Importing camper van from Germany

dowtchaboy · 28-04-2009 11:55am

To: peasant - I for one appreciate the voluntary work you do in contributing to, and moderating, this and other fora/forums (take yer choice...).

To: cammy - I did not like paying VRT on either of the 2 campers I have imported - but short of committing fraud there is no way out of it. If that's the way you want to go well fair enough - just don't mislead others into thinking it's as easy or as undetectable as you say. I understand that the decision on whether or not a van qualifies as a camper is NOT made in Galway or Dublin or Cork - it's made by some Revenue officers in a discreet, unsigned building just up the hill from the port of Rosslare (beside/behind the first petrol station) who use the measurements and sometimes photos taken by the officers at your local VRT office. They will also use the 'web to search out the original ads, check with the trade and camper clubs about realistic weights, and get information electronically from their German and other colleagues re the history of your vehicle. They are not stupid - they may be bored and a whiff of someone trying to fiddle the system is just the thing to liven up their day.
Again - I resent having to pay VRT - but until the law changes there is nothing I can legally do about it.
Good luck anyway.

cammy saoran · 28-04-2009 1:45pm

dowtchaboy..

thank you for your response I NEVER SAID ITS "UNDETECTABLE" don't know where you got that from,as i say if you weigh it yourself it's up to you,if it's a vrt weighing centre then obviously that would be stupidity,but as there charge ie vrt was labelled as illegal by european courts in 2005,i will always try to avoid it.that's just me and my way,and i was giving advise on that way if you were that way inclined.

what i did'nt appreciate was a trumped up moderator calling me names and saying i was talking bullsh!t/nonsense when i've done it and got the info from vrt themselves...

my last comment as this is just turning petty and ridiculous,thansk for the good luck and to yourself,and shiggy

peasant · 28-04-2009 1:50pm

cammy saoran wrote: »

my last comment

indeed it is, don't let the door hit you on the way out

cravings · 29-04-2009 1:05pm

when i recently brought my friend's van in, the man in the VRO just took the weight of the van from the german paperwork and didn't question it at all, there was never any talk of getting it weighed.

and yes Peasant, i also appreciate your moderation here. i read boards a lot, but dont really post at all.

peasant · 29-04-2009 1:30pm

cravings wrote: »

when i recently brought my friend's van in, the man in the VRO just took the weight of the van from the german paperwork and didn't question it at all, there was never any talk of getting it weighed.

I would guess that the paperwork probably stated weights either so far under or over the "magical" three tons empty that weighing was unnecessary.

Or you were just lucky

cravings · 29-04-2009 1:38pm

sadly no. it's just under 3t. the van has 2.9T stamped on the outside. as said earlier... ~€700 VRT was paid.

loobylou · 30-04-2009 6:34pm

cravings wrote: »

sadly no. it's just under 3t. the van has 2.9T stamped on the outside. as said earlier... ~€700 VRT was paid.

If you have declared it to be under 3 ton and therefore liable for duty there would be no point in them weighing it. It's if its declared slightly over the 3ton mark that they would check, especially if its a vehicle that they know would not normally be that heavy.
The irony is that our European partners are keeping vehicle weights down, allowing for a higher payload and more fuel economy, less emissions, etc but our tax system here encourages the exact opposite.

cravings · 01-05-2009 6:41pm

i don't get it at all. if that van weighed another 100kg... €700 less in VRT.

SourKraut · 13-06-2009 2:30pm

Useful thread this, just want to say a quick thanks to all the contributors (dowtchaboy particularly)

I'm actually living in Germany - foolishly I've left it too late to buy a car/van and bring it back with me without VRT, when I come back to ireland in a couple of months time. I'm gutted to find out the pop-top VW I was looking at today doesn't qualify as a camper. I'd have lived with 13.3%, but I won't pay 25-30%.

Might go for a cheap and cheerful 3.1 ton Ducato now instead. I'm shopping in the budget end of the market, 6 grand or so.

dowtchaboy · 15-06-2009 1:01pm

SourKraut wrote: »

Useful thread this, just want to say a quick thanks to all the contributors (dowtchaboy particularly)

I'm actually living in Germany - foolishly I've left it too late to buy a car/van and bring it back with me without VRT, when I come back to ireland in a couple of months time. I'm gutted to find out the pop-top VW I was looking at today doesn't qualify as a camper. I'd have lived with 13.3%, but I won't pay 25-30%.

Might go for a cheap and cheerful 3.1 ton Ducato now instead. I'm shopping in the budget end of the market, 6 grand or so.

That's a pity (about leaving it too late) - you have to own it for over 6 months, yes? Or is that just for new vehicles? Of course some one less scrupulous than you might retain their German address for a while for tax, insurance and other purposes before officially immigrating...... I guess the legality of it depends on at what point the Revenue consider you to have moved residence. I am not suggesting you break the law - just get advice on the legal possibilities.

