The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

batman1 · 12-08-2019 11:49pm

My friend's son plays football in Dublin. He's 14. He has, if he wants, access to strength and conditioning coaching, dietician, sports psychology etc.

He is originally from Donegal. His nephew is 13 and plays in Donegal. He gets a free bus to training and matches. That's it.

12-08-2019 11:50pm

It's not good for football to see such dominance, be that by Dublin or Kerry or whatever. In fact, it's awfully boring, and most of us can acknowledge that the best games have been with genuinely competitive rivals- e.g. Meath v. Dublin in the late 80s/early 90s. Likewise with Kilkenny in hurling - absolutely awful and a sharp contrast to the superb hurling competition of the late 1990s. Both sports were reborn because of that rivalry.

My aim would be to divide Dublin up in a way which maximises the rivalry, and avoids the current David v. Goliath stuff.

If Dublin were to be divided into 4 or 5 county teams, what would be the best divisions? Fingal has a very distinctive and ancient history to support a separate team, but how good would it be? Geographically it looks massive in the map below, so could it be two 'county' teams?

Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown would be unwieldy as a county name, but what sort of boundaries could be made in that area?

jr86 · 12-08-2019 11:51pm

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Well you have the best u20 attacker in the country to add in next year. That Archer lad is a machine. Dublin only need to add 2-3 players to the panel each year and before long another golden Dublin crop will arrive with 5 or 6 players. The numbers playing in the capital is growing, the support they get superior and don't forget you've got the best volunteers in the country!

I know you're still hurt from the days when you got beaten by counties a tenth of your size but those days won't be back. You'll be lucky to lose 1 knock out championship match in the next 10 years. You've only lost 1 in the last 6 and 2 in the last 8. Ridiculous. Young Dublin fans don't know the meaning of pain as a fan.

Don't write off a few more of that under 20 team peaking later on either

In the 2013 final all of McCaffrey, KK and Mannion were 20. McCaffrey barely touched the ball, KK was game but mainly ineffective, while Mannion came off injured early but his sole contribution till then was balooning a ball into the corner of the hill.

As the saying goes - "look at them now"!!

ToBeFrank123 · 12-08-2019 11:51pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

If it is rotten please explain the corruption that has led it to occur and persist.
Or it isnt rotten.

The GAA took a decision to promote the sports - both codes - in the most competitive environment for sports in the country. Or risk losing out on generations of kids to soccer or rugby.

There are lots of discrepancies in funding between counties and in spinsorship.
Looking at the twitter table it has not affected results on the field significantly. Or we would not expect to see Tyrone in a semi final given they got same funding as Leitrim and half as much as Meath.

There was nothing rotten about it.
If you have information to the contrary please share it.

The whole transparancy around how or why Dublin is funded is clear as mud.

For example we have it from none other than Bertie himself that he started diverting funds from the dept of finance into Dublin gaa in the early 90s when he was minister.

Was this ethical? He used the argument Dublin were weak at the time. But Dublin won 4 In a row in Leinster in the early 90s.

Every urban area in Ireland has issues with participation.

So yes there is something definitely rotten.

gormdubhgorm · 12-08-2019 11:53pm

For anyone who REALLY wants to know why Dublin are dominant at the moment

Read this

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2019/0402/1040302-fenton-mccaffrey-kilkenny/

An exceptional group of players in Dublin North and South in 2005 under 12

It all comes down to players who happen to be an exceptional generation - sometimes this just happens.
It happened with Ajax in the 70's. 95, and this year.
Now it has happened Dublin.

If finances really made that much difference how come the Dublin hurlers have not won Liam McCarthy?
Who won the minor and u20s in the football this year?
How much money does JP put into Limerick?
Look at the facilities of club Tyrone's centre of excellence world class.

I think people who call Dublin's success 'doping' are not only ignorant of true facts - but insulting to the best team many of us will ever see in our lifetimes.
Frankly I think people who use the term 'Dublin doping' should hang thier heads in shame.

