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Guinness Pro12 Season 2020-2021

12357…32

Comments

  • #122
    OldRio
    Registered Users Posts: 5,906 ✭✭✭OldRio


    The Pro14 isn't competitive they said. Far to easy they said. The 4 top teams from the World Cup winners join and still people complain. Have we all turned Welsh?


  • #123
    AdamD
    Registered Users Posts: 12,370 ✭✭✭✭AdamD


    Digifriendly wrote: »
    Whole thing is a farce. English and French must be laughing at Pro 14. Have a BI League instead - travel costs cut down dramatically in post Covid economic climate. What to do with S. African teams - that's anyone's guess.

    I doubt the English are in any position to laugh at anyone.


  • #124
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 9,949 ✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    This could be a prelude or addendum to moves for a B&I league, given CVC's involvement. Wishful thinking to be sure, makes too much sense.


  • #125
    UAEguy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    Remember when they said the Cheetahs and Kings would dominate our “little league and teams in 2017”....


  • #126
    UAEguy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    Digifriendly wrote: »
    Whole thing is a farce. English and French must be laughing at Pro 14. Have a BI League instead - travel costs cut down dramatically in post Covid economic climate. What to do with S. African teams - that's anyone's guess.

    They need something to do most KO Champions cup weekends anyway.


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  • #127
    Blut2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭Blut2


    Fantastic news. The big 4 SA teams should provide a boost to the competitiveness of the league, and a much needed financial boost from additional broadcast revenue.

    I'd guess we'll end up with 4 conferences:

    4 Irish teams
    4 SA teams
    4 Welsh Teams
    2 Scottish & 2 Italian teams

    You play each team in your own conference home & away (6 games, and it preserves all the important local rivalry games in full). And then you play each of the other teams either home or away, alternating each year (ie the Sharks & Bulls play in Dublin in 2021, the Stormers & Lions in 2022) - for another 12 games.

    Thats quite fair, follows the 6 Nations home/away precedent, and results in an 18 game regular season - which is manageable.

    It should lead to some nice mini-tours of SA for teams and fans, presuming the teams play both of their games down there at the same time for logistical/financial reasons. A 10 day trip to SA in January, to play/watch two games, will be rather pleasant for everyone involved.


  • #128
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    There's no chance the unions would agree a conference system where their own teams eliminate themselves.


  • #129
    Blut2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭Blut2


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    There's no chance the unions would agree a conference system where their own teams eliminate themselves.


    I would imagine playoff contention would be decided on overall league position, not conference position, to prevent just that. The top 6 teams overall in the league.


  • #130
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,791 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    There's no chance the unions would agree a conference system where their own teams eliminate themselves.
    You could run it like that, but just have one table. Top eight in the playoffs.


  • #131
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 9,949 ✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I'd prefer to play every team once, with the local derbies to round it out. Aim for an 18 game season, with top 4 play off


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  • #132
    Digifriendly
    Registered Users Posts: 4,015 ✭✭✭Digifriendly


    With present Pandemic crisis likely to last well into next year I think it highly unlikely that SA teams will be included for some time.


  • #133
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,791 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Digifriendly wrote: »
    With present Pandemic crisis likely to last well into next year I think it highly unlikely that SA teams will be included for some time.

    Well the plan is obviously the 2021/22 season, so it would be this time next year.


  • #134
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users Posts: 11,098 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Scarlets away kit.

    https://twitter.com/kryptonknight83/status/1311585369889144834?s=19


  • #135
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Just thinking about the SA teams joining the league. Will that not make scheduling an absolute nightmare? Take for example the 2 conferences of 8 idea. Effectively that will mean each SA team having to host 8 NH teams and each NH team having to travel to 3 SA teams.

    But the way that the season is currently structured it is going to be impossible for all teams to play a 3 week block in SA. There are simply not enough 3 week blocks to facilitate this. We have 6, maybe 7 weeks before the first 2 European games. Then we have a couple of random weeks during the November AIs. Then over Christmas we'll have the derbies so won't be travelling. Then it's the SA summer so games in SA will have to be minimal and with the final couple of European games as well as the 6Ns on we don't play a whole lot of games in the league anyway. Then the remainder of the season is interrupted by the European KOs with basically 3 two week blocks.