Re the Ducato 3.1 tonne - make sure this is actual unladen weight not Gross Vehicle Weight (ie what it could weigh if it were loaded up with cargo to the legal max) - German ads quote the GVW - which could give you an unpleasant surprise at VRT time.... check through the sometimes emotive threads on this subject - I am not an expert.

By the way - I have noticed prices have dropped considerably here and in Germany in recent months. I have never seen so many affordable (say sub 15K) for sale, and I have never seen such a wide selection in Germany so late in the year - usually selection dries up by May June and you have to wait till October to see stuff back on the market. I wonder if it has anything to do with this emission/particulate restrictions being imposed in German cities? - some older diesel vans won't make it.

SourKraut · 15-06-2009 1:37pm

dowtchaboy

you're bang on there.

I can't really keep a german address, for a number of reasons I won't go into. Otherwise I suppose I could do that (after checking legality and/or taking a risk)

As you say, the Ducato isn't over 3 tonnnes, so I would be into paying VRT on it. It's just a guess as to what value the revenue will put on it, I suppose. I've started a thread on that separately

As for the diesel restrictions - that must have something to do with the increased supply around at the moment. Most of the older vans are not able to get an 'Umweltplakete' which is the sticker that you need to drive into most cities.

robmill · 04-07-2009 10:39pm

hi i am interested in going to germany to buy a motor home, can anyone reccomend any good dealers out there thanks

Macspower · 29-07-2009 3:37am

robmill wrote: »

hi i am interested in going to germany to buy a motor home, can anyone reccomend any good dealers out there thanks

before you go do some more checking here...

there is value to be had and the gap has certainly closed on the german prices.. while maybe still a bit cheaper I'm not sure it justifys the effort anymore

dowtchaboy · 29-07-2009 7:52am

Macspower wrote: »

before you go do some more checking here...

there is value to be had and the gap has certainly closed on the german prices.. while maybe still a bit cheaper I'm not sure it justifys the effort anymore

I agree. I imported 18 months ago - but now I find the selection, price and quality of what's available here has improved so much I might not have bothered. Of course "improved" depends on which side of the fence you are on! Mind you prices have dropped a bit in Germany too. The only ones here that are maintaining a serious premium are the righthand drive models. My guess is that is one of the most important tick boxes for a female driver?

There are still some dealers and sellers who have totally unrealistic ideas of what their van is worth - just like the house owners who imagine they can hold on till they get "what it's really worth" - it's "worth" what the buyers will pay and that's way down on last year. If you look around at websites and newspaper ads you'll spot vans that have been languishing there since LAST summer..... If it ain't selling it's priced too high, guys, and it ain't gonna get any better for a few years yet.

mikemike · 22-08-2009 3:58pm

hi all ,

When the lovely VRT people weigh the camper , can I still keep the safari room in the top box to bring up the weight ? or would they take this out as it's not 'connectd' or bolted onto the camper ..?

I need to bring the weight up by about 80 kgs ,, diesel tank won't take any more , it's full to the brim ..

the water tank has to be empty does it ?

also , do the vrt guys go by the unladen weight on the paperwork or by the weight as it sits on the weigh station in front of them ?

also , also , is the weight requiement 3,000kgs or 3,050 kgs ?
I was led to believe it was the latter ..

thanks

Macspower · 22-08-2009 6:52pm

not sure about the water tank but I would certainly fill both tank and waste tank... I know they are very much up to speed on these things now compared to a few years ago... they ahve a list of what each one should weigh...

I'm still for tacking lead flashing inside all the presses and floor of the van.... tell him your paranoid and in the event of a nuceluer bomb you believe all the lead will protect you

TigerTim · 22-08-2009 7:41pm

Borrow a big trolley jack from your friendly mechanic. That should gain you a good few KG's. 2 gas bottles with "heavy" gas;). Blankets rather than sleeping bags. Heavy spare wheel?

T.

peasant · 22-08-2009 8:08pm

Lads, you do realise that this is a public forum?
No more tax-dodging advice please.

dowtchaboy · 22-08-2009 8:35pm

I don't think you would have any problem justifying 2 items that maybe you could add: Full length wind-out awning, and a tow-hitch - on mine my guy had to add quite an amount of steel for this - and you might be allowed an extra 110 AH leisure battery if it is wired and strapped in - but don't forget that technically they can "get" you if you did not apply for VRT within a couple of days of bringing the van in to the country.
Oh - and a satellite dish might add a few Kg.