BonnieSituation · 12-08-2019 11:55pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not good for football to see such dominance, be that by Dublin or Kerry or whatever. In fact, it's awfully boring, and most of us can acknowledge that the best games have been with genuinely competitive rivals- e.g. Meath v. Dublin in the late 80s/early 90s. Likewise with Kilkenny in hurling - absolutely awful and a sharp contrast to the superb hurling competition of the late 1990s. Both sports were reborn because of that rivalry.

My aim would be to divide Dublin up in a way which maximises the rivalry, and avoids the current David v. Goliath stuff.

If Dublin were to be divided into 4 or 5 county teams, what would be the best divisions? Fingal has a very distinctive and ancient history to support a separate team, but how good would it be? Geographically it looks massive in the map below, so could it be two 'county' teams?

Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown would be unwieldy as a county name, but what sort of boundaries could be made in that area?

And the second you do that you lose EVERY Dublin supporter.

Sure while you're splitting us, amalgamate all the Ulster counties for hurling and Sligo and Leitrim should be one team as well. Not to mention Longford and Westmeath. Why not.

Why don't we investigate why the likes of Louth, Wicklow, Kildare etc haven't done much in nearly a century or why Cork and Galway are disgracefully underachieving given their resources?

They're the true scandals of the GAA.

ToBeFrank123 · 12-08-2019 11:59pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

And the second you do that you lose EVERY Dublin supporter.

Sure while you're splitting us, amalgamate all the Ulster counties for hurling and Sligo and Leitrim should be one team as well. Not to mention Longford and Westmeath. Why not.

Why don't we investigate why the likes of Louth, Wicklow, Kildare etc haven't done much in nearly a century or why Cork and Galway are disgracefully underachieving given their resources?

They're the true scandals of the GAA.

Louth won an AI in 1957.
Dublin received 13 times more GDF than Cork despite only 2.5 times the population. There's your reason. They also received a free stadium.

ClanofLams · 13-08-2019 12:01am

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

For anyone who REALLY wants to know why Dublin are dominant at the moment

Read this

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2019/0402/1040302-fenton-mccaffrey-kilkenny/

An exceptional group of players in Dublin North and South in 2005 under 12

It all comes down to players who happen to be an exceptional generation - sometimes this just happens.
It happened with Ajax in the 70's. 95, and this year.
Now it has happened Dublin.

If finances really made that much difference how come the Dublin hurlers have not won Liam McCarthy?
Who won the minor and u20s in the football this year?
How much money does JP put into Limerick?
Look at the facilities of club Tyrone's centre of excellence world class.

I think people who call Dublin's success 'doping' are not only ignorant of true facts - but insulting to the best team many of us will ever see in our lifetimes.
Frankly I think people who use the term 'Dublin doping' should hang thier heads in shame.

I wouldn’t call it doping but there is no denying the transformative impact massive funding has had. If you read back the thread you will find the answers to your questions.

Dublin haven’t yet won an All Ireland hurling title because they started from a base where they were losing to Westmeath. They have won their first Leinster title in fifty years and their first national hurling league title ever. A Dublin club has won back to back all
Irelands when Dublin clubs had previously won one Leinster club title in their history.

The increase in juvenile success has also been documented earlier in the thread.

gormdubhgorm · 13-08-2019 12:02am

Gachla wrote: »

It's not just the Dublin senior footballers though is it? If it was just them it could be explained away, it's women's football, men's hurling, club football and hurling, underage, basically, Dublin GAA has improved in all areas. This has happened at the same time that Dublin got a huge increase in funding. It can't be just a coincidence? I saw this table on another website, it's not very pretty but it shows the big improvements in Dublin GAA.

BonnieSituation wrote: »

And the second you do that you lose EVERY Dublin supporter.

Sure while you're splitting us, amalgamate all the Ulster counties for hurling and Sligo and Leitrim should be one team as well. Not to mention Longford and Westmeath. Why not.

