife with me, but she's plenty fit. We did a 130k approximation of the Mount Leinster challenge over the weekend with a couple of mates and kept the bunch of us together no problem at a good pace. Though for touring you'd be aiming for a bit more head-up and a bit less head-down :)

    What's the best approach for accommodation. In a world of available affordability you'd love to just pedal until you arrive in a place and then rock up outside a nice place and book in - but Mary and Joseph are long time testament to the merits of booking ahead! :D. The thing about that though is your distance for the day is pre-set and subject to over or under estimation. I suppose you learn as you go. Would be a right pain to be trudging around a town full of "no vacancies" signs in fading light with 200k in the legs.


  • #4
    comete
    Registered Users Posts: 383 ✭✭comete


    How would you feel about sleeping in a bivvy bag? That was my bikepacking accommodation but i could never convince my wife to do that haha


  • #5
    fat bloke
    Registered Users Posts: 5,811 ✭✭✭fat bloke


    comete wrote: »
    How would you feel about sleeping in a bivvy bag? That was my bikepacking accommodation but i could never convince my wife to do that haha

    No. Fcukin. Way.

    :D:D

    No. Absolutely not. I'd rather turn around and do the 200k back home to me bed! For the few days, for my own sanity, and for the sake of matrimonial harmony, I'd be well prepared to pay the premium for a bit of overnight comfort, sleep and shower etc :)


  • #6
    comete
    Registered Users Posts: 383 ✭✭comete


    Haha welll in that case, if you're not taking your accommodation with you, you've freed up your entire handlebar bag!


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  • #7
    cletus
    Registered Users Posts: 7,858 ✭✭✭cletus


    I'd be really interest in your opinion of these bags, particularly the fit of the handlebar bag.

    I keep flip flopping on this with regards to what bags to buy, but a good review from yourself might give me the push on it


  • #8
    saccades
    Registered Users Posts: 1,252 ✭✭✭saccades


    Credit card touring - the best kind.

    Dial back the distance and add a couple of sights along the way, even if just the top of a hill for a thermos.

    It's not a club road spin, about 5-6 hours cycling max at 23kmph. It might take two days for you to forget club spins and groups.

    Be aware of weight, you think a heavy set of panniers is grand, but half way up a big climb it can get mighty heavy.

    One of the good? Things is that as you have spent the day seeing the sights and exercising so it's quite nice to chill out doing not a lot. Unfashionable b&bs on the outskirts of a town really work then. Get a fish supper and talk nonsense with the other half.

    A practice run is always good too, I make lists and refine them over time so that I have the basics for a couple of days or more.


  • #9
    CantGetNoSleep
    Registered Users Posts: 7,205 ✭✭✭CantGetNoSleep


    cletus wrote: »
    I'd be really interest in your opinion of these bags, particularly the fit of the handlebar bag.

    I keep flip flopping on this with regards to what bags to buy, but a good review from yourself might give me the push on it

    I'd also be interested, but more in the saddle bag (how sturdy is it and does it sway much) and the frame bag (any chance of fitting two water bottles with it on a 54/56 frame?)

    I've been considering the same as you (touring but staying in hotels) and I'm not sure if you'd need all three bags. I'm thinking of doing it with seat bag, frame and a top tube bag for food & phone etc, then leave the handle bar bag off. Not sure if you'll need that much stuff, just one set of evening clothes and you can probably use your cycling rain jacket for colder evenings etc


  • #10
    saccades
    Registered Users Posts: 1,252 ✭✭✭saccades


    CantGetNoSleep wrote: »
    I'd also be interested, but more in the saddle bag (how sturdy is it and does it sway much) and the frame bag (any chance of fitting two water bottles with it on a 54/56 frame?)

    I've been considering the same as you (touring but staying in hotels) and I'm not sure if you'd need all three bags. I'm thinking of doing it with seat bag, frame and a top tube bag for food & phone etc, then leave the handle bar bag off. Not sure if you'll need that much stuff, just one set of evening clothes and you can probably use your cycling rain jacket for colder evenings etc

    For two days you need two sets of cycling kit, for more days pack some handwash detergent and wash each day's in a sink and dry ready for the next day. Otherwise you get salt deposits and they rub like crazy.

