Asti strike action

Alanna Most Tightrope wrote: »

I haven't read the whole thread but have seen the anger on the first page.

Teachers don't bother me but I will say one thing - the optics of a strike will look bad for teachers as they will be compared to other public sector workers and not favourably.

My wife is a HSE radiographer and deals with suspect Covid and confirmed Covid cases every day. She gets fully gowned up and goes into isolation rooms with a colleague to carry out portable x-rays on confirmed patients. She has carried out CT scans to confirm Covid on patients and all the usual duties as well.

The public I think will remember what some public sector staff did during this crisis and continue to do every day.

With luck common sense can prevail in the ASTI.

The optics for a strike never look good when talking about Education. At the moment I’m not in favour of a strike and to be honest I couldn’t see the into balloting members anytime soon.
I appreciate the work that HW do -I was tested last week and the professionalism and good natured manner of the staff really stood out to me.
What I find really frustrating is the inconsistent public health messages in relation to schools and the wider community. A full reopening of all schools for all children was the only option put forward by government. No mention of blended learning , no mention of any option that would help SD by physically reducing the number of pupils on site. Not teacher workload now in case there is any confusion.
As a school we worked our socks off to get this all back to school plan in place. We did our best to put strategies/ procedures in place to mitigate risk. It’s important to note that we are talking about mitigating risk not eliminating it as some are fond of claiming. We did the best we could based on guidelines from the dep . Guidelines in which the initial draft omitted any mention of airbourne transmission but included a line that teachers shouldn’t swipe cleaning supplies ( I kid you not) We were repeatedly told that children aren’t really affected by the disease and aren’t considered vectors. Good hand hygiene , good cough etiquette and all windows and doors open and we would be good to go.
Schools opened up we got back to this weird new normal - sanitising everything to within an inch of it’s life including our hands and windows and doors open. All good - then we had the drip drip of info - genuine very high risk teachers reclassified by medmark , confidentiality - no teacher / staff to be informed of a case in the school - head lice , scabies and a host if other illnesses are flagged to staff and warrant a letter home informing parents but not covid 19 pandemic or no pandemic. Then my favourite - not all children in a class will be considered a close contact . The public health team will decide this - advice which goes against that of the ECDC which considers all children in a class close contacts. Advice which also makes no sense to me given our class numbers and physical size of classrooms. but hey what do I know. and if course don’t forget level 5 country shut down bar schools hastily amended to em we’ll see when we get there what we’ll do.
We are back the bones of 2-3 weeks and we have over 115 schools affected with indications of possible transmission in schools. Does this mean I want all schools shut now !!! No but we need to get real we need to recognise that yes children do get and spread covid. We need a more nuanced plan with possible temporary localised closures based on the trajectory of the disease and we need to consider classmates of a confirmed case as close contacts and test test test. We also need more transparency around cases in schools and less of Leo’s bull**** that it probably won’t be principals fault if there are cases in schools. No Leo that lies squarely at the feet of this gov- only for the trojan work principals teachers SNA’s and BOM put in over the Summer schools wouldn’t be open.

Is this really the most sensible approach in the middle of a pandemic? What happened to talking and engaging?

Alanna Most Tightrope wrote: »

I haven't read the whole thread but have seen the anger on the first page.

Teachers don't bother me but I will say one thing - the optics of a strike will look bad for teachers as they will be compared to other public sector workers and not favourably.

My wife is a HSE radiographer and deals with suspect Covid and confirmed Covid cases every day. She gets fully gowned up and goes into isolation rooms with a colleague to carry out portable x-rays on confirmed patients. She has carried out CT scans to confirm Covid on patients and all the usual duties as well.

The public I think will remember what some public sector staff did during this crisis and continue to do every day.

With luck common sense can prevail in the ASTI.

Would your wife be allowed to work in a room of 30 members of the public while one is being tested, for 6 hours every day?

Does your wife have the equipment to carry out her job.?

Has your wife been told to buy her own equipment?

Has your wife been provided with masks and ppe etc by her employer or did she buy her own?

If your wife had an underlying medical condition and pregnant does she still have to go in?

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

What are they doing in other professions? Genuine question.

Genuine answer, I don't work in other professions.

But feel free to talk to me about how your profession is comparable to teaching.

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Would it not be good to check that out then? To see how other professions are getting on with working during the pandemic without calls for strike action? See what they have done?

Ya I'll go out with my clipboard first thing Monday mate.

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

You appear to be pretty wound up, I asked a genuine question and got 2 snarky responses from you as a result.

Think I'm going to leave you at it. Have a good Sunday.

Thats the best thing I've heard from a non-teacher on this forum ever.

Perhaps people in all professions, with underlying health conditions, that are not comfortable with returning to work can be put on the Pandemic Unemployment Payment, with their jobs protected until such time the pandemic has ended or they feel comfortable returning.

