Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

The Lost Sheep · 09-10-2020 7:40pm

Deleted User wrote: »

His overall defensive game is excellent, he hits plenty of rucks and uses his strength well at the breakdown. He has no problem taking contact from forwards and regularly comes in field for work.

Like all backs, he will occasionally get mis footed and make a poor cover tackle attempt.

His form since lockdown has been so so. He's still going to be first choice the second he is available.

I dont think his defensive game is excellent at all. and he wont be first choice the second he's available. Likely will be in and around squads but not going to be clear first choice

Buer · 09-10-2020 9:05pm

aloooof wrote: »

Not sure I agree tbh. They've a comparable number of starts, but Daly's appearances are much more evenly spread between Wing and FB. He's got far more experience at centre too, doesn't he? .

Yes, comfortably. Keenan has one appearance at 13 for Leinster A two years ago to my knowledge. Any senior showing has been at 15 or 14.

Daly has started at 11, 14 and 15 for Munster as well as several starts at 13 for Munster A, for Cork Con and was a 13 at underage right up to starting the JWC final at 13.

It's moot anyway. I can't see beyond Aki and Ringrose in the centre and I can't see beyond Henshaw in the 23 jersey as a result. Even if Henshaw is out, I'd consider Farrell the front runner.

thomond2006 · 09-10-2020 9:07pm

I didn't realise Keenan was a few months older than Shane Daly. I assumed Keenan was 20/21?!

Buer · 09-10-2020 9:15pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I dont think his defensive game is excellent at all. and he wont be first choice the second he's available. Likely will be in and around squads but not going to be clear first choice

Tend to agree. He very much defends like someone who is used to be being more powerful than opponents and doesn't have to rely on technique or footwork to get himself into the right position.

One on one against a good attacker, I don't have much more faith in Lowe than I would Stockdale. The Leinster system and work rate inside him rarely sees him in such situations though.

Buer · 09-10-2020 9:17pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

I didn't realise Keenan was a few months older than Shane Daly. I assumed Keenan was 20/21?!

Nah, was on the 7s circuit for a while and when he was primed to make a breakthrough in 2018/19 he had to have surgery which coincided with the 6N period when he'd have been starting.

sydthebeat · 09-10-2020 9:19pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

I didn't realise Keenan was a few months older than Shane Daly. I assumed Keenan was 20/21?!

Keenan was from the same u20s grade as james Ryan, Andrew Porter, Stockdale and Deegan.

Unfortunately he was kept out by a collar bone injury for a long while

09-10-2020 9:33pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I dont think his defensive game is excellent at all. and he wont be first choice the second he's available. Likely will be in and around squads but not going to be clear first choice

We'll have to agree to disagree - I think he'll walk into the team based on the last 3 years.

Richie_Rich89 · 09-10-2020 9:37pm

Buer wrote: »

Yes, comfortably. Keenan has one appearance at 13 for Leinster A two years ago to my knowledge. Any senior showing has been at 15 or 14.

Daly has started at 11, 14 and 15 for Munster as well as several starts at 13 for Munster A, for Cork Con and was a 13 at underage right up to starting the JWC final at 13.

It's moot anyway. I can't see beyond Aki and Ringrose in the centre and I can't see beyond Henshaw in the 23 jersey as a result. Even if Henshaw is out, I'd consider Farrell the front runner.

I don't remember him starting on the right wing for Munster. When was that?

Squidgy Black · 09-10-2020 10:04pm

I refuse to put any faith into Keenan until he gets rid of that poxy mullet.

mfceiling · 09-10-2020 10:29pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We'll have to agree to disagree - I think he'll walk into the team based on the last 3 years.

Ah now Venjur tearing it up for your province might, and I mean might get you in to camp, but if you don't show it in training then it's back to your province and a myriad of reasons as to why the incumbent held on to his jersey!!

aloooof · 09-10-2020 10:30pm

Buer wrote: »

Yes, comfortably. Keenan has one appearance at 13 for Leinster A two years ago to my knowledge. Any senior showing has been at 15 or 14.

Daly has started at 11, 14 and 15 for Munster as well as several starts at 13 for Munster A, for Cork Con and was a 13 at underage right up to starting the JWC final at 13.