    Evening clothing is a light set of hiking pants, some proper underwear and a t shirt, a micro fleece is handy (I only use gilets on the bike mind). Also flipflops (light and pack tiny) to replace the cycle shoes, although v lightweight trainers also can work. A small wash kit is probably the heaviest item after a decent lock/chain.


  • #11
    Plastik
    Registered Users Posts: 2,964 ✭✭✭Plastik


    5eIcJDel.jpg

    Two of us did the WAW from Westport to Derry and then on to Belfast like this. Few of our days were 200-220 back to backs and my achilles were eventually toast, something I've never ever had a problem with before or since. Very painful, and took weeks to clear. I don't know whether it was the daily accumulation or not being used to the extra weight on the bike. Wouldn't worry me for just a two-day trip.

    One of the big learnings from that trip would be to dial back the daily distance to probably about the 150 mark max. You'd be surprised how much time you spend faffing around in the mornings and through the day. Give yourself time to take in the sights properly, and have time to do something in the evening where you stop. Stayed in B&B's, bit of schmoozing in advance on the phone and a bit of sweet talking with the bean an tí on arrival and there was never a problem with they throwing the kit into the washing machine for us.


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  • #12
    brownian
    Registered Users Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭brownian


    Screenshot 2020-08-04 21.27.42.png

    For two days (or indeed a week) of hotel/b+b touring I don't think you need much more than a bag behind the saddle - either the fashionable 'bikepacking' type (which can be tedious to open, close and attach, but are aerodynamic), or a drybag (alpkit do one with great loops) slung acrossways, hung off the saddle rails and kept back from the legs with a normal (tools, tube) saddle bag. The list goes something like
    - jocks, socks, a merino t-shirt. Don't skimp on the small stuff 8-)
    - a light top (merino, micro-fleece and/or a thin down jacket)
    - a pair of thin walking trousers (up to you how respectable you want to look). Farah slacks are also very compact.
    - footwear is a pig to pack. Sandals, flip-flops, or the cheap 'water shoes' that Amazon flogs, and that you can roll up. I haven't found the perfect solution so far (last time I weekended, I went to a supermarket and bought some flipflops on arrival - wasn't ideal, tho). You really don't want to be clopping around in cleats, and if your shoes get wet en route - you want out of them.
    - washbag (toothpaste, brush, deo, neurofen, comb...the b+b will give you soap and shampoo, sudocrem (tiny tublet), suncream). You're not going to Mongolia, so if you find you need nappy cream or vaseline or something exotic, go to a chemist.
    - pump, 2 tubes, chain link, multi-tool, mini-lock (you're not going to leave your bike anywhere other than outside a cafe)
    - phone, charger, plug (or small power-pack)
    - bike waterproof, skullcap or helmet cover. If you must trek around a town in the rain, then a bike waterproof is not perfect, but this imperfection is the least of your worries.
    ...all in all, 2-3 kg should do you. In many weeks of light touring, I've never used a frame bag. A small handlebar bag (like the cheap one with the zip) is handy for reducing jersey bulge, but a toptube bag could work either...it's really for your wallet, phone and suncream.

    Wash your gear in the shower, using soap and/or shampoo, rinse well, and squeeze in a dry towel. You get second go of the towel, if need be! Hang it to dry, in the morning it'll be grand.


  • #13
    fat bloke
    Registered Users Posts: 5,811 ✭✭✭fat bloke


    Cheers lads. Lots of great tips there. I've been on plenty of holidays involving lots of consecutive days cycling and a lot of lycra can be satisfactorily laundered in a sink with some hot water and any kind of soap or shampoo. Easy and quick to dry out as well for the following day.

    I do like the idea of leaving from home (Dublin) too, rather than double packing bikes into a car. - Where would you go though if you had, let's say 2 nights accommodation, 3 days cycling leaving and returning to Dublin? You could easily get to Kilkenny, or Wexford or Waterford day one. In fact 150k ish in any direction gets you a whole plethora of places. I don't know the midlands at all much and would be interested in exploring them a bit.