Seems like a fair compromise for all involved. Nobody would be forced back to work if they are uncomfortable with it.

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Perhaps people in all professions, with underlying health conditions, that are not comfortable with returning to work can be put on the Pandemic Unemployment Payment, with their jobs protected until such time the pandemic has ended or they feel comfortable returning.

Seems like a fair compromise for all involved. Nobody would be forced back to work if they are uncomfortable with it.

Something along the lines of this would seem like a fair solution going forward.

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Would it not be good to check that out then? To see how other professions are getting on with working during the pandemic without calls for strike action? See what they have done?

Well if you go into any shop or business in the last few months, you've probably had to queue to get into a large number of these places, particularly the ones that have a lot of customers like supermarkets etc. There is plenty of space that you can avoid other shoppers.

I've been into numerous shops in the town I live in that have a similar size space to my lab (or bigger) and the general thing is that only 2-5 people are allowed on the shop floor at any one time.

On the other hand, I am teaching in a room 49 sq metres (or thereabouts - the size of an average classroom according to the Dept of Education) and I have 24 students in it, plus me.

It doesn't take a maths genius to see the huge anomaly here. Also in a shop people are on the move around the shop and you're not likely to be in any close contact with another person for more than a few seconds. We have students sitting stationary for 40 minutes at a time. Repeated throughout the day.

If sitting 1m apart in a classroom is fine for students for 6 hours a day, then why is the Convention Centre rented out to serve as the Dail for the last couple of months? Surely they can sit 1m apart in Dail Eireann at no extra risk. It's not like many of them turn up at any given time anyway.

My school had a case this week, HSE said no further testing needed, student only has casual contacts in the school. Stephen Donnelly wasn't feeling well earlier this week, Dail was adjourned and he was tested and had the result within hours.

I know what this looks like to the public who love to hate teachers, but is it so unreasonable to expect a basic level of safety in our job? That is what the proposed strike action is about.

rainbowtrout wrote: »

My school had a case this week, HSE said no further testing needed, student only has casual contacts in the school. Stephen Donnelly wasn't feeling well earlier this week, Dail was adjourned and he was tested and had the result within hours.

To add to this, a teacher in St. Oliver's in Drogheda had a confirmed case and the HSE sent half the students and teachers home. So that's maybe 500 parents who have to take time off work at zero notice, not to mention the obvious disruption in school work, homework etc.

The other half of students and teachers were not told to go home, not even tested, but they're still working away with no direction from the HSE.

How does this make any sense?

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I would agree that neither option is great. Some form of half in, half out might work in some situations, but it is incredibly frustrating to see people pile into threads such as this one with 'teachers are always whinging, why can't they just get on with their jobs like the rest of the public sector' type attitudes. We do want to do our jobs, but it would be nice if some basic safety precautions were put in place.

Between staff and students there are about 500 people in the building I work in during the day, yet there is a restriction of 50 people going to a GAA match of which most of that is the players and coaches etc, in an open air ground where there is plenty of opportunity to keep your distance.




This is taken from the Level 2 guidelines


Up to 50 people can attend controlled indoor gatherings in pods or groups of up to six for business, training events, conferences, theatres, cinemas and other arts events

- Up to 100 people are permitted in larger venues with social distancing and one-way systems


My school (and I would say the vast majority of schools) does not meet these guidelines.



These are the Level 5 guidelines

People will be asked to stay home except to exercise within five kilometres of home

- No gatherings other than attending funerals or weddings

- Attendance at a wedding ceremony or reception remains at six guests


- Attendance at funerals reduced to 10 mourners

- Wet pubs can only offer takeaway or delivery service

- Schools, creches and universities will remain open




For all the non teachers posting here, can you please explain what it is you think ASTI have a problem with here???

Level 5 (if it happens anywhere) is a return to April style lockdown, but schools remain open? No gatherings of any sort (except funerals/weddings of 6/10) but we can have hundreds of students/staff in a school every day????

It does not make sense.

It's about ensuring the country still has a minimal amount of function in all the key areas. Also remaining open at level 5 would be hospitals, grocery stores, garda stations, post offices, nursing homes, public transport, GPs, pharmacy, fire stations etc etc. So it is about ensuring that the vital resources in the country continue to function at all times.

rainbowtrout wrote: »

None of those services are crowding 500 people into a building at once though. Nursing homes and hospitals which probably have the most people in them have restrictions such as no visitors. Not comparing like for like at all.

Most of the rest have some queuing system in operation.

I assume there are restrictions on visitors to schools also? I would be astounded if not.

Hospitals tend to be quite crowded in certain departments. Particularly in ED. Aren't 30% of COVID cases medical staff?