It's moot anyway. I can't see beyond Aki and Ringrose in the centre and I can't see beyond Henshaw in the 23 jersey as a result. Even if Henshaw is out, I'd consider Farrell the front runner.

I had to go back to remind myself what happened in the 6 Nations, but judging from that I think this is spot on.

We played 11. Stockdale 14. Conway 15. Larmour for all 3 matches. I think there’s a strong likelihood we’ll see the same for the upcoming games.

With regards centre, and the 23 jersey, it seems one of the few times we had all 3 of Aki, Henshaw and Ringrose fit Farrell went with 12. Aki, 13. Ringrose and 23. Henshaw.

I do fear tho that the bigger reason all of this is moot is because of the great big Covid caveat, thru players potentially having to self-isolate. Lets hope it won’t have too much of an impact, just from human level, let alone anything to do with rugby.

AbusesToilets · 09-10-2020 10:41pm

mfceiling wrote: »

Ah now Venjur tearing it up for your province might, and I mean might get you in to camp, but if you don't show it in training then it's back to your province and a myriad of reasons as to why the incumbent held on to his jersey!!

Sure he's probably got two years of camp presence ahead of him before he could even be considered for a bench spot on a summer tour.

10-10-2020 10:38am

mfceiling wrote: »

Ah now Venjur tearing it up for your province might, and I mean might get you in to camp, but if you don't show it in training then it's back to your province and a myriad of reasons as to why the incumbent held on to his jersey!!

I fully agree with you - I'm generally loathe to anoint the shiny new talent.

On the other hand I've watched every minute of Lowe in blue and he is the most dynamic back three player in the country, has heaps of knock out rugby under his belt and whilst he has his share of weaknesses - I think he is a cut above just about every other option we have in terms of his impact on the pitch.

I'm completely open to the possibility that I'm over rating him, but I'm fairly convinced from what I've seen that he's a guaranteed starter for Ireland when eligible.

mfceiling · 10-10-2020 10:43am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I fully agree with you - I'm generally loathe to anoint the shiny new talent.

On the other hand I've watched every minute of Lowe in blue and he is the most dynamic back three player in the country, has heaps of knock out rugby under his belt and whilst he has his share of weaknesses - I think he is a cut above just about every other option we have in terms of his impact on the pitch.

I'm completely open to the possibility that I'm over rating him, but I'm fairly convinced from what I've seen that he's a guaranteed starter for Ireland when eligible.

Here's hoping!! A genuine threat in the backline is no bad thing.

salmocab · 10-10-2020 10:48am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I fully agree with you - I'm generally loathe to anoint the shiny new talent.

On the other hand I've watched every minute of Lowe in blue and he is the most dynamic back three player in the country, has heaps of knock out rugby under his belt and whilst he has his share of weaknesses - I think he is a cut above just about every other option we have in terms of his impact on the pitch.

I'm completely open to the possibility that I'm over rating him, but I'm fairly convinced from what I've seen that he's a guaranteed starter for Ireland when eligible.

Whilst I wouldn’t over egg the certain starter bit I do think we’ve had people giving out about players being too stuck in systems and Lowe is the perfect antidote to that.

10-10-2020 9:56pm

So looks like Larmour could be out of the picture for a few weeks, Henderson could miss a few weeks also.

Could see Baird start against Italy now and I imagine there will be a call up to replace Larmour.

thomond2006 · 10-10-2020 10:24pm

This could be our most inexperienced back three ever in a Six Nations game. Keenan-Daly-Stockdale?

Edit: D'oh, forgot Conway. So it's between Keenan and Daly for the final spot.

Burkie1203 · 11-10-2020 5:37pm

Balls

https://twitter.com/CianTracey1/status/1315330643526651905?s=19

Tomtom364 · 11-10-2020 5:55pm

Presume someone will be called up to replace L'amour on Monday in the squad, only had 5 back 3 players initially, who would be next off the block? Rob lyttle? Whooton has been good? Mike Haley was involved in the RWC warm up squad?

Paul Smeenus · 11-10-2020 5:57pm

Poor Bobby Baloucoune has missed a golden opportunity.