  • #14
    a148pro
    Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭a148pro


    saccades wrote: »

    Be aware of weight, you think a heavy set of panniers is grand, but half way up a big climb it can get mighty heavy.

    This, among other good suggestions

    I did my first "credit card tour" last week. It was great, here's what I'd suggest.

    You have too many bags for credit card touring. Assuming you are not going to be cooking for yourself or carrying a tent, a ten litre saddle bag is more than enough. My ten litre was only half full (list of what I carried below).

    Saddle bag shouldn't wobble too much if you fit it tight and tighten the straps.

    Test run is a great idea. I went out to glenmalure and overnighted and learned lots.

    The main lesson was weight on hills. Dancing up sally gap on a light road bike is easy, slogging up it with a heavier bike and an extra 2kg of gear hanging off the saddle is significantly harder. I target hills on road bike spins, i'll be inclined to avoid them if "touring".

    In the current climate I would not recommend just thinking you'll get accommodation on sight, it's a different beast this year. I would definitely book in advance. I know you're worried you might want to go further but why not just book somewhere in a nice area and if you want to go for another spin that evening in the area, without your bag, once you've checked in, off you go.

    Also don't underestimate how far you might be from any type of food in the country. No fun if you're bonking and can't find a shop for maybe another hour. So I'd always aim to eat something with something else left in your pocket. IE don't pass a shop without two snacks in your jersey.

    Key is to target stuff that multi tasks. IE, wear next days jersey in the evening as your clean t - Shirt, base layer and cycling jacket will replace need for fleece if need be.

    Weigh your intended clothes, you'd be surprised how much they weigh. Even my light fleeces were 400g. If you think the difference between a super bike and a good bike is about 2kg that's a lot. I found the best warmth to heat ratio by far was thermal layers.

    I just used cling film for toiletries - small finger sized toothpaste (can probably get it in good pharmacy, for travelling), sun cream poured into cling film, charcoal deodorant in cling film.

    Do a list on your phone of what stuff you need and add to it as you learn what works for you.

    If you're lucky enough to be flexible, avoid the rain.

    You learn the value of good gear - it does what you need it to, it dries quickly and it doesn't get smelly too quickly

    While flip flops are a great idea, an even better one if you have normal pedals is you can just wear runners. Have to question the benefit of clipless for leisure cycling - although, bear in mind your leg might be used to being clipped in so if doing this you may get pain as the movement is different. I found a very thin sole, close to my SPD shoes with my foot in same position worked the best.

    I took:-

    Clean jersey for next day
    Light highly breathable base layer top
    Very light tracksuit bottoms (could be replaced with thermal leggings and light shorts to avoid getting arrested and to double up as togs)
    Light cycling jacket
    Arm warmers
    Phone charger
    A few pages of a magazine to read
    Couple of hi5 powders
    Couple of energy bars

    Headphones would be good if you're using an app to read you directions

    I am totally averse to getting into dirty clothes but find both of my bib shorts do not smell even after one long day.

    Most of all, enjoy! If you are the kind of cyclist who is always moving on a spin, stop at every heritage site you see, read everything, you take a lot in and you get a real sense of the communities you are passing through. These are places you'd never specifiably visit or even pass through on a car. There are beauties there that you will only notice if travelling under your own steam.


  • #15
    Plastik
    Registered Users Posts: 2,964 ✭✭✭Plastik


    First thing I'd be doing is seeing where I could get to on the first train from Heuston on Day 1 and plot a route home from there - Cork, Limerick, Galway, Westport, Sligo and probably any number of stops along the way. Train to Cork and follow the east coast all the way home would be sub400k for you. Ardmore, Waterford greenway, hook lighthouse, kilmore quay etc etc.


