Rank Irish political parties on their willingness to discriminate against men/similar

...Ghost... · 29-07-2019 4:14pm

Riskymove wrote: »

it is though.....it is far, far more a risk to women. Inoculating boys protects them and is another protection for women

It really isn't the point though. I don't disagree with the separate point you make, but it doesn't take away from the fact that they are not inoculating males to protect males. That's just a positive side effect.

Staying withe USA, as you brought it up, we see similar focus over there regarding men and women. According to the ACS and using the most common gender specific cancers, 174k Men will be diagnosed with Prostate cancer and 31k will die. 268k women will be diagnosed with breast cancer and 41k will die. Look at the attention breast cancer gets compared to prostate cancer and the men are dying in larger numbers. Also prostate cancer is seen most commonly from age 40, where breast cancer is most common for women over 50, so younger men are dying.

iptba · 29-07-2019 5:07pm

...Ghost... wrote: »

It really isn't the point though. I don't disagree with the separate point you make, but it doesn't take away from the fact that they are not inoculating males to protect males. That's just a positive side effect.

Staying withe USA, as you brought it up, we see similar focus over there regarding men and women. According to the ACS and using the most common gender specific cancers, 174k Men will be diagnosed with Prostate cancer and 31k will die. 268k women will be diagnosed with breast cancer and 41k will die. Look at the attention breast cancer gets compared to prostate cancer and the men are dying in larger numbers. Also prostate cancer is seen most commonly from age 40, where breast cancer is most common for women over 50, so younger men are dying.

You may have a general point on the cancers though with regard to the specifics, I think breast cancer does kill earlier on average.

With regard to the HPV, it is hard to know for definite how much if anything the fact that males being vaccinated would help females played in the decision but it seems plausible that it might have been a factor. Worldwide there does seem to be more women’s health entities than there are ones focused on men’s health. To an extent this can be justified due to pregnancy, breastfeeding and the like but their extent is a lot broader than that.

...Ghost... · 29-07-2019 8:40pm

iptba wrote: »

You may have a general point on the cancers though with regard to the specifics, I think breast cancer does kill earlier on average.

With regard to the HPV, it is hard to know for definite how much if anything the fact that males being vaccinated would help females played in the decision but it seems plausible that it might have been a factor. Worldwide there does seem to be more women’s health entities than there are ones focused on men’s health. To an extent this can be justified due to pregnancy, breastfeeding and the like but their extent is a lot broader than that.

Agreed on all points.

Though I would add that there is a 99% survival rate with breast cancer detected in the early stages. No such detection exists for men, as they don't have the same access to screening and the awareness levels are tiny in comparison. I was just making a general point without going into too much detail. I'm not sure the other poster was picking me up on the correct points.

AndrewJRenko · 04-08-2019 9:48am

iptba wrote: »

I wasn't sure where to post this.

https://twitter.com/NiallMacCathail/status/1152616567714328577

This is of course only one individual who holds a lowly position.

But the suggestion that middle-class white males will never have to worry about a problem in their lives is hard to accept as true. But one could easily see that such attitudes could lead to problematic attitudes to men.

Who is he and what did he say? Twitter account is locked now.

iptba · 04-08-2019 11:15am

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Who is he and what did he say? Twitter account is locked now.

He had a screenshot of a post by the (female) head of Sinn Fein NUI Galway. She had a photo of a Fine Gael meeting. Nearly all those in the photo were male. She said something which included “middle class white males who will never have to worry about anything in their lives”.

AndrewJRenko · 04-08-2019 11:55am

iptba wrote: »

He had a screenshot of a post by the (female) head of Sinn Fein NUI Galway. She had a photo of a Fine Gael meeting. Nearly all those in the photo were male. She said something which included “middle class white males who will never have to worry about anything in their lives”.

And who is he?

iptba · 04-08-2019 12:01pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

And who is he?

I can’t remember. I didn’t follow him myself; can’t recall how I came across it. He did seem to annoy a lot of people. But there didn’t seem to be any doubt that the Sinn Fein person’s tweet was authentic which is the main issue. It was a public tweet by her rather than some private message.

iptba · 05-09-2019 11:13pm

Sinn Féin Health spokesperson Louise O’Reilly TD has today published her party’s policy document “Young Men’s Health Matters”.

https://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/54804

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 06-11-2019 5:11pm

...Ghost... wrote: »

Agreed on all points.

Though I would add that there is a 99% survival rate with breast cancer detected in the early stages. No such detection exists for men, as they don't have the same access to screening and the awareness levels are tiny in comparison. I was just making a general point without going into too much detail. I'm not sure the other poster was picking me up on the correct points.

I know this is an oldish post but I’d just like to correct something here. There is a 99% five year survival rate for early stage breast cancer. In reality, between 20-30% of early stage breast cancer will die of the disease. Five year survival isn’t absolute survival. To look at it another way, in Ireland, ~ 25% of women die from breast cancer but only 5% of women diagnosed with breast cancer were metastatic at diagnosis. That shows that the 99% survival rate quoted can’t be true because the rest of the 25% who die logically has to made up of women who were originally early stage. This is mirrored in other Western countries. The data gathering on women (and men’s) whose breast cancer returns is, shall we say, patchy at best. I know people (men and women) whose BC recurred metastatic after five years who are listed as the original stage they were diagnosed at.

