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Corballis

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Comments

  • #152
    willabur
    Registered Users Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭willabur


    where are the ratings published?


  • #153
    blue note
    Registered Users Posts: 4,500 ✭✭✭blue note


    http://ncrdb.usga.org/

    https://www.calculator.net/golf-handicap-calculator.html

    Course ratings and calculator above. I put in my best 8 scores in corballis into it and came out with a handicap index of 18.6. This is before I started playing really badly since the courses reopened. My current handicap is 13.7.

    With that handicap index I'm coming out with a playing handicap of 16/18 in corballis from the whites / blues and 22/24 in tramore (the course I'd be most familiar with) from the whites / blues.


  • #154
    gypsy79
    Registered Users Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭gypsy79


    blue note wrote: »
    I could be misunderstanding the rankings, but as I understand it corballis is essentially ranked as very easy. Of all the ones I checked it looks like the one everyone will have the lowest handicap on.

    On the really windy days I've seen mid 20s win competitions. I can't imagine there'll be any adjustment in the new system to reflect conditions that difficult?

    But overall, I reckon it is a very easy course relative to others for a lot of golfers. The fact that it is so short was always going yo lead to a very easy ranking. But the majority of golfers are quite old and distance is a huge factor for them. A 380m par 4 might be a driver, 7 iron to a lot of us, but it can be a driver 3 wood to older golfers. So even with the small greens and danger everywhere, it might still be a better course to pick up a good score on for most golfers.

    For me I reckon I'm going to have a very high handicap index as a result of this. I find it very difficult relative to others so if I'm putting in a lot from +15 to +25 on an east course that'll lead to a high handicap index. And I reckon I'll find away courses much easier to put in good scores on.

    No you are correct. It is going to be very interesting.....Corballis may become the new bandits to beware of!


  • #155
    blue note
    Registered Users Posts: 4,500 ✭✭✭blue note


    gypsy79 wrote: »
    No you are correct. It is going to be very interesting.....Corballis may become the new bandits to beware of!

    Not through manipulation of the system though, just from a failing of it. No system is going to be perfect for everyone.

    What would be interesting to see is what the performance of visitors are on average nationally. Then to compare it to visitors in corballis and to corballis members on other courses. We'll never see those stats I assume, but that would be the test for me to see how accurate the course ratings are.

    I think the ratings should consider those stats and adjust accordingly, but I don't think they will. I think courses can get reassessed, but it'll be on the same criteria. If the problem was not the application of the criteria, but rather the suitability of the criteria for the course in question it will make no difference.


  • #156
    gypsy79
    Registered Users Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭gypsy79


    blue note wrote: »
    Not through manipulation of the system though, just from a failing of it. No system is going to be perfect for everyone.

    What would be interesting to see is what the performance of visitors are on average nationally. Then to compare it to visitors in corballis and to corballis members on other courses. We'll never see those stats I assume, but that would be the test for me to see how accurate the course ratings are.

    I think the ratings should consider those stats and adjust accordingly, but I don't think they will. I think courses can get reassessed, but it'll be on the same criteria. If the problem was not the application of the criteria, but rather the suitability of the criteria for the course in question it will make no difference.

    It wasnt an accusation....totally a weakness in the system

    But the rating is on a fixed set of rules too! So it cant be fixed that way either!


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  • #157
    willabur
    Registered Users Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭willabur


    would be interesting to see the impact on the interclub comps


  • #158
    gypsy79
    Registered Users Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭gypsy79


    willabur wrote: »
    would be interesting to see the impact on the interclub comps

    Should favour the clubs with lower slope I think


  • #159
    blue note
    Registered Users Posts: 4,500 ✭✭✭blue note


    gypsy79 wrote: »
    Should favour the clubs with lower slope I think

    Not if the lower rating is appropriate. It should favour clubs with lower ratings than they should have.


  • #160
    gypsy79
    Registered Users Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭gypsy79


    blue note wrote: »
    Not if the lower rating is appropriate. It should favour clubs with lower ratings than they should have.

    It equals out the flaws in the current system.

    For example currently a 5 handicapper in Portmarnock is a much better player than a 5 in Elmgreen lets say

    But now they should be equal standard unless some ratings/slopes are incorrect


  • #161
    blue note
    Registered Users Posts: 4,500 ✭✭✭blue note


    gypsy79 wrote: »
    It equals out the flaws in the current system.