11-10-2020 5:58pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Poor Bobby Baloucoune has missed a golden opportunity.

He really has. Even without the injuries to Earls and Larmour he had his hand well and truly up for selection.

When is he due back?

Paul Smeenus · 11-10-2020 6:04pm

It was "a number of months" in the press - I was under the impression it would be most of the season, but I don't know where I got that.

Paul Smeenus · 11-10-2020 6:05pm

On form, he'd have been ahead of Stockdale.

11-10-2020 6:27pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

On form, he'd have been ahead of Stockdale.

I seem to be the only one who is quietly impressed by Stockdale at fullback...

He's getting shown up plenty which is fine as he's learning the position - but he looks good going forward and he'll get a handle of the rest in time.

OneLungDavy · 11-10-2020 6:47pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I seem to be the only one who is quietly impressed by Stockdale at fullback...

He's getting shown up plenty which is fine as he's learning the position - but he looks good going forward and he'll get a handle of the rest in time.

He did have a great game last night from FB.

Paul Smeenus · 11-10-2020 7:33pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I seem to be the only one who is quietly impressed by Stockdale at fullback...

He's getting shown up plenty which is fine as he's learning the position - but he looks good going forward and he'll get a handle of the rest in time.

Is he learning it, though? He was a FB coming up, was he not? I think he's always maintained it was his favourite position.

Bazzo · 11-10-2020 7:55pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Is he learning it, though? He was a FB coming up, was he not? I think he's always maintained it was his favourite position.

I thought he mostly played and preferred (or used to) playing centre underage.

AdamD · 11-10-2020 7:59pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I seem to be the only one who is quietly impressed by Stockdale at fullback...

He's getting shown up plenty which is fine as he's learning the position - but he looks good going forward and he'll get a handle of the rest in time.

He has no interest in tackling, can't see that changing any time soon. Just doesn't seem to have the mentality for it

Buer · 11-10-2020 8:01pm

Bazzo wrote: »

I thought he mostly played and preferred (or used to) playing centre underage.

Has played 13 but more of a 15. Played there throughout the run to the JWC final in 2016 with Keenan on the wing.

bilston · 11-10-2020 8:10pm

Stockdale was excellent last night at FB and even last week was good going forward.

Last night he was superb under the high ball which was nice to see. He wasn't tested in terms of having to make tackles though.

Personally I think he is worth a start there against Italy and we will see how he fares at test level. In attack it could be quite exciting...defensively...we will see

11-10-2020 9:02pm

AdamD wrote: »

He has no interest in tackling

He wouldn't have gotten within ten arses roars of international rugby if that was the case.

There are a tiny handful of players who have made it to top flight rugby whilst also being a slight bit contact shy and Stockdale is not one of those.

Bazzo · 12-10-2020 9:28am

Buer wrote: »

Has played 13 but more of a 15. Played there throughout the run to the JWC final in 2016 with Keenan on the wing.

He played there for Ireland alright but I seem to remember that his usual position underage in schools/club rugby had been 13. He definitely said in an interview a few years back that 13 was his own preferred position.

kingofthekong · 12-10-2020 10:05am

I'd bring Lyttle in for Larmour, like for like. Or maybe Farrell will upgrade Lowe to the full squad

Tomtom364 · 12-10-2020 10:35am

kingofthekong wrote: »

I'd bring Lyttle in for Larmour, like for like. Or maybe Farrell will upgrade Lowe to the full squad

He is not eligible.

thomond2006 · 12-10-2020 10:35am

kingofthekong wrote: »

I'd bring Lyttle in for Larmour, like for like. Or maybe Farrell will upgrade Lowe to the full squad

Lowe isn't available to play so there's not much point in upgrading him.

I haven't seen Ulster or Connacht over the weekend but I'd assume it's between Wootton and Lyttle for the callup.

12-10-2020 10:41am

Have we any idea when Dave Kearney is back?

Paul Smeenus · 12-10-2020 10:48am

thomond2006 wrote: »

Lowe isn't available to play so there's not much point in upgrading him.

I haven't seen Ulster or Connacht over the weekend but I'd assume it's between Wootton and Lyttle for the callup.

