Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

Catholic Church, Mass Attendance

12467…11

Comments

  • #92
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,349 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    sabat wrote: »
    I'm a random poster on a message board, not a state or media employee. That people are attacking me for raising the issues of children in Ireland today being traded for cash amongst certain ethnicities and being subjected to bizarre religious practices (exorcisms, speaking in tongues etc) in others, proves my point.

    I believe you've argued against me here before about the new establishment cult of medical experiments being performed on children in the name of transsexualism? Before decrying Irish people in the past as brainwashed zealots maybe you need to look in the mirror...

    I've no idea what point you are making about state or media employees, so might want to clarify that.

    No one is prevented from raising questions about child welfare. If you have any concerns about the welfare of any child, you should report it to your local Tusla office.

    If you do want to consider bizarre religious practices, maybe you should start with the practice of dressing seven year old girls up as brides for a cannibalistic ritual relating to someone who died about 2,000 years ago.


  • #93
    forgottenhills
    Registered Users Posts: 441 ✭✭forgottenhills


    py2006 wrote: »
    With respect, in the 1970s you didn't dare speak of such things.

    You are right to a point but as a student in a boarding school in the late 70's the boys there would definitely have talked to each other about priests abusing students if there was even a suggestion that is was happening. We often talked to each other about the quirks some of the priests had such as one or two who drank heavily and a couple of others who were fairly camp. I has also been an altar boy in a different parish where there nothing untoward happened either.

    Now there was definitely physical punishment going on in school at that time which was abusive in its own right. I got plenty of whacks myself in class but what I felt was even worse were some students being openly ridiculed or ignored completely by teachers if they couldn't keep up.

    So I suppose my point is that although sadly there was sexual abuse, it wasn't everywhere in the Catholic Church and in my experience a large part of the population was completely unaware of anything going on at that time (70's - 80's), despite what some posters are saying.


  • #94
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,921 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Marhay70 wrote: »
    Wouldn't disagree with any of that but they also have the slogan of "come in here and listen to us if you want to live forever" which is far and above anything the likes of Google have to offer and stems from their roots in Christianity. This is why they still have a significant number of people attending Mass regularly, it's the fear factor, more powerful than any other.

    The Catholics church is just a another corporate influence as far as I'm concerned.

    Google slogan is "don't be evil". I don't expect google to live by its slogan any more than I expect the Catholics to live by their slogans or fulfill any grandiose promises


  • #95
    maestroamado
    Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    jaxxx wrote: »
    "He who keeps the keys to heaven rules the world" :rolleyes:

    Deliberate use of male pronoun was deliberate too, since the good old Roman Catholic Church doesn't put women in equal standing to men. Not so? Then how come they don't allow women to be priests?

    I have no problem with religion. I do have a problem with corrupt organisations. And, well.. .. .. you don't get any more corrupt than this :cool:


    I cannot understand why women think they are unequal?
    I do not think its anything to do with anyone only themselves.
    If that's their feeling people will fallow their views....


  • #96
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,122 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    maestroamado wrote: »
    I cannot understand why women think they are unequal?
    I do not think its anything to do with anyone only themselves.
    If that's their feeling people will fallow their views....

    perhaps you should read a bit of history.


  • Advertisement
  • #97
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,729 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Marhay70 wrote: »
    Biggest problem with the RC Church is that somewhere in their murky past they have forgotten that fundamentally, they are supposed to be Christians.

    I'm pretty sure Jesus wanted a huge corporate HQ, art museum and tourist attraction to be built. Yeah, he'd have loved that.


  • #98
    maestroamado
    Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    perhaps you should read a bit of history.


    I have no idea what that comment is supposed to mean....


  • #99
    Marhay70
    Registered Users Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Marhay70


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure Jesus wanted a huge corporate HQ, art museum and tourist attraction to be built. Yeah, he'd have loved that.

    Yep. Jesus made a big deal of kicking all the moneylenders and traders out of the Temple. However Judaism always made a point of building the biggest and best shrines to God, filled with all sorts of treasures, indeed they were often supposedly encouraged to do so by the Deity himself, so a little bit of ambiguity there which I'm in no doubt the RCC will refer to when defending the Vatican and other huge edifices.