But Peasant is quite right - they probably read this forum too, and they know all the tricks.

mikemike · 23-08-2009 11:13am

thanks dowtchaboy ,

it already has a wind out awning attached , but I will need to attach a tow bar to tow a small trailer behind ..I was gonna do this at a later stage but might as well do it now .

still a little confused .... does the toilet flush tank have to be empty and the toilet waste tank ? and the fresh water tank ?

do the vrt guys (or girls , mustn't be sexist) take EVERYTHING out of the camper , sleeping bags , books etc. etc. basically everything that isn't bolted down ??

thanks .

peasant · 23-08-2009 11:29am

What's being weighed is the "unladen weight". To my knowledge there are no specific guidelines for campers on what exactly is to be considered load or not.

But a cupboard full of encyclopedias isn't exactly goingt to endear you to the VRT person, now is it.

There is recent EU legislation out there that states that manufacturers have to state the "empty weight" in the brochures for campers in a ready to use state. That does contain things like a 50% full water tank, a full fuel tank, all model/trim specific accessories, electric hookup cables and some other stuff ...but even there they do not allow for pots&pans and personal luggage.
Either way ...the "unladen weight" for VRT purposes is an altogether different animal and basically consists just of the vehicle(and anything that is permanently fixed to it), in a state ready to be driven. No water, no tanks full of sh!t, no books, no blankies.

milagan · 23-06-2010 3:25pm

You are lucky if your van weighs over 3000kg unladen as you will only have to pay €50. Anything under 3000kg and you will have to pay 13.5% of the book value of the van. This value is calculated by the vehicle regristartion office or the the customs and seems to be an arbitary figure depending on how hard up they are feeling this week. I am currently being asked to pay nearly €800 on a 1989 4 berth as they have somehow calculated that it is worth €6000 in this country.

Does anyone else feel that they have been ripped off by the Customs and if so have you ad any success in appeallling their decision?

Irishgoatman · 23-06-2010 3:44pm

Hi Miligan,
See my posting today under V.R.T.

dowtchaboy · 23-06-2010 4:02pm

Yes I had some success with an appeal. I documented it somewhere in this forum. Gathered up every ad I could find for similar vans and pointed out that it was LHD. You only have a limited time to do it though. Your personal circumstances, what you paid for it, and what senior Civil Servants make and the cushiness of their pensions are not relevant so keep it focussed!

It's worth spending a few hours drafting the letter if it gets you 100 or 200 back. Can't see them valuing it at less than 4k to be honest even though a car of that age would be deemed to be worth zero.

maclovin67 · 23-06-2010 7:09pm

i had sort of success in the fact that they had my rv down as a diesel instead of a petrol when i pointed this out they dropped vrt from 1350. to 880. but still a joke figure..but who can you appeal to????

good luck

wbmkk · 16-06-2011 1:57pm

Hi, I am a newbie here.

I intend importing a used VW campervan into the UK in a couple of months time and have just starting looking into the procedure.

After searching a while the most useful thread on any forum is this one here .. some very good information indeed.

The last post is almost a year old, so I was wondering whether anything has changed.

A colleague of mine bought a van, bringing it to the UK two years ago, or at least his father did that bit for him. He was saying the German export plates are legal in the UK for up to 1 year, but a posting on another forum said to drive the van straight from the port to the nearest DVLA.

Who is right ?

I am going to read all the postings here again (all 116 of them) and start making notes for myself. A couple of folk have offered to assist, by sending a private message, so I might take them up on that offer.

10 out of 10 for the thread

spaceHopper · 16-06-2011 3:01pm

Read the blong on supercamper.co.uk he will have a guide that is relavent to the Uk all be it Jap campers (you have to pay vat if it's from out side the eu). But this forum is more for Ireland do we can't say want the english system will be like except that you will be taxed less.

wbmkk wrote: »

Hi, I am a newbie here.

I intend importing a used VW campervan into the UK in a couple of months time and have just starting looking into the procedure.

After searching a while the most useful thread on any forum is this one here .. some very good information indeed.

The last post is almost a year old, so I was wondering whether anything has changed.

A colleague of mine bought a van, bringing it to the UK two years ago, or at least his father did that bit for him. He was saying the German export plates are legal in the UK for up to 1 year, but a posting on another forum said to drive the van straight from the port to the nearest DVLA.

Who is right ?

I am going to read all the postings here again (all 116 of them) and start making notes for myself. A couple of folk have offered to assist, by sending a private message, so I might take them up on that offer.

10 out of 10 for the thread

Buford T Justice · 16-06-2011 3:32pm

Yeah, the irish system is complicated at the best of times. We have enough trouble getting heads around this one never mind the UK one, sorry I couldn't be of more help.

peasant · 16-06-2011 7:02pm

wbmkk wrote: »

VW campervan the UK

let me point you to the perfect forum for all your questions:

http://forum.club8090.co.uk/

Importing camper van from Germany

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