    For example currently a 5 handicapper in Portmarnock is a much better player than a 5 in Elmgreen lets say

    But now they should be equal standard unless some ratings/slopes are incorrect

    They should have been in the old system because of course standard scratch. But they weren't. In the case of a friend of mine he moved club and found it easier to maintain his +1 handicap. Because in his original club he needed to shoot -1 to not get .1 back. Whereas in his new course he'd get cut for that. Simply put, he finds keeping the low handicap easier on the tougher rated course.

    The example you gave might also be true, it just comes down to the accuracy of the difficulty rating of the courses.

    The same will be true for the new system. If the rating doesn't accurately reflect the difficulty of the course, it will give handicaps out of whack with what people should have. This can go either way.

    I just checked my last round as a member in tramore for how many points I'd get under my new handicap. Admittedly it was my best ever round - 41 points on the day off 13 (with two 0 pointers). From my new handicap that would be 50 points. And I don't think my game is a million miles from back then. I'd actually be uncomfortable submitting a good score in tramore with a high handicap like that.


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  • #162
    Felexicon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Felexicon


    4 hours to get around today! Bit of a slog. Course is over booked on weekends


  • #163
    jamesbondings
    Registered Users Posts: 2,201 ✭✭✭jamesbondings


    Hey lads, very last minute. Any members of corballis fancy a round this evening around 5ish?want to try get the handicap sorted so need a member to sign for me.

    Pm me if ya fancy it! If ya can, let me know ASAP, takes me about 40 mins to get there.
    Thanks in advance


  • #164
    Felexicon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Felexicon


    Felexicon wrote: »
    4 hours to get around today! Bit of a slog. Course is over booked on weekends

    So it's not just the weekends.

    Played this evening and have to say it's the first time I haven't enjoyed a round there.

    Constant waiting for groups ahead. No sign of being let through. Had to skip a few holes just to try and get a rhythm going. 1 clear hole then backed up again.

    Nearly took a ball to the back of the head on the 7th.

    I think 10 minute gaps are too short there as you have people searching for balls on so many holes.

    Place is crying out for a Marshall to keep the pace up.

    Cant see myself renewing membership


  • #165
    ryaner777
    Registered Users Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭ryaner777


    Played tonight as well but we flew around.

    2 ball, we tee'd off at 4:30.

    3 ball in front went out just after 4.

    We caught them on the 8th tee and they let us play through. Round took 3 hours 10 in total.

    I'd say I caused about 45 mins of that by loosing balls. Was going great up to the 12th. Lost my approach into the hill to the left of the green and had to go back and play another. Ended up scratching the hole by trying to force a recovery.

    I was 24 PTS after 11 and that killed the momentum. Game went off the rails after that and finished with 27 PTS.

    But it was a nice fast round and a cracking evening weather wise.


  • #166
    RoadRunner
    Registered Users Posts: 1,907 ✭✭✭RoadRunner


    Felexicon wrote: »
    Nearly took a ball to the back of the head on the 7th.

    I had a ball land on the green on 7 while we were still on it. Someone having a pop at the green with lads still on it :mad:
    edit: I think we were also nearly hit on the 3rd hole by the same lad.


  • #167
    brick tamland
    Registered Users Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭brick tamland


    Felexicon wrote: »
    So it's not just the weekends.

    Played this evening and have to say it's the first time I haven't enjoyed a round there.

    Constant waiting for groups ahead. No sign of being let through. Had to skip a few holes just to try and get a rhythm going. 1 clear hole then backed up again.

    Nearly took a ball to the back of the head on the 7th.

    I think 10 minute gaps are too short there as you have people searching for balls on so many holes.

    Place is crying out for a Marshall to keep the pace up.

    Cant see myself renewing membership

    It can always happen out there, all it takes is one group who are not used to the course and hit driver off everywhere to back up the whole course for the best part of a day.


  • #168
    blue note
    Registered Users Posts: 4,500 ✭✭✭blue note


    I think people unreasonably expecting quick rounds are being unreasonable. It's exceptionally short, but very easy to lose a ball on. If your group has to look for a couple of balls, the group behind will catch up. That happened to me on Monday. We called the group behind through while we looked for our last. We rejoined after they played trough and the group behind had to wait for us. Then on the next two holes we had to wait for the group in front of us to look for balls. If they'd called us through again we'd probably have been all day calling each other through.

    When I go out on any course I expect about 4 hours for a fourball, including on corballis. Unless the course is very quiet there's going to be lost balls slowing the course down. If I get around quicker then great. If I'm a few minutes behind I won't stress about it.


