Deal! EU reaches agreement on budget and COVID-19 stimulus fund

MrMusician18 · 22-07-2020 9:37pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

The large chance we would default on them. Which is what had our own rates in the market up at around 14% if I remember correctly.

The EU was also against QE until it changed its mind and wasn't. Their response to crises has evolved a lot over the last decade or so but there remains a sentiment that the frugal nations do not want to suffer by collectivising debt with others. Hence why this deal was so hard to achieve and why it contains a greater loan to grant ratio then many wanted.

They were afraid we'd default on the loans so they charged a higher rate that made it more likely that we'd default on the loan. Right.

No, the rates were set punitively high because of the "Moral Hazard" BS that was in vogue at the time

johnnyskeleton · 22-07-2020 11:12pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The reason they are getting support is because populists are gaining strength in Spain and Italy and the only way the EU can potentially halt their rise is to buy off the population. If either country were to leave it would fatally undermine the project and the EU is fully aware it cannot afford to lose another big member states. Like any organisation the primary objective of the EU is the preservation of itself.

How do you measure that though? I would consider France, the Netherlands, Finland and Poland to all have higher rates of hard euroskepticism than Spain, and Italy's Euroscepticism is more about leaving the Euro than the European Union. So I don't understand the argument that the covid payments were secretly paid to stave off populism, and the proof of this is that they were paid not to the countries with the bigger euroskepticism movements, but to the countries most badly hit by covid.

johnnyskeleton · 22-07-2020 11:18pm

Melanchthon wrote: »

So why are they giving more in extra aid tonon EU than Ireland is recieving in terms than Ireland is recieving from this fund then?

If Hungary or Poland was misusing funds this way the typical poster on this forum would be outraged.

Are you talking about foreign aid payments by Spain to developing nations? I think comparing that to the funds Ireland will receive from the EU is not a logical or reasonable comparison.

MrMusician18 · 22-07-2020 11:24pm

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

How do you measure that though? I would consider France, the Netherlands, Finland and Poland to all have higher rates of hard euroskepticism than Spain, and Italy's Euroscepticism is more about leaving the Euro than the European Union. So I don't understand the argument that the covid payments were secretly paid to stave off populism, and the proof of this is that they were paid not to the countries with the bigger euroskepticism movements, but to the countries most badly hit by covid.

They're is nothing secret about it. Failure to strike a deal was considered by some of what you'd consider reasonable commentators as the beginning of the end of the project.

A deal that didn't shore up support for the countries most effected by covid would certainly have ignited serious discussion of "why are we in the EU?" in these countries. And rightly so - talk of solidarity is cheap when action is needed.

I just wish we could've seen some of that kind of solidarity when we needed financial assistance. Instead we got the minimum given and the maximum extracted. IIRC Non-EU Norway gave us more favorable terms with their assistance than the EU and their threats of financial bombs, we should not forget that.

Sam Russell · 23-07-2020 2:12pm

The important issues of the deal are: the mutualisation of national debt; the giving of grants to member states; the EU borrowing money with no payback details; the EU agreeing to raise funds from its own, unspecified, resources.

All these matters are fundamental shifts within the EU. They are shifts in the EU project that are fundamental changes.

The Euro project should have had interest mutualisation built into it from the start - so that member states could not have fiscal policies that gave rise to their national debt creating a higher market interest rate for themselves.

To a certain extent that has been built in since with concept of the fiscal space, but the fact that, prior to the crash, our banks were borrowing Euros from Germany at low interest and lending it to poorly backed projects and mortgages, and then securitising those mortgages to get even more market share - a pyramid scheme.

The whole structure collapsed with disastrous results.

FutureTeashock · 23-07-2020 2:52pm

This is a great deal for Ireland. We get 5 billion euros and only have to pay back 15 billion.

Being in the EU is such an economic safe haven.

Chips Lovell · 23-07-2020 3:27pm

Mod Note

One post deleted. Please read the charter folks. In particular:

Keep your language civil, particularly when referring to other posters and people in the public eye. Using unsavoury language does not add to your argument. Examples would be referring to other people or groups as scumbags, crusties, sheeple, shills, trolls, traitors or saying that recently deceased people should “rot in hell” or similar. Repeated use of terms like that will result in a ban from the forum

.

FutureTeashock · 23-07-2020 3:41pm

Tiny Ireland is helping to bail out ITALY and SPAIN while many of its citizens are homeless and living in poverty.

Why do people keep electing these crooks?

The EU is the biggest corporate dole scrounger in the world. :mad:

Chips Lovell · 23-07-2020 4:06pm

Mod Note

@bertiebomber, don't post in this threat again.

As the charter states:

Threads (and posts) that are not based on serious and legitimate Political discussion will be deleted without warning.

Deal! EU reaches agreement on budget and COVID-19 stimulus fund

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