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04-04-2018, 17:32   #31
letsdothis
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I think some of the comments above from current doctors are slightly condescending towards GEMS / potential GEMS, whether they mean to be or not. Do you think intelligent people with existing good quality degrees just jump into medicine and the related debt, personal and family sacrifice without full consideration of what that involves, phlebotomy and all? As others have said, there are plenty of other professions where you are required to work long hours, often doing monotonous or menial tasks too - medicine doesn't have exclusivity on that. What medicine probably does have almost exclusivity on is an attitude of superiority and expectation because you probably excelled in your leaving cert and came from a wealthy family. I could have made my money by now with my primary degree if I was that way inclined. However, like many other students and doctors I know, we have chosen an incredibly privileged career path because of a sense of public service rather a desire to chase cash. I'll come back in a year's time to this forum to post my experience as an intern to see if this attitude changes but I'm certain it won't.

While I fully appreciate the frustrations of some doctors (including those above), I think the voice of the disgruntled few is most prominent online and doesn't really reflect my own experience of colleagues, who by in large say that they love their jobs. I think this is important for those considering GEM to hear because they'll already have considered all the negatives by now.
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04-04-2018, 18:39   #32
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I think some of the comments above from current doctors are slightly condescending towards GEMS / potential GEMS, whether they mean to be or not. Do you think intelligent people with existing good quality degrees just jump into medicine and the related debt, personal and family sacrifice without full consideration of what that involves, phlebotomy and all? As others have said, there are plenty of other professions where you are required to work long hours, often doing monotonous or menial tasks too - medicine doesn't have exclusivity on that. What medicine probably does have almost exclusivity on is an attitude of superiority and expectation because you probably excelled in your leaving cert and came from a wealthy family. I could have made my money by now with my primary degree if I was that way inclined. However, like many other students and doctors I know, we have chosen an incredibly privileged career path because of a sense of public service rather a desire to chase cash. I'll come back in a year's time to this forum to post my experience as an intern to see if this attitude changes but I'm certain it won't.

While I fully appreciate the frustrations of some doctors (including those above), I think the voice of the disgruntled few is most prominent online and doesn't really reflect my own experience of colleagues, who by in large say that they love their jobs. I think this is important for those considering GEM to hear because they'll already have considered all the negatives by now.

I think the most condescending thing that has been said in this thread has been you telling someone they should have done more research as they clearly weren't suited to medicine.

Medicine is a tough and rewarding career. But I think the GEM loan is huge considering payscales. I cant imagine it can be paid back in less than 8-10 years. Having said that you will never be unemployed.
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04-04-2018, 18:58   #33
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I think the most condescending thing that has been said in this thread has been you telling someone they should have done more research as they clearly weren't suited to medicine.
Do you think so? You're clearly blinkered to any posts that don't reinforce your own views, then. We've been told in numerous posts in numerous treads by brendanwalsh how awful medicine is in Ireland and how naive we all are for rushing into it; my comment was in response to that.

In relation to the debt, would you rather pay 700 a month for 10 years to do something you love, or be miserable for the rest of your life in an unsatisfactory job, regretting never going for medicine? Because these are the choices that GEM students have made before taking it on.
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04-04-2018, 20:25   #34
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Do you think so? You're clearly blinkered to any posts that don't reinforce your own views, then. We've been told in numerous posts in numerous treads by brendanwalsh how awful medicine is in Ireland and how naive we all are for rushing into it; my comment was in response to that.

In relation to the debt, would you rather pay 700 a month for 10 years to do something you love, or be miserable for the rest of your life in an unsatisfactory job, regretting never going for medicine? Because these are the choices that GEM students have made before taking it on.

I don't think I'm blinkered at all. It shouldn't be an echo chamber here.

You said someone was unsuited to do their job. That's a hugely insulting thing to say to anyone.

I don't think GEM is a particularly bad choice for anyone. You'll never be unemployed. What I think it's important to say is that medicine can require big sacrifices. It's easier to make those sacrifices when you don't have children or a mortgage and are tied yo one place. The older you are the more difficult those things become. Pretty much all yhe schemes will send you round a province.
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04-04-2018, 21:34   #35
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To answer the original question: it depends.

If you want to be a plastic surgeon, it's earlier, if you want to be a GP, it's later.

I've worked for bosses who came back to do medicine at a later age, or indeed did a lot of training in one are and then moved specialty. They are outliers though, and the majority of your colleagues will be doing medicine as their first job from the age of 24/25.

I'd advise talking to people currently working in Ireland. I'm a GEM working at the SpR level. I've made my feelings about working in Ireland very clear in previous threads so won't go into it in as much detail here. I can only speak from experience, but I love my job. I have plenty of friends who love their jobs. Similarly, I know far too many doctors, both scheme and off-scheme who are unhappy. As others have pointed out, do your research before you commit to anything.

Just to add another data point. My take home with OT (all of it paid - and in a peripheral ) is approx 3.6 - 3.8k a month depending on how many Saturdays I've worked.
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04-04-2018, 22:43   #36
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Just to add another data point. My take home with OT (all of it paid - and in a peripheral ) is approx 3.6 - 3.8k a month depending on how many Saturdays I've worked.
That's significantly better than Joe Soap. And with the possibility of significant further career advancement. Most people wont come near your current basic salary, even at the end of their careers.

As for a €100k loan, as a Cost Benefit Analysis, it's a very good investment.
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04-04-2018, 23:30   #37
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That's significantly better than Joe Soap. And with the possibility of significant further career advancement. Most people wont come near your current basic salary, even at the end of their careers.

As for a €100k loan, as a Cost Benefit Analysis, it's a very good investment.
I earn 3k net a month as a teacher so I’m surprised that this is the wage I would expect a doctor would have been on more (even at beginning of their career). It would be difficult to pay a mortgage and a loan for GEM on that to be fair. Thank you for the information it’s great to see reality of being a doctor starting out in Ireland.

