Flight 19

ykt0di9url7bc3 · 30-05-2004 1:02am #1

It was on a beautiful, sunny Florida afternoon, December 5, 1945 when Flight 19 (five TBM Avengers) climbed into the sky above NAS Fort Lauderdale, FL. They turned east over the Atlantic on the first leg of a routine exercise and rendezvous with the unknown — a rendezvous from which the 14 men of Flight 19 would never return. The same fate met the 13-man crew of a PBM Mariner sent out to rescue them.....

This always boggled me when i was young

It is now the central mystery of the legend of the "Bermuda Triangle." Much has been written and speculated about the Triangle, a stretch of ocean credited by some as being "the graveyard of the Atlantic," home of the forbidding Saragasso Sea.

The "Triangle" is an area whose boundaries stretch roughly from Miami to the Bermuda Islands, southward to Puerto Rico and west to the Florida Keys. Reports as far back as 1840 assert that men, ships and aircraft have disappeared with alarming regularity. Why? It depends on whom you talk to.

Some claim that this Voodoo Sea is a maritime vortex, that supernatural forces are at work. Others assert that strange magnetic and natural forces unique to the area and unknown to modern science are responsible for the disappearances.

Some even say creatures from outer space claimed the victims. Still more believe that with the heavy sea and high density traffic moving through the area, it is inevitable that some unexplained "incidents" happen. But no matter what the argument or rationale, there is something oddly intriguing about these occurrences, particularly the "normal" circumstance that is always reported prior to each incident

Whatever speculations and skepticism people may have anything paranormal...but reading the comm logs of the pilots stirs once of the worlds greatest mysteries...

I cant even begin to formulate what i think what happened, i'm interested in other peoples opinions on "the lost patrol" and the bermuda area in general

keu · 30-05-2004 1:09am

I read a couple of years ago of a very good explanation. It had something to do with earthquakes (or some force of natural phenomena) shifting the ocean bed...and releasing huge amounts of gas, which would explode to the surface (big bubbles:) taking ships planes and anything in the area down, enveloping them with force and submerging them...never to be seen again.
Can't locate relevant material at the minute..but will do a search and see what I can find.

ykt0di9url7bc3 · 30-05-2004 1:11am

Oh gas

yeah...

but that has fundamental flaws

joePC · 30-05-2004 1:14am

I say, Paranormal does not exsist, everything starange that happens on this planet can be explained logically....

I mean where is there any real proof of Paranormal activity..........

UFO's = Bull****

Ghosts = Bull****

Wheres the proof......:dunno:

keu · 30-05-2004 1:16am

maybe it was aliens.

I mean where is there any real proof of Paranormal activity..........

Both governments of the united states and russia currently apply and research of areas of psi.

The Cognitive Sciences Laboratory adopts a conservative approach to the research of anomalous mental phenomena. We make the assumption that all such phenomena will eventually be understood within the context of physical science. As a consequence we question dualistic, or mystical, approaches to these presently anomalous phenomena.

For over 20 years, the Cognitive Sciences Laboratory has been the center for government-sponsored parapsychology research in support of its intelligence program most recently known as STAR GATE.

As a result of a Congressionally Directed Activity, the Central Intelligence Agency conducted an evaluation of a 24-year, government-sponsored program to investigate ESP and its potential use within the Intelligence Community. The American Institutes for Research was contracted to conduct the review of both research and operations

http://lfr.org/csl/index.html

official site.

how you think they found Saddam?

ykt0di9url7bc3 · 30-05-2004 1:25am

Originally posted by joePC
I say, Paranormal does not exsist, everything starange that happens on this planet can be explained logically....

I mean where is there any real proof of Paranormal activity..........

par·a·nor·mal ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pr-nôrml)
adj.
Beyond the range of normal experience or scientific explanation

it fits when Flight 19 is concerned... I dont think there will be a logical explanation for what happened

30-05-2004 2:20am

Whilst I am determined to be accepting to all beliefs on such sensitive subjects, I cannot let statements along the lines of "such stories are bull****" go without some confrontation.