Happy to admit bias, but I think Lyttle at least deserves to second time with the squad.

Guinness RFC · 12-10-2020 10:54am

So for Italy we’re looking at something like:

11. Keenan
15. Stockdale
14. Conway

Not too bad considering the amount of injuries.

Fullback options:
Stockdale
Daly
Keenan.

In my view Keenan is the best of the 3. Although Daly is very good Keenans positioning for me is just fantastic. He reads where the play/ball is going to end up so well case in point Treviso where he caught wide kicks without letting them bounce. That takes good reading of the play. The only thing going against him is lack of size/bulk for international rugby.

At least we have some good options starting to emerge in the wake of Kearney’s retirement. I don’t think Larmour or Stockdale are fullbacks for me although by all accounts Stockdale had a good game there on the weekend which I didn’t see.

StackSteevens · 12-10-2020 11:10am

On the topic of fullbacks, I see that Wasps have agreed with the Italian Rugby Federation that their talented fullback Minozzi can play for them in the GPL final rather than playing for his country against Ireland. Decent of the Italians to weaken their team which will help our 6 Nations campaign.

Burkie1203 · 12-10-2020 1:13pm

StackSteevens wrote: »

On the topic of fullbacks, I see that Wasps have agreed with the Italian Rugby Federation that their talented fullback Minozzi can play for them in the GPL final rather than playing for his country against Ireland. Decent of the Italians to weaken their team which will help our 6 Nations campaign.

It will still be a 25-30 point win for ireland

bilston · 12-10-2020 1:30pm

StackSteevens wrote: »

On the topic of fullbacks, I see that Wasps have agreed with the Italian Rugby Federation that their talented fullback Minozzi can play for them in the GPL final rather than playing for his country against Ireland. Decent of the Italians to weaken their team which will help our 6 Nations campaign.

Yeah, I was wondering what would have happened if Scotland were playing and Exeter had approached the SRU over Stuart Hogg.

To be fair Italy have nothing to play for, so Minozzi gets the chance of a medal and Italy get to try someone else, so it makes sense all round.

Burkie1203 · 12-10-2020 4:51pm

https://twitter.com/RuaidhriOC/status/1315680793776336898?s=19

Buer · 12-10-2020 4:58pm

So we're likely go be going into the double header with Ryan, Beirne and Roux as our locks. That will be fine for Italy but far from ideal for Paris.

There will be a lot depending on Henderson's suspension. One would imagine Wycherley gets a call up given he's already training with them although Dillane is deserving of one. There will be a temptation to parachute Toner back in but I'd be keep to avoid such a move.

molloyjh · 12-10-2020 5:17pm

So who of the remaining options are recognised line out callers? This could have a big bearing on whether Toner gets the call or not.

b.gud · 12-10-2020 5:23pm

molloyjh wrote: »

So who of the remaining options are recognised line out callers? This could have a big bearing on whether Toner gets the call or not.

Roux has been calling the lineout for Connacht for a good while now. I can't remember where I saw it but recently Connachts lineout has been one of the best in the pro14

Clegg · 12-10-2020 5:39pm

Beirne and Roux aren't test standard locks. Wouldn't have a problem with Beirne starting at 6 for Ireland, but I don't think he has the brawn for second row. Roux has the size but he's a middling player overall. Not many other options unfortunately. Ryan will have to work even harder.

It's a blow for Ireland that Baird is out too. Think he could be a superstar if given enough time.

sydthebeat · 12-10-2020 5:42pm

surely Toner is first off the rank to be called back up.
his lineout skills alone make him a no brainer for italy, and his link play suits as well.

he may not have the beef for France, but the french game will be moot without a 5 pointer against italy.

Jump_In_Jack · 12-10-2020 5:44pm

Gavin Thornbury an option?

Jump_In_Jack · 12-10-2020 5:47pm

Roux tight-side lock, with Ryan loose-side lock and Beirne off the bench would be grand for the Italy and France games.

Jump_In_Jack · 12-10-2020 6:02pm

I don’t think Wycherley at 6’4” is tall enough for an international lock.
His future must be at 6 as an enforcer type player, which he could be at International level.
I’d have him there for Munster ahead of O’Mahony already.

Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

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