Edit: sorry this is supposed to be in reply to Pierre_Robin 😊
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05-04-2018, 00:37   #38
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That's significantly better than Joe Soap. And with the possibility of significant further career advancement. Most people wont come near your current basic salary, even at the end of their careers.

As for a €100k loan, as a Cost Benefit Analysis, it's a very good investment.
Did you do this cost benefit analysis in your head ?

100k loan is a very bad investment.
It will be the guts of 130 to 150k in total depending on how far out you stretch the repayments. This doesn't account for the opportunity cost of working for the four years in college and the opportunity cost of earning a lower salary for your first few years as a nchd than you would have earned if in a senior position in your old job. Obviously if you worked in spar you won't have been on much but if you were an actuary or pharmacist you could expect 6 figures.

Let's not start on the time value of money or the inflation rate when paying back your money. Hse salaries don't rise in concordance with same.

There are easier ways of earning 6 or 7 hundred quid a week.

As example above the teacher with 4.5 months holidays per year on the same wage as a spr working 90 hours a week.
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05-04-2018, 07:07   #39
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As example above the teacher with 4.5 months holidays per year on the same wage as a spr working 90 hours a week.
I don't work 90 hours a week. I used to, but not anymore. I'm in a busy specialty as well. If I did, my estimate of my take home is closer to 4.5k.

Pension is also quite good, and guaranteed as well. I'm not in finance, but I think it's called a defined benefit pension and is not the norm.

We should be paid more, agreed. I'm not skint though, and haven't done a catheter in aaaaaaaaages!

Last edited by Pierre_Robin; 05-04-2018 at 07:08. Reason: Added a bit
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05-04-2018, 07:12   #40
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I earn 3k net a month as a teacher so I’m surprised that this is the wage I would expect a doctor would have been on more (even at beginning of their career). It would be difficult to pay a mortgage and a loan for GEM on that to be fair. Thank you for the information it’s great to see reality of being a doctor starting out in Ireland.

Edit: sorry this is supposed to be in reply to Pierre_Robin 😊
Not that difficult to pay to be honest, maybe I don't have an otherwise expensive life?

I'm surprised at 3k a month as a teacher, I imagine you're relatively senior? From my reading of the paper I thought teachers earned feck all.

Doctors aren't as well paid as the rte news makes out, not nchds at least. Consultants with private practice are another story.
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05-04-2018, 08:32   #41
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Not that difficult to pay to be honest, maybe I don't have an otherwise expensive life?

I'm surprised at 3k a month as a teacher, I imagine you're relatively senior? From my reading of the paper I thought teachers earned feck all.

Doctors aren't as well paid as the rte news makes out, not nchds at least. Consultants with private practice are another story.
8 years teaching and I do after school club 2 evenings and grinds 2 evenings. I would work say 9-3 every day and then an extra 2 hours two evenings (homework club) and 1 hour (for the grinds) 2 evenings. I do one week summer camp also and July Provision. I wouldn’t say it’s great money but definitely a good income that’s why I was surprised at a doctors take home feel lucky now. Without the extras (see above for all the nixers which add up it would be a lot lower). A year or two ago I was struggling so added in all them bits of extra work and made a good improvement in my take home. We have a mortgage on a big enough house and are relatively frugal and I still would find it next to impossible if I had a big loan to pay - I considered medicine myself this is why this thread is of particular interest to me. It’s not all about the money though and it’s not 100% ruled out in my mind yet as I see medicine as a really worthwhile intellectually demanding job.

Edit: younger teachers are on feck all and I will strike with them when the time comes - don’t think this is the norm I just came out at a better time than them.
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05-04-2018, 20:30   #42
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8 years teaching and I do after school club 2 evenings and grinds 2 evenings. I would work say 9-3 every day and then an extra 2 hours two evenings (homework club) and 1 hour (for the grinds) 2 evenings. I do one week summer camp also and July Provision. I wouldn’t say it’s great money but definitely a good income that’s why I was surprised at a doctors take home feel lucky now. Without the extras (see above for all the nixers which add up it would be a lot lower). A year or two ago I was struggling so added in all them bits of extra work and made a good improvement in my take home. We have a mortgage on a big enough house and are relatively frugal and I still would find it next to impossible if I had a big loan to pay - I considered medicine myself this is why this thread is of particular interest to me. It’s not all about the money though and it’s not 100% ruled out in my mind yet as I see medicine as a really worthwhile intellectually demanding job.

Edit: younger teachers are on feck all and I will strike with them when the time comes - don’t think this is the norm I just came out at a better time than them.
Ah that makes sense. Especially with the nixers. Fair play for doing the extra work!

Medicine isn't that intellectually demanding, it's mostly rote learning and pattern recognition.
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05-04-2018, 20:42   #43
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Ah that makes sense. Especially with the nixers. Fair play for doing the extra work!

Medicine isn't that intellectually demanding, it's mostly rote learning and pattern recognition.
Thanks it’s made me enjoy my career a lot more as I have a much more comfortable lifestyle. Very tough few years at the beginning and I feel really bad for our younger colleagues. It’s hard to enjoy a career when you don’t feel you are making a good living from it. I always (assumed I suppose!) that medicine would be intellectually demanding that’s what had me thinking it would be a lovely career.
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05-04-2018, 20:50   #44
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Never OP, age is but a number, don't let that restrict you.
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05-04-2018, 21:23   #45
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Ah that makes sense. Especially with the nixers. Fair play for doing the extra work!

Medicine isn't that intellectually demanding, it's mostly rote learning and pattern recognition.
Is the profession going to morph into Dr Google ?
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