  • #100
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,122 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    maestroamado wrote: »
    I have no idea what that comment is supposed to mean....

    it was my polite way of saying your post was one of the most ignorant i have seen on this site in the 17 years i have had an account


  • #101
    maestroamado
    Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    it was my polite way of saying your post was one of the most ignorant i have seen on this site in the 17 years i have had an account


    Your language tells me all i need know about you...


  • Advertisement
  • #102
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,122 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    maestroamado wrote: »
    Your language tells me all i need know about you...

    english?


  • #103
    maestroamado
    Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    english?


    I do not want to talk to people like you goodbye...


  • #104
    carq
    Registered Users Posts: 861 ✭✭✭carq


    I dont know how many people have visited the vatican but the sheer number of priceless art works and sculptures they have are incredible.
    They have more than they know what to do with and these are only the fraction they put on public display.

    The fact they are still shaking down pensioners for their pension money every week with their various contribution envelopes is mind boggling given the wealth of the organisation, their land holdings and how few priests there actually are now.

    Also the practise of publishing how much each person gives weekly to guilt people into giving more money is evil.


  • #105
    touts
    Registered Users Posts: 6,433 ✭✭✭touts


    12 months of no more than 10 at a wedding or funeral or baptism and no first communions or confirmations at all and the church will be finished. People only use it for those events because it is socially expected. Once that expectation is broken it will never come back.


  • #106
    Marhay70
    Registered Users Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Marhay70


    carq wrote: »
    I dont know how many people have visited the vatican but the sheer number of priceless art works and sculptures they have are incredible.
    They have more than they know what to do with and these are only the fraction they put on public display.

    The fact they are still shaking down pensioners for their pension money every week with their various contribution envelopes is mind boggling given the wealth of the organisation, their land holdings and how few priests there actually are now.

    Also the practise of publishing how much each person gives weekly to guilt people into giving more money is evil.


    Far be it from me to be defending the RCC but the same is true of most religions. It stems from a time where people thought that Gods lived in certain places and so brought them all their most precious possessions in an effort to get a favourable response whether it be a good harvest or a victory in battle etc. etc. In fact Christianity only became the main religion in the Western world because the Emperor Constantine thought that the Christian God helped him in a critical battle.


  • #107
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    carq wrote: »
    I dont know how many people have visited the vatican but the sheer number of priceless art works and sculptures they have are incredible.
    They have more than they know what to do with and these are only the fraction they put on public display.

    The fact they are still shaking down pensioners for their pension money every week with their various contribution envelopes is mind boggling given the wealth of the organisation, their land holdings and how few priests there actually are now.

    Also the practise of publishing how much each person gives weekly to guilt people into giving more money is evil.

    I don’t think you understand at all how the church works based on your post. The church in Ireland has to be self sufficient and gets little or no money from the Vatican, why would it?

    Also I have no idea where you get the idea that the church publishes what each person gives, that is total fiction. Some churches give the full amount collected in the previous weeks collection that’s it.
    touts wrote: »
    12 months of no more than 10 at a wedding or funeral or baptism and no first communions or confirmations at all and the church will be finished. People only use it for those events because it is socially expected. Once that expectation is broken it will never come back.

    Rubbish.


  • #108
    maestroamado
    Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    touts wrote: »
    12 months of no more than 10 at a wedding or funeral or baptism and no first communions or confirmations at all and the church will be finished. People only use it for those events because it is socially expected. Once that expectation is broken it will never come back.


    Your point about the big day is correct, i do not really blame the church as that's us as a people and has become.
    To me the church should be more modest, the last local PP where i live changed his car every two years which is fine, it was merc or high end bmw.
    I do not think the church will die but the big weddings and funerals will be trimmed i think.


  • #109
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,921 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    carq wrote: »
    I dont know how many people have visited the vatican but the sheer number of priceless art works and sculptures they have are incredible.
    They have more than they know what to do with and these are only the fraction they put on public display.

    The fact they are still shaking down pensioners for their pension money every week with their various contribution envelopes is mind boggling given the wealth of the organisation, their land holdings and how few priests there actually are now.