I'm not sure as to the extent of your research, but i'm sure you have read the cases of encounters from souls beyond the grave, getting in touch with their successors and informing them as to events which may take place (many of whom seem to benefit from such encounters, such as being informed not to travel on such a trip, as was the case in the Titanic, in which one survivor told how they were visited by a relative who had been dead for several years and was informed that they should not take the trip. They didn't and hence, survived.

I like to hear stories about such encounters, but I firmly believe that such things can take place...why not? So many real-life cases ( a lot in modern day, so we're told) take place, indicating that people cannot simply be partaking in a world-wide plot to confuse the people of this earth...this planet has many phenomena which cannot be explained thus far, and it will be interesting to see whether anyone will be able to prove wrong such theories.

Over the centuries, more reported cases of supernatural phenomena have occured (increasing towards the dawn of the 20th century, dispelling any belief that people may simply have been "stupid" in the earlier days)

MeatProduct · 30-05-2004 10:20am

At some stage I do recall reading a book that touched on the Bermuda Triangle. For what I can remember that area has some important geographical/astrological significance and as a result has a very specific energy vibration. There is a mirrored location on the opposite location of the globe that, whle not as travelled, also has unexplained disappearances.

My view on this would be that there is an energy vortex there that shifted the vibrational frequency of the energies that have passed through the vortex.

Nick

keu · 30-05-2004 12:44pm

My view on this would be that there is an energy vortex there that shifted the vibrational frequency of the energies that have passed through the vortex

would you consider this as a form of natural phenomena, just currently unexplained natural phenomena?

stormkeeper · 30-05-2004 2:41pm

Hmm... When I got onto that site, my spine started tingling... That's usually my intuition at action. I'm beginning to think that there's more to the Bermuda Triangle than we all know...

keu · 30-05-2004 2:48pm

portal into another dimension?

I think some natural phenomena which is still unaccounted for holds a good explanation, anything from varying magentic fields reacting with or combining with particular forms of radiation or gases, (which could result in a portal or vortex) possibly altering the physical dimensions normally percieved, or simply just vaporising any objects it comes into contact with.

don't know really.

my friend is pretty sure its as a result of the earth farting though..imagine igniting that stuff?

seanos · 30-05-2004 2:57pm

Originally posted by joePC
UFO's = Bull****

Ghosts = Bull****

Wheres the proof......:dunno:

Where is the proof against ?
I'm not saying proove that an amatuer video of a saucer and a teaspoon is false, I'm saying give a proof that UFO's/Ghosts do not exist.

It is impossible, as it is also impossible to give a proof that they do exist. To go slightly off topic ; it is faith, or a belief - so moronic statements like "proove something which is unprooveable" seems a little like a 4 year old asking 'why' to everything

MeatProduct · 30-05-2004 3:04pm

Originally posted by remote viewer
would you consider this as a form of natural phenomena, just currently unexplained natural phenomena?

Well I honestly have no idea about it's origins. That theory works well for me though so I'll stick with it until I hear something else that compels me.

Nick

keu · 30-05-2004 3:12pm

I'm saying give a proof that UFO's/Ghosts do not exist.

I think the issue is not do they exist, because they obviously do.UFO= unidentified flying object..the issue arises when trying to identify what they are.
Highly classified Govt projects?
Intergalactic transportation?
Considering time travel is theoretically possible, theoretically at some time in the future means of travelling through time have been utilised and ufo's are future humans traversing our skies?
There is a range of possibilities..but the fact is UFO's DO exist. Just still unidentified.

Ghosts? There are gazillions of testimonies to validate such occurances, again the question remains..what are they?
Projections of the subconscious?
Forms of plasma or radiation which become apparant on contact with human electromagnetic energy?
Illusions?
Its not that they don't exist, according to data collected, they Do exist, but there is no scientific definition as to what they are.

It gets my goat when skeptics treat people interested in the area of paranormal like retards for wanting to understand that which is not explicable by current scientific methods.

stormkeeper · 30-05-2004 3:30pm

Originally posted by remote viewer
portal into another dimension?