I have said before I would have no problem with Dublin splitting but it would mean that other weaker counties would have to amalgamate.
But some just want thier cake and eat it.
From my point of view what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

jr86 · 13-08-2019 12:02am

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

For anyone who REALLY wants to know why Dublin are dominant at the moment

Read this

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2019/0402/1040302-fenton-mccaffrey-kilkenny/

An exceptional group of players in Dublin North and South in 2005 under 12

Where on earth is Mannion on that team? Manager hadn't a clue

y0ssar1an22 · 13-08-2019 12:04am

blanch152 wrote: »

6 different clubs have won this century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_Senior_Hurling_Championship

In Tipperary, six different clubs have won this century:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipperary_Senior_Hurling_Championship

Thurles Sarsfields with 8 have been more dominant than Ballyboden with seven.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilkenny_Senior_Hurling_Championship

In Kilkenny it has been seven, with Ballyhale as dominant with seven as Ballyboden in Dublin.

One of the things that most annoys Dublin fans on this forum is the ignorance displayed both about the county team and the clubs within the county. Anyone with a small bit of knowledge about the club hurling scene, or who took five minutes to check wouldn't have posted the above.

If you are going to construct an argument against Dublin, at least get the facts correct, and when it comes to the money, include all the money all of the counties get, and then adjust it per capita.

adjust for the total population of dublin, or the population that can play inter county for dublin? as in disregard the mayo players that live in dublin for example

Strabanimal · 13-08-2019 12:04am

Calling them west brits continuously clearly worked.

BonnieSituation · 13-08-2019 12:08am

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Louth won an AI in 1957.
Dublin received 13 times more GDF than Cork despite only 2.5 times the population. There's your reason. They also received a free stadium.

Wow 1957! They are truly giants of the game. Nothing to worry about with a population of nearly 130,000 and bugger all to show for it.

Cork got a free stadium? I know. Disgraceful.

---

And we put all that money into what exactly? Did the bulk of it go to the Senior Football team (like say, Mayo) or did we invest it in solely elite underage structures (like say, Kerry) or did we ignore the other sports of the GAA (like say Kilkenny) or did we get our shít together and invest all around the county to ensure greater exposure for ALL children to play regardless?

I mean, if I was a neighbouring county I'd be asking for help with trying to sort ourselves out. Wouldn't you? We're clearly good at it.

Tell me this, how much money were GAlway GAA bailed out for? Or Cork?

Why is that money not important?

gormdubhgorm · 13-08-2019 12:09am

ClanofLams wrote: »

I wouldn’t call it doping but there is no denying the transformative impact massive funding has had. If you read back the thread you will find the answers to your questions.

Dublin haven’t yet won an All Ireland hurling title because they started from a base where they were losing to Westmeath. They have won their first Leinster title in fifty years and their first national hurling league title ever. A Dublin club has won back to back all
Irelands when Dublin clubs had previously won one Leinster club title in their history.

The increase in juvenile success has also been documented earlier in the thread.

Hang on now a minute Dublin had a great collection of hurlers only six years ago when Dalo was in charge - a lensiter tile a league and an AI semi final.
Once that team broke up the core was not replaced.

How can you say finances cause Dublin's success in football then conveniently say it because the hurlers have a low base!?
They arguably should have beaten Cork in 2013 to get to the AI final. (Dwyer got sent off)
By your logic all the money rolling in should have propelled them to the next level?
Did that Cork fella spend it wrong when he was managing the Dublin hurlers after Dalo?

Cuala is an an anomaly of a hurling club in Dublin - Dalkey - they are an oasis surrounded by GAA wasteland.
Dalkey population of just over 8k

Mick Holden was an exception to the rule in the 70's as well.

ToBeFrank123 · 13-08-2019 12:13am

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

adjust for the total population of dublin, or the population that can play inter county for dublin? as in disregard the mayo players that live in dublin for example

Really good point.