    Also the practise of publishing how much each person gives weekly to guilt people into giving more money is evil.

    Why would it be surprising that they continue to charge their members? Think about it from the perspective of: what are their goals?

    It appears one of their goals is to accumulate ever more wealth. If it wasn't one of their objectives then why do they continue to do it? Does anyone think there's a limit at which the Catholics will stop trying to accumulate more wealth?

    Of course not. It's just another corporation, accumulating wealth through selling their product. It's not complicated once you remove the advertising slogans and promises.


  • #110
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,921 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Jermaine Careful Schoolteacher wrote: »
    Rubbish.

    It's not total rubbish. A lot of people in Ireland go along with the Catholic rituals out of little more than habit and the fact that other people do it. The notion that all the people in mass or a wedding or first communion, is obviously not true.

    The more people stop going along with it, the more other people stop going along with it. The Catholics are diminishing in Ireland and something like the lockdown is exactly the kind of thing that will break the habit and accelerate the decline in participation


  • #111
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,122 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    It's not total rubbish. A lot of people in Ireland go along with the Catholic rituals out of little more than habit and the fact that other people do it. The notion that all the people in mass or a wedding or first communion, is obviously not true.

    The more people stop going along with it, the more other people stop going along with it. The Catholics are diminishing in Ireland and something like the lockdown is exactly the kind of thing that will break the habit and accelerate the decline in participation

    I cant remember the last wedding, christening, communion where the people involved actually wanted to be there. it was jut expected so they went through the motions


  • Advertisement
  • #112
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Why would it be surprising that they continue to charge their members? Think about it from the perspective of: what are their goals?

    It appears one of their goals is to accumulate ever more wealth. If it wasn't one of their objectives then why do they continue to do it? Does anyone think there's a limit at which the Catholics will stop trying to accumulate more wealth?

    Of course not. It's just another corporation, accumulating wealth through selling their product. It's not complicated once you remove the advertising slogans and promises.

    If you think any wealth is being accumulated by churches in Ireland you are very mistaken. The collection is needed to keep the doors open and the lights on, pay the priests their modest income etc. Even something small like repairs need an additional collection to cover them.

    You can see your parish churches accounts every year if you don't believe it.
    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    The Catholics are diminishing in Ireland and something like the lockdown is exactly the kind of thing that will break the habit and accelerate the decline in participation

    Or the lockdown will make people realise that they maybe need to reassess things and look at things like more prayer and returning to mass etc.
    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    I cant remember the last wedding, christening, communion where the people involved actually wanted to be there. it was jut expected so they went through the motions

    Honestly I don't know how people can come out with this sort of nonsense, you cant really believe what you just wrote? I cant remember any wedding, christening or communion where people didnt want to be there. Its the same nonsense over on the wedding thread saying no one wants to be there, my experience is the majority really look forward to these events and thoroughly enjoy them.


  • #113
    LuasSimon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭LuasSimon


    I attend mass every week with my family and it doesn’t do me any harm , I may not be listening to the gospel or sermon word for word but 40 minutes in my local church gives me a bit of mindfulness and get to say hello to some neighbours etc .

    Maybe I have been fortunate but any interactions I had with priests were good , other priests helped relations who fell on hard times abroad etc and others were great to get local hall upgraded etc .

    It seems the cool thing to be doing to demonise anyone who says a few prayers but I and plenty others are happy to go. Some people seem to be obsessed with their hatred of Catholics , do they hate protestants or Muslims or any other religion as much, if people are not interested in religion thats fine but its a free society , people can say a few prayers if they want .


  • #114
    Marhay70
    Registered Users Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Marhay70


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    I attend mass every week with my family and it doesn’t do me any harm , I may not be listening to the gospel or sermon word for word but 40 minutes in my local church gives me a bit of mindfulness and get to say hello to some neighbours etc .

    Maybe I have been fortunate but any interactions I had with priests were good , other priests helped relations who fell on hard times abroad etc and others were great to get local hall upgraded etc .