I think some natural phenomena which is still unaccounted for holds a good explanation, anything from varying magentic fields reacting with or combining with particular forms of radiation or gases, (which could result in a portal or vortex) possibly altering the physical dimensions normally percieved, or simply just vaporising any objects it comes into contact with.

don't know really.

my friend is pretty sure its as a result of the earth farting though..imagine igniting that stuff?

There seems to be 12 of them around the world...

keu · 30-05-2004 3:32pm

I wonder sometimes am I living in one

can you provide link?

stormkeeper · 30-05-2004 3:55pm

Here ye go: http://www.bermuda-triangle.org/html/the__triangle__machine_.html

keu · 30-05-2004 4:16pm

Long before John Hutchison began his pioneering experiments into electromagnetism and alternative energy, travelers in the Bermuda Triangle had reported odd occurrences involving electromagnetism: their ships or planes would be seized by a strange vapor, then all equipment would go haywire; unexplained fogs would sit over the ocean, yet in all cases the weather was not right for creating fogs, and there was certainly no reason for electromagnetic aberrations such as they reported.
These were, in due course, put down in the category of “sea lore,” sensationalism, or attributed to occultists trying to push their supernatural views of nature. It didn’t seem to matter that most of those reporting them were veteran pilots, shipmasters, and even Coast Guard officers.
These unusual phenomena quickly formed the backbone of the “mythos” of the Bermuda Triangle, the enigma of unexplained “forces,” hints of the laws of nature running wild, of possible time warps, interdimensional transition, wormholes, and invisibility. To speak about them is to speak about the “supernatural,” the impossible, and the occult . . .until now.

woooo..my theory was pretty close to the mark (hadn't read this theory before) for some reason, I always consider electromagnetism is the source of the inexplicable.
Good stuff.

MeatProduct · 30-05-2004 4:27pm

Originally posted by remote viewer
woooo..my theory was pretty close to the mark (hadn't read this theory before) for some reason, I always consider electromagnetism is the source of the inexplicable.
Good stuff.

I'd agree with you there. Certain electro-magnetic devices have the ability to tap into higher-dimensional energies.

Nick

stormkeeper · 30-05-2004 4:43pm

It does make you wonder if it has the potential to happen somewhere else asides from those 12 "hotspots"

D-Generate · 30-05-2004 4:47pm

There was a program on network 2 not so long ago that had a pretty impressive explanation as to what happened on Flight 19. The original flight path was to take them some where over the Bahamas. However for some reason the flight commander (Taylor) thought the flight had started out in the wrong direction and had headed south toward the Keys, instead of east.
The consequences of this were that he kept trying to head north east in order to get away from the Keys and back to Florida but in reality was heading north east from the Bahamas and further in to the Atlantic. Transmissions were picked up where some of the students were telling Taylor to head west because then they would get home, which was correct. Even ground control told Taylor to hand command over to one of the students because they knew that he was hopelessly lost, however he did not and then continued to head further out to sea.
It wasn't long before they would of ran out of fuel so more than likely they crashed someway out in the sea.
The Martin Mariner planes were renowned for exploding due to the mere presence of a single spark. The crew of a nearby ship to the takeoff base observed an explosion over the water shortly after the Mariner had taken off. They headed toward the site and there they saw what looked like oil and airplane debris floating on the surface. None of it was recovered because of the bad weather, but there seems little doubt this was the remains of the Mariner.
Thus the mystery is solved!
Oh and incase anyone is wondering how he confused the islands, it is generally thought that he was at the southern Bermuda islands which he mistook for the Florida Key islants. They look quite similar as all islands do.

keu · 30-05-2004 5:37pm

However for some reason the flight commander (Taylor) thought the flight had started out in the wrong direction and had headed south toward the Keys, instead of east.

I'm assuming there are flight recording instruments on the martin mariner planes?

In 1974, twenty-nine years after Flight 19's famous disappearence, a report on American TV claimed that newly released government papers included a record of the leader of Flight 19's last word's to his pilots.

The Weird Case of Flight 19.