    If we do end up with 2 conferences of 8 then there will be teams that will need to travel to SA more than once in a season, which isn't ideal. I can see all of this becoming a real headache for the organisers.


  • #136
    Squidgy Black
    Registered Users Posts: 21,605 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    Are we not falling into the exact rut that Super Rugby fell into with it's conferences before the Cheetahs and Kings left?


  • #137
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Squidgy Black wrote: »
    Are we not falling into the exact rut that Super Rugby fell into with it's conferences before the Cheetahs and Kings left?

    Not necessarily. They had 3 conferences spread over 3 completely different time zones. 2 conferences within effectively the same timezone is definitely easier on audiences.

    If we overcomplicate it though we will be falling into the same rut.


  • #138
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 9,949 ✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Just thinking about the SA teams joining the league. Will that not make scheduling an absolute nightmare? Take for example the 2 conferences of 8 idea. Effectively that will mean each SA team having to host 8 NH teams and each NH team having to travel to 3 SA teams.

    But the way that the season is currently structured it is going to be impossible for all teams to play a 3 week block in SA. There are simply not enough 3 week blocks to facilitate this. We have 6, maybe 7 weeks before the first 2 European games. Then we have a couple of random weeks during the November AIs. Then over Christmas we'll have the derbies so won't be travelling. Then it's the SA summer so games in SA will have to be minimal and with the final couple of European games as well as the 6Ns on we don't play a whole lot of games in the league anyway. Then the remainder of the season is interrupted by the European KOs with basically 3 two week blocks.

    If we do end up with 2 conferences of 8 then there will be teams that will need to travel to SA more than once in a season, which isn't ideal. I can see all of this becoming a real headache for the organisers.

    The schedule piece is a cluster ****. Leagues tying themselves into knots for a lack of willingness to organise it sensibly. Majority of problems are solved if they'd just move things around and make a logical flow. League, to Euro to international.


  • #139
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    AbusesToilets wrote: »
    The schedule piece is a cluster ****. Leagues tying themselves into knots for a lack of willingness to organise it sensibly. Majority of problems are solved if they'd just move things around and make a logical flow. League, to Euro to international.

    Good luck selling that to the French clubs and their supporters. It's not a logical flow just because it's the way we do things here.


  • #140
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,944 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    listening to the Scrum V podcast and the welsh are already complaining about the SA sides joining

    the main gripe about it from their view as fans is, unless your ultra rich you wont go to SA to watch your side play, they wont bring any fans, and when the internationals are away you wont recognise any of the other players on the bokke squads.

    they sound "hopeful" that the four teams will add to the quality of the league and make it more competitive.

    reallys sounds like they have no idea of the quality of the SA super rugby sides.

    also, listening to Keith Wood on wednesday night... he seemed to be of the view that south africa sides only play forward power based rugby.
    he obviously also doesnt watch much super rugby. The lions have been the losing finalists for 3 season in a row between 2016 and 2018, 2 years under johan ackermann, who had them playing synthilating ball moving orientated rugby. The only bokke side that i would say really focuses on forward rugby is the sharks, but thats their club identity. Stormers and Bulls are a good mixture of both, and the lions are more free flowing as mentioned earlier.


  • #141
    Utah_Saint
    Registered Users Posts: 1,775 ✭✭✭Utah_Saint


    sydthebeat wrote: »

    the main gripe about it from their view as fans is, unless your ultra rich you wont go to SA to watch your side play, they wont bring any fans, and when the internationals are away you wont recognise any of the other players on the bokke squads.

    .


    The Welsh don't even watch their own teams at Home...


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  • #142
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 9,949 ✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Good luck selling that to the French clubs and their supporters. It's not a logical flow just because it's the way we do things here.

    Well, that's kinda the issue, isn't it? The current lawsuit brought by the French clubs against their union is built around player release conflict between club and country. A conflict that could be alleviated by a proper calendar.