    It seems the cool thing to be doing to demonise anyone who says a few prayers but I and plenty others are happy to go. Some people seem to be obsessed with their hatred of Catholics , do they hate protestants or Muslims or any other religion as much, if people are not interested in religion thats fine but its a free society , people can say a few prayers if they want .

    If you are not listening to the Gospel or sermon then it just proves you are just doing it from force of habit. Most people will get a sense of well being from just sitting in a quiet spot and thinking about basically nothing.
    Personally, I treat all organised religion in the same way, in my mind religion just removes peoples' ability to think for themselves, it's just that the RCC has been the dominant force in Ireland since the formation of the State.
    As the saying goes "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" and people are reacting to that.


  • #115
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,122 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Jermaine Careful Schoolteacher wrote: »
    Honestly I don't know how people can come out with this sort of nonsense, you cant really believe what you just wrote? I cant remember any wedding, christening or communion where people didnt want to be there. Its the same nonsense over on the wedding thread saying no one wants to be there, my experience is the majority really look forward to these events and thoroughly enjoy them.

    so because your experience is different to mine that means my experience is nonsense?


  • #116
    pearcider
    Registered Users Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭pearcider


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    so because your experience is different to mine that means my experience is nonsense?

    Sounds like you associate with very shallow people anyway.


  • #117
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,122 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    pearcider wrote: »
    Sounds like you associate with very shallow people anyway.

    mainly non-religious people certainly though i am no sure what is so deep about supporting an organisation that aided and abetted child abuse on a massive scale.


  • #118
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,921 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Jermaine Careful Schoolteacher wrote: »
    If you think any wealth is being accumulated by churches in Ireland you are very mistaken. The collection is needed to keep the doors open and the lights on, pay the priests their modest income etc. Even something small like repairs need an additional collection to cover them.

    You can see your parish churches accounts every year if you don't believe it.



    Or the lockdown will make people realise that they maybe need to reassess things and look at things like more prayer and returning to mass etc.



    Honestly I don't know how people can come out with this sort of nonsense, you cant really believe what you just wrote? I cant remember any wedding, christening or communion where people didnt want to be there. Its the same nonsense over on the wedding thread saying no one wants to be there, my experience is the majority really look forward to these events and thoroughly enjoy them.

    Of course the local branches of the Catholic corporation, aren't flush. They need to keep squeezing the membership to repair the roof and whatever else. Meanwhile, the parent company back in the Vatican is rolling in wealth. Why would they spend their own wealth when they could get the membership to donate theirs instead?

    Yeah you might wish the lockdown will reverse the trend of the last decades and cause more people to take Catholicism seriously. I doubt it.

    And I rally must say the people at any church weddings I go to are generally young and have no time for religious nonsense. But it is a hug part of the culture. Some people thing the legal part is when the priest casts the spells. They don't realise they legal part is when the couple sign the contract and has nothing to do with the chruch service.

    My mrs was in a conversation about baptisms and mentioned we wouldn't baptise a child and her colleague looked confused and said "but who will give the child it's name if it's not christened?". It genuinely never occurred to her that the Catholics aren't needed to give a child it's name.

    Some people don't have a clue how unnecessary the church is apart from a social club.


  • #119
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,921 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    pearcider wrote: »
    Sounds like you associate with very shallow people anyway.

    Why would they be shallow because they have no interest in a religion?


  • #120
    c0w3jz6eia8h9n
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35 ✭c0w3jz6eia8h9n


    Jermaine Careful Schoolteacher wrote: »
    Or the lockdown will make people realise that they maybe need to reassess things and look at things like more prayer and returning to mass etc.

    Btw, you have still to answer my previous questions.

    For such a devote Catholic as you like to state here on boards do you adhere to all of their teachings:
    - Have you had sex before marriage?
    - Have you used contraception?
    - Do you read the bible?
    - Do you regularly go to confession and tell the priest your actual sins?


  • Advertisement
  • #121
    pearcider
    Registered Users Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭pearcider


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    mainly non-religious people certainly though i am no sure what is so deep about supporting an organisation that aided and abetted child abuse on a massive scale.

    If your friends didn’t want to be there then why go. It would be more accurate to say you associate with hypocrites then. My apologies.


Advertisement