Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail

Del.Monte wrote: »

Meanwhile this was the scene today at Wellington Bridge at the SE end of the Western Rail Corridor. CIE's final (?) inspection car over the Rosslare Strand/Waterford section - note the usual high standard of care and maintenance. :rolleyes:



Photo: Daithi Gazeley.

Why did this section close?
Low passenger turnover?


I get lines like Ballybrophy, where per passenger we could send them via Aer Lingus first class nearly for the same price, but what do you think of the chicken and the egg argument? (any of you)


That IE never bothers to put an attractive service in place in the first place, so it gets no patronage, so they close it. It always amazed me that even during the ash cloud thing they only belatedly adjusted the timetables to coincide with ferry arrivals, this example pulls to mind now.
I think of the shops on board ICRs that are always closed and they never use, they just have a terrible customer service ethos they just don't seem to wanna TRY.


If they are closing Rosslare itself, besides the Bray transfer proposal, which I know some of you hate, but it would lead to more frequency, they don't seem to be EVEN TRYING on this line. Half the trains are uncomfortable commuter sets totally unsuited to this journey meanwhile there are ICRs more suited to Rosslare going through the Phoenix Park Tunnel (why not swap them??). Then it's what every 3 hours? No way thats going to compete with the bus.


I also have to wonder if instead of opening the old line, which in the west seems to be a shambles, it might be better to build a totally new high speed train system on new land to connect the major cities, because even if they did WRC, upgrade Cork, upgrade Belfast the journey times are just not impressive at all, and if the fate of the planet is at stake here with PT solutions should we not be thinking big? Relying on 19th century infrastructure where there are huge speed restrictions just seems like a waste of money.
The single tracking of so much of the network (which horrified me when I looked at a map recently, to see how MUCH of the IE network is single track) also just SCREAMS "don't bother!!!".

DaCor wrote: »

Given that any train is more limited in journey times, frequency, schedule flexibility etc, I'm not sure you should be banging that drum.

Good examples of what you're talking about - if I want to go to Knock, Shannon or Dublin Airports, I can get buses (64, X51, X20/Citylink/GoBus) that will take me right to the front door. I'd be a while waiting for a train.

Similarly, the X51 brings students (heavy users of public transport) directly to and from GMIT, LIT and Limerick University - again demonstrating the flexibility that makes them so useful and popular, and that's before we even talk about scheduling and costs.

westtip wrote: »

I think the penny has well and truly dropped. It's called electric cars.

I won't be getting an overpriced glorified milk float anytime soon.

whisky_galore wrote: »

I won't be getting an overpriced glorified milk float anytime soon.

Of the top ten cars sold in Norway this year, nine are electric and the other one is a plug-in-hybrid.

Obviously the Norwegians are really stupid to be driving "glorified milk floats". :rolleyes:

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

But it’s all about knocking the train as a form of transport. Not about bicycles, not really. I would remain very surprised if any bus outside the small hours would do city centre to city centre in one hour and twenty minutes, considering the almighty mess Galway’s traffic is in. Raising capacity on the railway would have a fraction of the land take for a motorway. Constructing the city bypass will just compound that even further. I’ll have a European model over an American model for the West every time.

I can't speak for the others, bit I've no agenda to talk down the train option. I love rail transport. I have to go to Belfast a lot and you'd have to pay ME to get a bus (though in July/August I'll have to...why? to update old rail lines!). I find the train more comfy, and on the Dub-Belfast line it's faster than the bus by nearly an hour.

But there are clearly routes (often stupid single track routes) where the reverse is true AND when you combine that with old infrastructure and less frequency it does show there is something to think about.


I think we need proper regional balance in this country, real balance not that decentralization shi1te we had back in the day which diluted to every micky mouse town , but a strategy that builds up the big cities where growth is concentrated in Galway, Limerick and Cork as much as possible instead of ever expanding Dublin.


I think rail can play a key role in that, it always made sense to me we should do WRC, as a concept. I found it crazy that the network in the North is not connected to the west side of the island, Sligo and Derry for example, which are so close but no rail line.


But the more I look into it...it just looks like a waste of money. Maybe it could be done with a very good regional balance policy that encouraged DENSITY in those areas on the west coast but here is where that runs slam into a brick wall as a concept...population.