It’s all a big obfuscated clusterfuck. Basically, if they were more honest about the actual death rate and recurrence risks, all those awareness events wouldn’t raise so much money (of which eff all goes to research). Follow the money. Ditto with highlighting to men that the symptoms of breast cancer are pretty much the same for them as for women. Can’t be highlighting that stuff to men, it’ll ruin the pretty pink marketing. And the death rate for male breast cancer in Ireland is 50%, indicating that men are being diagnosed with it far too late on average. I sometimes share a ward with a guy suffering from breast cancer and I’m pretty sure it’s metastatic based on one of the drugs he takes.

iptba · 15-01-2020 3:43am

I see that Ivana Bacik is the Labour Party's director of elections
https://twitter.com/LabourDunL/status/1217134920306450434
along with being the Leader of the Labour Party in the Seanad
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivana_Bacik

iptba · 23-01-2020 2:09am

I didn't watch the debate tonight but I overheard Vardakar say Micheal Martin's comments that Sinn Fein was an unusual party* and that there was a puppetmaster/puppet masters controlling Mary Lou McDonald and Michelle O'Neill, or something about puppet masters controlling them, were "misogynistic". If he had said sexist I could just about accept that, but misogynistic means "hatred of women" which I don't think is justified and I dislike that word been thrown around, and distrust people who do it. To be honest, I'm not sure it's sexist is either as I think the same people would make the same points if male leaders who weren't directly associated with paramilitaries in the past were leaders also at this time.

*that isn't close to the exact wording, but it isn't my main point

iptba · 23-01-2020 9:36pm

https://twitter.com/NWCI/status/1220387794998243328
https://twitter.com/NWCI/status/1219896545392439296
https://www.nwci.ie/general-election-2020/voters
https://www.nwci.ie/general-election-2020/manifesto

iptba · 08-02-2020 4:57pm

https://www.facebook.com/PeopleBeforeProfitGalway/posts/3010526735635177

People Before Profit Galway
2 hrs ·
The members of People Before Profit Galway are shocked and outraged to learn of the actions of Joe Loughnane.

We send our solidarity and support to the young woman involved.

It has come to light this morning that he has been physically aggressive with, and damaged the property of, a young woman.

There is absolutely no place in a proudly socialist feminist party like People Before Profit for people who behave like he has. Disciplinary action has been initiated by party HQ and he is suspended from the party.

He does not represent us.

We urge voters in Galway West to vote no. 1 Conor Burke of Solidarity-People Before Profit.

iptba · 10-02-2020 3:49am

I've come across quite a number of tweets about female TDs losing their seats:
https://twitter.com/fergalrte/status/1226640757764784128
https://twitter.com/colettebrowne/status/1226682755590873088
https://twitter.com/ismaithanfear/status/1226679262893215744
https://twitter.com/mrdavidflane/status/1226645985947979776
https://twitter.com/ProfPatOConnor/status/1226642470211072001
https://twitter.com/SkepticalHippo_/status/1226640147799838720

I haven't seen anything similar about male TDs even though more males may lose their seats (not perfect reference: https://www.rte.ie/news/election-2020/2020/0209/1114127-election-count/ ).

I saw some people say that it looks like there will be slightly more female TDs than in the last batch

tritium · 10-02-2020 10:10am

Well, for anyone looking for a silver lining to the election it’s that a certain clowns in that list won’t be in the Dail anymore

Marcos · 10-02-2020 1:03pm

iptba wrote: »

I've come across quite a number of tweets about female TDs losing their seats:
https://twitter.com/fergalrte/status/1226640757764784128
https://twitter.com/colettebrowne/status/1226682755590873088
https://twitter.com/ismaithanfear/status/1226679262893215744
https://twitter.com/mrdavidflane/status/1226645985947979776
https://twitter.com/ProfPatOConnor/status/1226642470211072001
https://twitter.com/SkepticalHippo_/status/1226640147799838720

I haven't seen anything similar about male TDs even though more males may lose their seats (not perfect reference: https://www.rte.ie/news/election-2020/2020/0209/1114127-election-count/ ).

I saw some people say that it looks like there will be slightly more female TDs than in the last batch

Well our electoral system may not be perfect, but thank God it's not a list system, where each party gets to nominate a number of candidates based on the party's percentage of the vote. Because if it was, you can be sure the above would elbow everyone else out to make sure they got in.