  • #169
    Felexicon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Felexicon


    blue note wrote: »
    I think people unreasonably expecting quick rounds are being unreasonable. It's exceptionally short, but very easy to lose a ball on. If your group has to look for a couple of balls, the group behind will catch up. That happened to me on Monday. We called the group behind through while we looked for our last. We rejoined after they played trough and the group behind had to wait for us. Then on the next two holes we had to wait for the group in front of us to look for balls. If they'd called us through again we'd probably have been all day calling each other through.

    When I go out on any course I expect about 4 hours for a fourball, including on corballis. Unless the course is very quiet there's going to be lost balls slowing the course down. If I get around quicker then great. If I'm a few minutes behind I won't stress about it.

    It's not a time expectancy but rather a want to be able to get in to some sort of rhythm and groups to acknowledge when they are holding people up.
    Take last night. Group on front is just teeing off as we reach the tee. One of them drills it in to rough 10 yards ahead of him. No bother we've all been there. The problem is all 4 of them search for the ball for 5 or 6 minutes while we just stand and look at them. They could easily have allowed us tee off and we'd be at our ball by the time their search was done


  • #170
    blue note
    Registered Users Posts: 4,500 ✭✭✭blue note


    Felexicon wrote: »
    It's not a time expectancy but rather a want to be able to get in to some sort of rhythm and groups to acknowledge when they are holding people up.
    Take last night. Group on front is just teeing off as we reach the tee. One of them drills it in to rough 10 yards ahead of him. No bother we've all been there. The problem is all 4 of them search for the ball for 5 or 6 minutes while we just stand and look at them. They could easily have allowed us tee off and we'd be at our ball by the time their search was done

    I'm not saying it's perfect and there's plenty more examples of similar to what you describe I'm sure.

    But on a course where it's that easy to lose a ball or need to look for it, there's always going to be hold ups. You'll save time playing there because it's shorter and lose time because people will l for balls. The two roughly balance out in my experience.

    Those people should obviously have called you through. But would I be right in suspecting that they caught up with the group ahead shortly after? So your round didn't take any longer, it's just the stop start side of it that was upset? Which is annoying.

    The days of fourballs averaging 3 and a half a hours are long gone. Courses are longer and tougher, people are hitting the ball longer but not straighter, golfers are older. What hasn't changed is people's expectation of how long a round should take, especially people who were playing 20 years ago. And it's not going to go backwards, because people want to hit the ball further, they want a "true test of golf" which translates as tough courses and golfers certainly aren't getting younger. So unless people change their expectations, they'll be regularly frustrated.

    You are right though that corballis will be more stop start than other courses. So if it's just rhythm that bothers you other courses might be more enjoyable for you. On top of looking for balls, you also have a wait to tee off or people to walk past you, or wait to walk by a tee on 1,10, 14,15,16,18. 15 / 16 can be terrible bottlenecks, where people can be too polite and let you hit when they really need to walk on, or worse hit when they shouldn't and land a ball near you. Plus you have people going for greens on par 4s which can slow everything down.


  • #171
    hurleronditch
    Registered Users Posts: 656 ✭✭✭hurleronditch


    blue note wrote: »
    Plus you have people going for greens on par 4s which can slow everything down.

    I think 11 and the bell are the worst for this, I’ve gotten snagged there the last two times I’ve played. Putting the bell on the green suggests that this is a hole you should/could have a go at. The amount of time I’ve stood on that tee box waiting for a group is crazy, lads marching around on top of the mound looking for a sliced drive they havent a hope of finding. The worst thing is even if you hit a sweet one it’s very very hard to hold that green so it’s not overly productive thing to do anyways.

    Also completely separately the barber pole fairway marker is such a joke there. Going straight at it is the worst line to take, 10 yards left with a 7 iron if your laying up, 30 yards right of it with a driver or 3 wood if your going at it are the lines. No wonder people get frustrated with the place


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  • #172
    blue note
    Registered Users Posts: 4,500 ✭✭✭blue note


    It's a shocker for congestion, but you're definitely right to look for your ball there. It's not the worst area to find your ball at all.

    You need to send a spotter up onto the hill on that hole. Generally speaking, the next group will be still playing the hole anyway, so no time lost sending him up. But he will have to come back down and hit then. But you do have to wait for the group ahead to finish a par 4 before teeing off.

    And then you'd think the group ahead would make a bit of space between you for your tee shot on 12, but very often they slice one right and there's no space created!