BonnieSituation · 13-08-2019 12:14am

Strabanimal wrote: »

Calling them west brits continuously clearly worked.

WE prefer Jackeens

ToBeFrank123 · 13-08-2019 12:15am

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Wow 1957! They are truly giants of the game. Nothing to worry about with a population of nearly 130,000 and bugger all to show for it.

Cork got a free stadium? I know. Disgraceful.

---

And we put all that money into what exactly? Did the bulk of it go to the Senior Football team (like say, Mayo) or did we incest it in soley elite underage structures (like say, Kerry) or did we ignore the other sports of the GAA (like say Kilkenny) or did we get our shít together and invest all around the county to ensure greater exposure for ALL children to play regardless?

I mean, if I was a neighbouring county I'd be asking for help with trying to sort ourselves out. Wouldn't you? We're clearly good at it.

Tell me this, how much money were GAlway GAA bailed out for? Or Cork?

Why is that money not important?

Dublin received a free stadium not Cork. Cork will have huge debts like every other county. Dublin received 13 times the funding of Cork. A lot of money to play with.

BonnieSituation · 13-08-2019 12:15am

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Dublin received a free stadium not Cork. Cork will have huge debts like every other county.

Cork weren't bailed out in anyway shape or form? No?

Care to indulge me in anything else I brought up?

Kop On · 13-08-2019 12:18am

ClanofLams wrote: »

Is there any justification for Dublin to receive almost thirteen times what Cork received from ‘07 to ‘18? When the population difference is two and a half times?.

Maybe because Croke Park has been busy bailing the Cork County Board out of a €100 Million bog hole that is the new Pairc Ui Chaoimh.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/pairc-ui-chaoimh-revamp-cost-spirals-over-100m-892010.html

Imagine the mickey fits if Dublin were to try build the equivalent (for 3 or 4 times the cost given location) and got bailed out by Croke Park for it.

gormdubhgorm · 13-08-2019 12:18am

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Dublin received a free stadium not Cork. Cork will have huge debts like every other county.

And Dublin's plans for a 25k stadium in the spawell was scuppered by prices in Dublin

BonnieSituation · 13-08-2019 12:19am

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

And Dublin's plans for a 25k stadium in the spawell was scuppered by prices in Dublin

And State-owned NAMA.

blanch152 · 13-08-2019 12:20am

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I have said before I would have no problem with Dublin splitting but it would mean that other weaker counties would have to amalgamate.
But some just want thier cake and eat it.
From my point of view what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

Absolutely, there is a small minority of Kerry and Mayo people pushing the splitting agenda, because they want a clear run at an All-Ireland and don't want to have to raise their game. Amalgamating other counties to make them stronger wouldn't help them. They are afraid of a Sligo/Leitrim or a Clare/Limerick winning a provincial championship and denying them an annointed All-Ireland.

Until compulsory amalgamations are on the table, it is clear that the split Dublin agenda is being driven by jealousy and bitterness rather than a desire to make the competition competitive.

A root-and-branch reform of the county structure with every option on the table, and the only aim being to make it more competitive is the only acceptable way to address this issue.

ToBeFrank123 · 13-08-2019 12:22am

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Cork weren't bailed out in anyway shape or form? No?

Care to indulge me in anything else I brought up?

Dublin were bailed out far more. A free stadium handed to them worth at least 300 million to play home games at.
And 13 times the gdf of Cork.

What Cork received was small fry in comparison and a pittance in gdf, crumbs from the GAAs table after Dublin had been well looked after.

The thread is about Dublin by the way.

ClanofLams · 13-08-2019 12:22am

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Hang on now a minute Dublin had a great collection of hurlers only six years ago when Dalo was in charge - a lensiter tile a league and an AI semi final.
Once that team broke up the core was not replaced.