  • #143
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users Posts: 11,098 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    1000 allowed at zebre game tonight.

    masks being used by those in attendance to prop up a lot of chins and zebre seem to have got new lightbulbs for their floodlights


  • #144
    UAEguy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    I thought the Sharks looked very good this year but in general I don’t think the SA sides have been that good the last few years bar the Lions but I think a factor is that they would lose a lot of players to the North as they really aren’t that well funded. Lions are the best example, they just aren’t the same in in the last 1.5 seasons as they were 2016-2018. Personally I am always surprised as how ordinary the Stormers are as I think on paper at least they should be really competing in SR, atleast compared the the other SA sides.


  • #145
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,944 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    UAEguy2020 wrote: »
    I thought the Sharks looked very good this year but in general I don’t think the SA sides have been that good the last few years bar the Lions but I think a factor is that they would lose a lot of players to the North as they really aren’t that well funded. Lions are the best example, they just aren’t the same in in the last 1.5 seasons as they were 2016-2018. Personally I am always surprised as how ordinary the Stormers are as I think on paper at least they should be really competing in SR, atleast compared the the other SA sides.

    Hummm

    Methinks you haven't watched super rugby recently.

    Stormers 4 wins 1 loss in the South African Conference before covid, playing great rugby... They're arguably the best bokke side currently


  • #146
    UAEguy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    Hummm

    Methinks you haven't watched super rugby recently.

    Stormers 4 wins 1 loss in the South African Conference before covid, playing great rugby... They're arguably the best bokke side currently


    I meant in general, this season they have been good but over the past few years they have never really got close to winning SR.



    No I would still say the Sharks have been the best, winning 3/4 Trans tasmanian clashes away from home and quite comfortably too. Stormers havent even left SA yet.


  • #147
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,944 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    UAEguy2020 wrote: »
    I meant in general, this season they have been good but over the past few years they have never really got close to winning SR.



    No I would still say the Sharks have been the best, winning 3/4 Trans tasmanian clashes away from home and quite comfortably too. Stormers have even left SA yet.

    Agreed about stormers Performances in the last few seasons.... But I wouldn't be touting away wins against the rebels, reds and highlanders as a sign of the Sharks superiority over stormers.

    Stormers beat hurricanes 27 - 0 in round 1 whereas sharks were beaten by the same team in round 3.

    Really though, theres not much between them, and both would be vying to be the best SA....


  • #148
    UAEguy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    Agreed about stormers Performances in the last few seasons.... But I wouldn't be touting away wins against the rebels, reds and highlanders as a sign of the Sharks superiority over stormers.

    Stormers beat hurricanes 27 - 0 in round 1 whereas sharks were beaten by the same team in round 3.

    Really though, theres not much between them, and both would be vying to be the best SA....


    They arent really incredible wins but in the end you would be saying one is supperior over the other based on one win which isnt a great way of comparing the two either.



    I do think Sharks would edge it at the minute but I agree the two are comfortably the best in SA right now and it would be close to decide who's Nr1 in SA.


  • #149
    connachta
    Registered Users Posts: 7,963 ✭✭✭connachta


    I hope those teams will be Cheetahs-like
    Add style, intersting rugby but not too competitive, to let Connacht in peace and not pushing for any future demand to open the Euro-cup rights


  • #150
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,944 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    connachta wrote: »
    I hope those teams will be Cheetahs-like
    Add style, intersting rugby but not too competitive, to let Connacht in peace and not pushing for any future demand to open the Euro-cup rights

    Be prepared to be very disappointed


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  • #151
    Blut2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭Blut2


    connachta wrote: »
    I hope those teams will be Cheetahs-like
    Add style, intersting rugby but not too competitive, to let Connacht in peace and not pushing for any future demand to open the Euro-cup rights

    I'd wager going forward if we keep a format where 6 teams qualify for the playoffs it'll end up mostly being 2 Irish, 2 SA, 1 Welsh, 1 Scottish most years. Based on the last few years of performance anyway. So probably not good news for Connacht, unless they can reliably overtake Munster/Ulster.

    With obvious European Cup implications if/when the Saffers get approved to play in it, too. I can't see them being kept out for too long - them taking part would add a huge number of viewers for the competition, and all the resultant increased broadcast/sponsor revenue. The financially struggling English teams won't be able to resist that.


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