  • #16
    a148pro
    Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭a148pro


    fat bloke wrote: »
    I do like the idea of leaving from home (Dublin) too, rather than double packing bikes into a car. - Where would you go though if you had, let's say 2 nights accommodation, 3 days cycling leaving and returning to Dublin? You could easily get to Kilkenny, or Wexford or Waterford day one. In fact 150k ish in any direction gets you a whole plethora of places. I don't know the midlands at all much and would be interested in exploring them a bit.

    I think midlands would be a great bet this year as the coastal places like kerry or copper coast will be a lot busier, harder to get accommodation. I spun glenmalure to kilkenny through back roads plotted out by komoot and it was a dream. Slieve blooms, comeraghs, knockmealdowns, galtees, leitrim all spring to mind (ignoring my own advice re hills!)

    There are a few places that are called cycle hubs that have a number of way marked routes which tend to be scenic and on quiet roads. Wexford, kilkenny, kilmallock among many others. You could spend a day getting to them, then book the same accommodation for 2 nights to lighten your load and spend the second day on one of the marked routes.

    Also don't rule out irish rail to get you to places. Buses seem a bit more sporadic since covid unfortunately.

    Don't torture yourself either trying to work out the best route or destination possible, just do it, you can do the other one that tempts you the next time


  • #17
    a148pro
    Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭a148pro


    Plastik wrote: »
    Train to Cork and follow the east coast all the way home would be sub400k for you. Ardmore, Waterford greenway, hook lighthouse, kilmore quay etc etc.

    That would be a class spin

    Op pick a route and if you can get accommodation just go for it

    I'm going to feck off now as otherwise will start packing my bags myself!


  • #18
    brownian
    Registered Users Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭brownian


    From Dublin - out to the Shannon, down the Shannon, home again? Something like the attached, which is just a sketch....Screenshot 2020-08-04 22.33.08.png


  • #19
    Large bottle small glass
    Registered Users Posts: 1,712 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    Plastik wrote: »
    One of the big learnings from that trip would be to dial back the daily distance to probably about the 150 mark max.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=106673415&postcount=25

    I see the long road has schooled you :D

    For a strong club cyclist, IF you are efficent with your time; early breakfast not too much d1cking around 200km a day is grand. 150km a day is easy bar the climbing is mental.

    Over 200km a day eats into sleep, recovery, beer time. I learnt that the hard way :o *

    Pick a nice destination and then map two nice but different routes between same two end points.

    Be brave, be audacious do something worthwhile but have your accomodation planned!

    *In my hard lesson the hardest things was on day 2 with 260km in legs and over 3500m and not being able to find accomodation in the 5th village I tried in some remote area of northern Spain. Trying to figure out how warm I'd be sleeping in a ditch leg and arm warmers with a rain jacket wasn't the most enjoyable. Saved at 9pm by a sound lad in a bike shop who rang around and found accomodation!


  • #20
    Plastik
    Registered Users Posts: 2,964 ✭✭✭Plastik


    Goddam internet. Glad we pushed it for that trip all the same - 207 / 211 / 190 / 180 for the four days from Westport to Larne, and then a short day down to Belfast where two mechanicals ended the trip and we caught the train. Being with a serious faffer and a massive reduction in pace on day 4 because of my achilles didn't help.

    But now we KNOW!!!


  • #21
    fat bloke
    Registered Users Posts: 5,811 ✭✭✭fat bloke


    Train out is a great idea alright, but I'm mindful of a nation of staycationers all viewing for the coastal hotspots. The less obvious Midlands / flyover counties might make accommodation easier.

    Hopefully having the gear will mean we'll do it regularly in the future so perhaps an easier and successful first outing will help in that respect too :).


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  • #22
    brownian
    Registered Users Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭brownian


    A rule of thumb that I've often wished we adhered to on longer (>week) tours is to try to be off the bike by 1600. That way, you actually get to see/visit/enjoy the place you get to. Stopping en route is a good idea, but it is usually just a few minutes (bike security, shoes...), so it's the end-points that you get the most value from. Arriving at 8, cramming down a pizza and four beers and crashing out is not the idea way to enjoy a place 8-).
    Conversely, a longish lunch stop (>1 hour) is also a good thing. A real meal (a bowl of pasta, say), a power nap, maybe take the shoes off and stroll around a little...
    While goals-based, destination-defined trips have their place (usually a further-away place!), there is a risk that you see a lot of tarmac, and not a lot else.