How can you say finances cause Dublin's success in football then conveniently say it because the hurlers have a low base!
They arguably should have beaten Cork in 2013 to get to the AI final.
By your logic all the money rolling in should have propelled them to the next level?
Did that Cork fella spend it wrong when he was managing the Dublin hurlers?

Cuala is an an anomaly of a hurling club in Dublin - Dalkey - they are an oasis surrounded by GAA wasteland.
Dalkey population of just over 8k

Mick Holden was an exception to the rule in the 70's as well.

I have never said finances are the sole reason for the success of Dublin football.

It’s simple, Dublin footballers were starting off a base where they were regular Leinster champions and all Ireland contenders or not far off it. Dublin hurlers were starting off a base where they were getting beaten by fifteen by Offaly and knocked out by Westmeath.

Strabanimal · 13-08-2019 12:23am

BonnieSituation wrote: »

WE prefer Jackeens

That's how we've went wrong. The dominance will soon stop now.

ToBeFrank123 · 13-08-2019 12:25am

blanch152 wrote: »

Absolutely, there is a small minority of Kerry and Mayo people pushing the splitting agenda, because they want a clear run at an All-Ireland and don't want to have to raise their game. Amalgamating other counties to make them stronger wouldn't help them. They are afraid of a Sligo/Leitrim or a Clare/Limerick winning a provincial championship and denying them an annointed All-Ireland.

Until compulsory amalgamations are on the table, it is clear that the split Dublin agenda is being driven by jealousy and bitterness rather than a desire to make the competition competitive.

A root-and-branch reform of the county structure with every option on the table, and the only aim being to make it more competitive is the only acceptable way to address this issue.

Haha. No one I know in Kerry or Mayo want Dublin split.
I for one don't want that.

I do want a serious investigation into and reallocation of Dublins gdf so everyone is on a relatively level playing field.

STB. · 13-08-2019 12:26am

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not good for football to see such dominance, be that by Dublin or Kerry or whatever. In fact, it's awfully boring, and most of us can acknowledge that the best games have been with genuinely competitive rivals- e.g. Meath v. Dublin in the late 80s/early 90s. Likewise with Kilkenny in hurling - absolutely awful and a sharp contrast to the superb hurling competition of the late 1990s. Both sports were reborn because of that rivalry.

My aim would be to divide Dublin up in a way which maximises the rivalry, and avoids the current David v. Goliath stuff.

If Dublin were to be divided into 4 or 5 county teams, what would be the best divisions? Fingal has a very distinctive and ancient history to support a separate team, but how good would it be? Geographically it looks massive in the map below, so could it be two 'county' teams?

Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown would be unwieldy as a county name, but what sort of boundaries could be made in that area?

Yeah, "your aim" wont be happening, because the results are not suiting.

The solution is for your county's team to up their standards. Not devise a handicap system.

They sure as shít were not suggesting this when Kerry won the All Ireland in 1975, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1984, 1985, 1986.

Conversely, nobody gave a shít about Dublin as long as they were not winning All Irelands between 1995 and 2011, despite having the population advantage.

There is no direct correlation between development funding and the success of the current Dublin squad. The whole idea of development funding was to get more kids playing the game and not soccer, rugby, athletics, boxing, and other sports. And to get them sticking at it.

This current Dublin team are all amateurs with day jobs (just google them). Off the top of my head 3 of them are the sons of previous Dublin players. There is nothing "doped" about them. They put a lot of effort and make a lot of personal concessions into conditioning themselves to be that good. Of course no amount of conditioning will make a winning machine unless there is talent there, but its a start.

Through proper management which had been sadly lacking for some time, the results are finally coming Dublins way.

Stop making excuses for your own County. I see that one of the main protagonists in this thread is from a County that hadn't had a footballing All Star since 2003, prior to last year. That County not being a small one either. To that person I'd say, stop looking for excuses. Look closer to home for your solutions. You wont find it by whinging about others.