When a squadron of five US Navy Avenger Torpedo bombers vanished 'as if through a hole in the sky', a Martin Mariner flying boat with a crew of 13 was sent out to find them. When this big rescue craft also disappeared, the biggest-ever ground-sea search was mounted. No clues were ever found as to what happened to the six planes which vanished in the Bermuda Triangle area.

'Last Contact' Clues.
Flight 19's leader had reported that they could see no land, were off-course and lost. When told by the airbase control tower to fly west, the leader said, "We don't know which way is west. Evrything's wrong... strange. We can't be sure of any direction... even the ocean doesn't look as it should... "

Airbase radio contact with Flight 19 then brokedown, but the pilots could be heard, saying that their gyros and compasses were 'going crazy', and giving different readings. All contact was then lost. Last messages from the other craft lost in the same area are similar, reporting 'white water', a 'green haze', 'instruments going haywire', followed by loss of radio contact.

flight 19

D-Generate · 30-05-2004 10:08pm

The training squad were flying Avenger aircraft. There was not much navigational equipment back then other than, compass, map, your eyes. Out at sea it is very easy to get lost with out any distinguishable landmarks. In times of stress a person may get tunnel vision and may be convinced that what they are doing is the right thing, presumably this is what happened to Taylor.
Since they were heading away from the coast it would not be long until they would be out of radar and radio range. A flight base further north up the coast detected them for a short while after the were lost from their original base because they were still within their radio range but again they were lost as they went further out.
The avenger aircraft were often known as "Iron Birds" because they weighed so much. After hitting the water they would go down in a couple of seconds so a surface search of the area would prove pretty fruitless.

minority · 30-05-2004 10:20pm

Originally posted by MoonHawk
I'm not sure as to the extent of your research, but i'm sure you have read the cases of encounters from souls beyond the grave, getting in touch with their successors and informing them as to events which may take place (many of whom seem to benefit from such encounters, such as being informed not to travel on such a trip, as was the case in the Titanic, in which one survivor told how they were visited by a relative who had been dead for several years and was informed that they should not take the trip. They didn't and hence, survived.

All the dead relatives of the thousand odd people who didnt warn them not to go on the Titanic were some bastards though weren't they

I have a question that i have asked many many people who believe in ghosts and their dead relatives looking down on them all the time to look after them. I think it hads ruined some poples lives, so please look away before i ask the question.

'What do you do about theses dead relatives watching you when you are having a ****?'

keu · 30-05-2004 10:23pm

The avenger aircraft were often known as "Iron Birds" because they weighed so much. After hitting the water they would go down in a couple of seconds so a surface search of the area would prove pretty fruitless.

very true. I was wondering if it would be possible to try and locate by way of radar any remains lying at the bottom of the ocean by todays standards.

It seems to me that the location of the rescue plane which went missing, is known as eye witness' reported an explosion which seems to pinpoint.
But I find it hard to comprehend that five other planes all went down and left no traceable evidence.

I also believe that the electro-magnetical anomolies associated with the area probably had some impact on the navigational equipment.
Good story though.

keu · 30-05-2004 10:26pm

'What do you do about theses dead relatives watching you when you are having a ****?

try not to think about them LOL.

tonky · 30-05-2004 11:28pm

:
'What do you do about theses dead relatives watching you when you are having a ****?

Same as you do when they're looking over your shoulder when you're watching at a good porno. Clear your mind and focus on the task in hand.

bug · 31-05-2004 8:18pm

eh...I think the topic if fligght 19, unfortunatley, there is another thread where you can discuss masturbating and dead relatives, which against my better judgement will be left open for now:rolleyes:

MeatProduct · 04-06-2004 3:13pm

While doing a bit of research on this I came across an article that reported that a diving team had found a pyramid on the ocean floor at the centre of the Bermuda Triangle. It said that it was similar to the ones in Giza and that it was possibly responsible for the strange activity in that area.

I can not back this up so I'm just putting it out there as an interesting theory.

What I find more interesting, however, is that Atlantis was supposed to be located here.

Nick

ykt0di9url7bc3 · 05-06-2004 7:48pm

civilisation before the great melt of the last Ice age

Flight 19

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