Problem #1: In order for rail to be lets say half as active on the WRC as it is on the East, or even 1/3, those cities would need more people (hence a regional balance policy) and more density. But I see it in my political circles and policy work all the time, all these culchies want one off housing! They won't live in tall apartment buildings in the cities they all want a big garden in the exurbs with 2 cars and I don't mean farmers here. That kinda lifestyle is totally incompatible with a population relying on rail transport.


Problem #2: We of course have plenty of south dublin suburbanites and exurbanites who wanna live in houses separated from the city, and we get them to use the DART and Luas, even in outlying areas, so why can't we do this on the WRC? Well heres the thing, why do we get the D4 yuppies to use PT? Apart from saving petrol? It's because it's FAST. You have a Luas coming every 4-7 minutes at rush hour SPEEDING you to work and back, so fast you don't mind standing (unless it's cross city Luas which a 90 year old woman could out-sprint breathing from her oxygen tank...). Now with all the single track and speed restrictions and whatnot...you will never get a clockface timetable like the Luas or even the DART or Commuter network. You won't even get something like the old dart timetable of every 15 min, hell the SUNDAY timetable of every half our!

I know WRC is more an intercity thing than a commuter thing but this would be part of it and we'eve seen with the bus issue that it's not competative on intercity either with the bus, and now we see with commuter...so what's left?


Problem #3: Forgive my ignorance growing up on the south Dub coast but my mouth actually opened looking at a vid of an inspection train doing a run on the WRC....there was f---g NOTHING ANYWHERE AROUND FOR MILES AND MILES sometimes one off house or SHACK the place looked DESERTED there was f---g nobody there, and were talking like along the whole line!!



If we built the whole thing is anyone gonna use it??


IMO a WRC with single tracking is IMMEDIATELY a waste of time, right away if you single track any large portion of it you may as well take the pile of euros and light them on fire. Unless it was double tracked, with a proper regional planning policy done in phases it won't work.


Look Im with you in concept, I love rail, and as the PR-nightmare "oh no those douchebags are on our side??" Extinction Rebellion heads never stop reminding us, we have a climate emergency and we need a proper radical PT strategy, but without proper regional planning AND an attitude shift in Irish culture about how we wanna live (stop being afraid of apts and cities and let the garden thing go) it's useless. Even then old style tracks...we'd nearly be better using a new system with new type of tracks new routes and new trains than this old skool crap.

serfboard wrote: »

Of the top ten cars sold in Norway this year, nine are electric and the other one is a plug-in-hybrid.

Obviously the Norwegians are really stupid to be driving "glorified milk floats". :rolleyes:

Unaffordable for me and many others here. Can't afford a brand new car of any kind, and why would I want to buy a second hand electric with a half clapped out battery, moreso out in the sticks? Disingenuous bringing up Norwegians who can crap money in comparison, enough of that however back OT.

We are talking about a WRC - this is pointless until something is done with the athenry to galway track eg dual track.

The train drives right by Doughiska (very near parkmore - run a bus from the "new" stop to parkmore) and Renmore with no potential to stop. The Oranmore train stop is not in Oranmore

There is no reason not to do this first?

CatInABox wrote: »

Personally speaking, there's a lot of tracks in Ireland that I think should be dual tracked before we take a look at projects like WRC. Dual tracking existing lines would provide a much bigger boost to the regions than WRC will over the next few decades, and would actually improve the business case for WRC by the time it's all said and done.

I personally dont understand why Galway doesn't have a GART (galway DART) -
on the existing train line from Ballinasloe and Gort to Galway. The line is there most of the stations are built. You would think if there was a regular service eg every 15 minutes between 7 and 9 every 30 min from 9 - 5 every 15 from 5-7 and every 30 until 9 that it could be a success

New stops at doughiska, renmore... as well as double track would be essential. You would also imagine that this would not be the most expensive project we could undertake?

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Morning Ireland doing a quick piece on this now.

Speaking to each side, railway vs greenway campaigns and local TDs. Iarnroid eireann are carrying out a review.

Just wondering what the general consensus was on who was making the better argument?