  • #23
    a148pro
    Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭a148pro


    Yeah I'm inclined to agree. I think 120 is a grand distance to aim for, maybe even less.


  • #24
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,948 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    fat bloke wrote: »

    ......
    https://www.merlincycles.com/topeak-frontloader-handlebar-bag-100760.html.....
    Hi fat bloke - do you mind if I make a query about the bar bag?

    I've been toying with the idea of getting one for long rides to take the pressure from the jersey pockets. I've a hub dynamo powered light on my long hauler. The light is fitted to the brake assembly. I'm concerned that a bar bag may obscure the light especially when full. That bag you've linked to gives a depth of 15 cms whereas the distance from the top of my light to the underside of the stem/bars is 14cms. Unfortunately the link doesn't show the bag mounted.

    Basically my question is can the bag be raised slightly on its mounts or does it sit below the bars?

    Thanks.


  • #25
    fat bloke
    Registered Users Posts: 5,811 ✭✭✭fat bloke


    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    Hi fat bloke - do you mind if I make a query about the bar bag?

    I've been toying with the idea of getting one for long rides to take the pressure from the jersey pockets. I've a hub dynamo powered light on my long hauler. The light is fitted to the brake assembly. I'm concerned that a bar bag may obscure the light especially when full. That bag you've linked to gives a depth of 15 cms whereas the distance from the top of my light to the underside of the stem/bars is 14cms. Unfortunately the link doesn't show the bag mounted.

    Basically my question is can the bag be raised slightly on its mounts or does it sit below the bars?

    Thanks.


    Haven't a clue yet, to be perfectly honest. I've only ordered em from Merlin so 'tis in the lap of the delivery Gods for the foreseeable. I'll certainly try to shed some light (no pun intended) on your query when it arrives. Or you'd be welcome to take it for a test drive if you wanted. Hoping ideally to have them some time next week though based on previous (multiple) Merlin purchases.

    If you click the video link on my first post you'll see Conor Dunne using precisely the same bag if that's any help in the meantime?


  • #26
    joey100
    Registered Users Posts: 3,419 ✭✭✭joey100


    @wishbone Ash, I use one of these, https://seesense.cc/collections/accessories/products/see-sense-bar-bag. It's handy little thing. Can put a jacket in the webbing on the outside and decent space inside. Neat enough on the bars too.


  • #27
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,948 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    joey100 wrote: »
    @wishbone Ash, I use one of these, https://seesense.cc/collections/accessories/products/see-sense-bar-bag. It's handy little thing. Can put a jacket in the webbing on the outside and decent space inside. Neat enough on the bars too.
    Thanks joey - that looks like a neater option alright.


  • #28
    fat bloke
    Registered Users Posts: 5,811 ✭✭✭fat bloke


    Yeah if you're just replacing Jersey pockets storage, a 6 litre handlebar bag like I've ordered would be way oversized I'd have thought


  • #29
    comete
    Registered Users Posts: 383 ✭✭comete


    A frame bag always struck me as a better option for jersey pocket replacement.


  • #30
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,770 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    joey100 wrote: »
    @wishbone Ash, I use one of these, https://seesense.cc/collections/accessories/products/see-sense-bar-bag. It's handy little thing. Can put a jacket in the webbing on the outside and decent space inside. Neat enough on the bars too.


    I just ordered one of these last night. Late August delivery according to email.


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  • #31
    cletus
    Registered Users Posts: 7,858 ✭✭✭cletus


    joey100 wrote: »
    @wishbone Ash, I use one of these, https://seesense.cc/collections/accessories/products/see-sense-bar-bag. It's handy little thing. Can put a jacket in the webbing on the outside and decent space inside. Neat enough on the bars too.

    Thinking of pulling the trigger on one of these, do you have a picture of it on your bike?


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