I wonder how long it'll be before they start to agitate for a fixed percentage of female only seats? Given Mary Mitchell O'Connor's track record with female only professorships I wouldn't put it past them.

iptba · 01-04-2020 9:47pm

https://twitter.com/ivanabacik/status/1245431423940661248

iptba · 02-04-2020 4:33pm

Poor showing for women in Seanad elections as Varadkar’s plea ignored
Taoiseach may nominate women to meet 40% gender quota for next Dáil election

Fine Gael voters ignored a Seanad election appeal by the Taoiseach to vote for female candidates, with no party women elected to three of the five vocational panels counted to date.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/poor-showing-for-women-in-seanad-elections-as-varadkar-s-plea-ignored-1.4218343

iptba · 03-04-2020 6:00pm

It is understood Fine Gael leader Leo Varadkar has told his parliamentary party that any government coalition deal would seek to ensure the 11 taoiseach nominations for the Seanad would be mostly if not all women.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/0403/1128218-seanad-election/

CageWager · 04-04-2020 8:21am

We are inching closer and closer to the day where both houses will have 50% “female only seats”. Mark my words.

boombang · 04-04-2020 8:38am

This guy came to my attention recently as a total tool.

https://twitter.com/MTaylorClare/status/1246149828393996295?s=19

Silentcorner · 04-04-2020 8:45am

He/Him....right...we all know what we are dealing with then.

Take a look at how the UK Labour Party and the Lib Dems have fared with enforced gender quotas....those parties have done enormous damage to themselves.

Feminism is starting to destroy whatever it touches, hopefully it will destroy the Seanad.

07-04-2020 4:07am

TBH, I'm kinda glad that this is happening. There is nothing more in the public eye than politics. So, these quotas will also be under the public eye, and we might see people acknowledging the inherent sexism that is being promoted these days.
Once that starts, then a push to connect that sexism with what we see in quota's or other initiatives boosting women in an already equal society... (considering that they're doing better than males in many aspects already, and have been for years)

Hopefully, we can put all this BS behind us, and return to encouraging actual equality.

iptba · 22-06-2020 5:56pm

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/its-time-for-women-to-get-half-of-all-seats-in-the-next-cabinet-39302462.html

June 21 2020 02:30 AM

Now that the programme for government has been agreed, pending all the usual ifs and buts, the real business begins - deciding who should get all those plum jobs in cabinet. The big question is: how many of them should go to women?

The maths is straightforward enough. There were 36 women elected to the 33rd Dail at February's election (only one more than in 2016), compared to 124 men.

Of those fortunate few women, 23 will be sitting on the opposition benches, compared to 49 men, a significantly higher representation than in the Dail as a whole - though still far from equal.

I can't see the full article as it is pay walled. It doesn't seem like a good idea that half the Cabinet should be picked from such a small pool of people (13 women).

AndrewJRenko · 25-06-2020 9:58pm

Silentcorner wrote: »

He/Him....right...we all know what we are dealing with then.

Take a look at how the UK Labour Party and the Lib Dems have fared with enforced gender quotas....those parties have done enormous damage to themselves.

Feminism is starting to destroy whatever it touches, hopefully it will destroy the Seanad.

Are you referring to the Labour All Women Shortlists brought in around 1993? I'm not sure that 'enormous damage' would cover all of Labour's developments since then.

iptba · 28-06-2020 3:25pm

Nominated members of Seanad Éireann
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominated_members_of_Seanad_%C3%89ireann

9 of the 11 individuals nominated by the Taoiseach are female, including 3 out of the 4 Fianna Fáil nominations and all 4 of the Fine Gael nominations

iptba · 28-06-2020 3:30pm

The National Women's Council of Ireland says it is really disappointed that just four of the 15 cabinet ministers appointed are women.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/womens-council-really-disappointing-that-just-four-of-15-ministers-appointed-are-women-1007917.html

"Four women do not even meet the current quota of 30% where we can begin to address gender balance, let alone the desired 50/50 split that has been achieved in many other countries across the world.

4/15 is 26.7% higher than the 22.5% for the Dail as a whole, and I think higher than the percentage of females in the 3 governing parties. As it is, one woman was chosen after just having been elected to the Dail. Also 2 out the 3 other politicians who will be at the Cabinet are female.

"NWCI is calling on the new Government to pass legislation for a gender quota for the local elections in 2023 and to increase support for initiatives that support women to run for political office at all levels.’’

CageWager · 28-06-2020 5:17pm

If it were up to me I‘d have mandatory 50/50 gender split in terms of candidates in the election, and then let the chips fall where they may. If women choose not to vote for other women then so be it - they had their chance. At that stage nobody could come back after the fact and whinge about not enough women getting elected.

iptba · 28-06-2020 6:29pm

There's going to be a 40% quota soon, which is pretty close to 50-50. The 30% quota was only for the first 7 years.

iptba · 02-07-2020 11:08pm

The Irish Times view on Government jobs: open dissent in Fianna Fáil
More significant than geographical imbalances is scarcity of women in new administration

[..]

What is more striking – and worrying – is the failure to have a greater gender balance at both senior and junior levels. Just four of the 15 Cabinet ministers are women and only five of the 20 junior ministers. This is not nearly good enough and reflects badly on all three coalition parties.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/editorial/the-irish-times-view-on-government-jobs-open-dissent-in-fianna-f%C3%A1il-1.4294885

I don't have easy access to the figures, but don't get the impression the percentages of cabinet ministers and junior ministers who were women were lower than the overall percentages of women who were elected in these parties. So there doesn't seem to have been any discrimination against women, from what I see. So a bit disappointing that the Irish Times would highlight this.

Rank Irish political parties on their willingness to discriminate against men/similar

Comments