    But overall my rounds there aren't longer than most courses. Just a bit more stop start. I met an older member in the car park after a round recently and he was giving out about how slow it was out there. We were in a fourball ahead of him and got around in 3 hours 45. That's not bad for a fourball.


  • #173
    willabur
    Registered Users Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭willabur


    11 is a pinch point alright,
    Lads waiting for 12th green to clear before they go for it in two is as big a culprit for congestion also.

    Overall though I find the flow of golf there to be pretty good. So much better than my previous club where it was an absolute slog (6 hours for a medal). For your standard 3 ball sunday comp I find the round flies around maybe because most people know where they are going and what they are doing.

    A couple of points which probably contribute to a recent worsening of the round times.
    * 150 new members, mostly high handicappers still getting to know the course and best etiquette when it comes to playing provisionals
    * There is alot of matchplay golf going on at the moment, matchplay especially 4 balls are notoriously slow


  • #174
    ryaner777
    Registered Users Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭ryaner777


    jamesbondings wrote: »
    Hey lads, very last minute. Any members of corballis fancy a round this evening around 5ish?want to try get the handicap sorted so need a member to sign for me.

    Pm me if ya fancy it! If ya can, let me know ASAP, takes me about 40 mins to get there.
    Thanks in advance


    I'll be heading out this afternoon if you still need to get your cards in ??


    If anyone else fancies the open give us a shout. Rain should stop by about 4 pm and the forecast for the evening looks really good.


  • #175
    dk1982
    Registered Users Posts: 252 ✭✭dk1982


    hurleronditch wrote: »

    Also completely separately the barber pole fairway marker is such a joke there. Going straight at it is the worst line to take, 10 yards left with a 7 iron if your laying up, 30 yards right of it with a driver or 3 wood if your going at it are the lines. No wonder people get frustrated with the place

    Disagree with this, i think the pole is spot on if youre laying up. any further left of it and you just roll back down the hill or into the bunker in view from tee box. 6/7 iron over it leaves me on top of the hill looking at green with 40ish yards to green


  • #176
    ryaner777
    Registered Users Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭ryaner777


    If the tee box is far left ( near the bunker on the 8th fairway ) then the pole is a perfect line.

    Any where right of that you need to adjust your tee shot if you're playing for the pole.

    The problem is the actual tee box (blue marker) is in the far right corner. This throws people way off when playing from there for the first time.


  • #177
    blue note
    Registered Users Posts: 4,500 ✭✭✭blue note


    It's a terrible hole to lay up on. If you go at all right of the pole you can easily go into that thick rough. In line with it or left of it and you're probably going to role down the slope. From there you'll have a blind shot most likely from a terrible lie.

    I think you're much better off going for it if you've the distance.


  • #178
    willabur
    Registered Users Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭willabur


    its a hole I cannot bring myself to love. Right of the marker with a 7 iron is my play each time but there is no consistent place to lay up on the hole. Too much luck involved

    @blue_note what would your average score on 11 be (while going for it)?


  • #179
    RoadRunner
    Registered Users Posts: 1,907 ✭✭✭RoadRunner


    willabur wrote: »
    its a hole I cannot bring myself to love. Right of the marker with a 7 iron is my play each time but there is no consistent place to lay up on the hole. Too much luck involved

    @blue_note what would your average score on 11 be (while going for it)?

    How far do you carry your 7i?


  • #180
    willabur
    Registered Users Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭willabur


    RoadRunner wrote: »
    How far do you carry your 7i?

    170 yards


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  • #181
    blue note
    Registered Users Posts: 4,500 ✭✭✭blue note


    willabur wrote: »
    its a hole I cannot bring myself to love. Right of the marker with a 7 iron is my play each time but there is no consistent place to lay up on the hole. Too much luck involved

    @blue_note what would your average score on 11 be (while going for it)?

    According to hdid 4.5. I pretty much always go for it, so that's probably fairly close to my going for it score.

    From 17 attempts, I've 1 scratch, 1 double and the rest bogies and pars. I've had a few birds on it, but they must all have been out of comp. I've also certainly scratched it more than once too, but the others must have been out of comp too. And I've three putted it too many times too.

    For me, if I hit it where I hope to it'll be on the green. If I pull it a bit I'll have the distance to carry everything and have a pitch back. If I slice it I'll lose distance too and you often find a decent lie from that area.

    I did stop going for it after the lock down because the ground was so hard. I wouldn't have held the green then. That's when I really grew to hate that run down area. It's like playing out of sand. And you're at an awkward distance and blind.


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