There are 15 men on the pitch at any one time. Make sure your 15 are up to scratch. It avoids whinging after the event. The solution is one thing and one thing only. A period of dominance in GAA is nothing new. Start playing at a higher level. Thats what the Dubs had to do between 1995 and 2011 and in the 80s when Kerry won all around them. We didn't have mass hysteria.

BonnieSituation · 13-08-2019 12:27am

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Dublin were bailed out far more. A free stadium handed to them worth at least 300 million to play home games at.
And 13 times the gdf of Cork.

What Cork received was small fry in comparison and a pittance in gdf, crumbs from the GAAs table after Dublin had been well looked after.

The thread is about Dublin by the way.

How was the stadium "Handed to us"? We don't own it. But we do pay tax in Dublin too. so I'm sure we made some sort of contribution to the funding of it.

Also, the other CBs in Leinster and around the country voted to have us play in CP rather than Parnell on so many occasions that it's beyond belief that you're now peddling the line that we were handed a Stadium like West Ham United.

I suppose it's as good as any of the other brutal arguments you've been dragging the arsé out of for the last while.

And it's also strange that you find the financial mismanagement of PUC and the Cork CBs current indebtedness funny and a badge of honour, but sure, big bad Dublin get everything handed to them.

The difference is we have a competent CB so the returns are soooo much better.

gormdubhgorm · 13-08-2019 12:28am

blanch152 wrote: »

Absolutely, there is a small minority of Kerry and Mayo people pushing the splitting agenda, because they want a clear run at an All-Ireland and don't want to have to raise their game. Amalgamating other counties to make them stronger wouldn't help them. They are afraid of a Sligo/Leitrim or a Clare/Limerick winning a provincial championship and denying them an annointed All-Ireland.

Until compulsory amalgamations are on the table, it is clear that the split Dublin agenda is being driven by jealousy and bitterness rather than a desire to make the competition competitive.

A root-and-branch reform of the county structure with every option on the table, and the only aim being to make it more competitive is the only acceptable way to address this issue.

If there is ever amalgamations Galway - Mayo one would have would half the AI's since 96 - to now. Simple to mix Mayo Backs mostly - Galway forwards mostly

Anyway I think is insulting to this current group of Dublin players that quacks use the phrase 'doping'(robbed from a French soccer manager) without a real discussion of the facts.

When Dublin get a poor manager the sighs of relief and sniggering will start again from certain quarters.

ToBeFrank123 · 13-08-2019 12:29am

STB. wrote: »

Yeah, "your aim" wont be happening.

The solution is for your county's team to up their standards. Not devise a handicap system.

They sure as **** were not suggesting this when Kerry won the All Ireland in 1975, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1984, 1985, 1986.

Conversely, nobody gave a **** about Dublin as long as they were not winning All Irelands between 1995 and 2011, despite having the population advantage.

There is no direct correlation between development funding and the current Dublin squad. The whole idea of development funding was to get more kids playing the game and not soccer, rugby, athletics, boxing, and other sports. And to get them sticking at it.

This current Dublin team are all amateurs with day jobs (just google them). Off the top of my head 3 of them are the sons of previous Dublin players. There is nothing "doped" about them. They put a lot of effort and make a lot of personal concessions into conditioning themselves to be that good. Of course no amount of conditioning will make a winning machine unless there is talent there, but its a start.

Through proper management which had been sadly lacking for some time, the results are finally coming their way.

Stop making excuses for your own County. I see that one of the main protagonists in this thread is from a County that hadn't had an footballing All Star since 2003, prior to last year. That County not being a small one either. To that person I'd say, stop looking for excuses. Look closer to home for your solutions.

There are 15 men on the pitch at any one time. Make sure your 15 are up to scratch. It avoids whinging after the event. The solution is one thing and one thing only. Start playing at a higher level.

Ah the old 15 against 15 argument.
And the get your house in order line.

Its like Man City telling Swindon Town to get their house in order, 11 v 11 and so on.

Laughable.

You also don't seem to understand what financial doping means or the impact it has on fair competition.

The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

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The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1