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Tech Air 5

  • 08-05-2020 9:31pm
    #1
    PCeeeee
    Registered Users Posts: 1,465 ✭✭✭


    I have to say I like the look of this. I want to hear maintainance costs etc. but I would def be interested.

    What do ye think?

    Is there many using similar? Helites, Ixon, Dainese smart vest etc.?


Comments

  • #2
    PCeeeee
    Registered Users Posts: 1,465 ✭✭✭PCeeeee


    PCeeeee wrote: »
    I have to say I like the look of this. I want to hear maintainance costs etc. but I would def be interested.

    What do ye think?

    Is there many using similar? Helites, Ixon, Dainese smart vest etc.?

    So I bought one. Its charging atm but first impressions are good. It's heavier than I expected but I removed the chest and back protection from my jackets so overall weight is much the same.

    Fits snugly but comfortably and doesn't feel overly hot. Reviews from the US says it can get warm on a hot day but I think that's less of a problem here.

    I will keep this updated (prob) with my findings. Any qs ask away.


  • #3
    Skill Magill
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Skill Magill


    Dude, I had to look up what it was from the title, there is an interesting thread on air vests here :
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=112368808

    Could you link to the vest you bought?


  • #4
    PCeeeee
    Registered Users Posts: 1,465 ✭✭✭PCeeeee


    Skill Magill wrote: »
    Dude, I had to look up what it was from the title, there is an interesting thread on air vests here :
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=112368808

    Could you link to the vest you bought?

    Sure. https://www.alpinestars.com/pages/tech-air-5


  • #5
    H_Lime
    Registered Users Posts: 1,673 ✭✭✭H_Lime


    You lost me at "charging"! :eek:


  • #6
    PCeeeee
    Registered Users Posts: 1,465 ✭✭✭PCeeeee


    Yeah H, look I know it won't be for everyone but I'm just hoping to share my experience with fellow motorcyclists.

    It's an expensive bit of gear and it's hard to shell out without knowing what it's like. Hopefully I can give a warts n all review so everyone else is better informed if it's for them or not.


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  • #7
    Wonda-Boy
    Registered Users Posts: 10,013 ✭✭✭✭Wonda-Boy


    Yeah with batteries etc things can go wrong and not work or some little thing and it does not go off. That is one of the main reasons I went with the Helite, its just plain old school lanyard....not alot that can go wrong with that.

    Looks the bizzo all the same and fair play for taking the extra step in protecting yourself.


  • #8
    PCeeeee
    Registered Users Posts: 1,465 ✭✭✭PCeeeee


    Wonda-Boy wrote: »
    Yeah with batteries etc things can go wrong and not work or some little thing and it does not go off. That is one of the main reasons I went with the Helite, its just plain old school lanyard....not alot that can go wrong with that.

    Looks the bizzo all the same and fair play for taking the extra step in protecting yourself.

    And you can re-gas the Helite yourself and cheaply. Major advantage.


  • #9
    LLewellen Farquarson
    Registered Users Posts: 407 ✭✭LLewellen Farquarson


    Looks like a good piece of kit.
    The major advantage I see is that (from the videos), it deploys in a T-bone situation. With a tethered airvest, unless the bike rotates over the front wheel, and launches you so that the lanyard is pulled, it is not going to deploy. You need a certain amount of slack on the lanyard, e.g. just to stand up on the pegs during a ride, and the fact that it's clipped on to the trigger in front of you, if you hit a main body of a car/truck etc, I can't see it ( the teathered one) deploying. If you hit the front bonnet etc, then it should deploy.

    So from that perspective, i'd see the Tec-air5 as better.

    On saying that, no gear is going to cover every crash senario.

    The disadvantages I see are cost (600€), and the fact that, if deployed, it has to be sent back to Alpinstars to be recharged, which will be expensive. Although it it saves hospital/funeral bills, then that could be overlooked :) )
    Also, your jacket has to have around 1.5 inches all round to accomodate the inflation.
    And the vest incorporates a back protector, so if you stop during a ride, and take off your jacket, you also have to take off the vest to get rid of the back protector. Small niggles I know.

    Regarding recharging, it wouldn't bother me, just to remember to plug it in when hanging it up. I do the same with my phone, and scala comms at the moment anyway, so no biggie.


  • #10
    PCeeeee
    Registered Users Posts: 1,465 ✭✭✭PCeeeee


    LLewellen Farquarson wrote: »

    If deployed, it has to be sent back to Alpinstars to be recharged, which will be expensive.

    Yup, a stinging €300. There is talk (US admitedly) that outlets will be trained to do it eventually theoretically bringing down the cost.

    I think this tech will gradually become cheaper and cheaper but early adopters pay a premium. Usually I run a mile from early adoption of anything but from a risk point of view this makes sense to me.


  • #11
    dmigsy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,792 ✭✭✭dmigsy


    I'm considering the Dainese version. Want to try it on to make sure it fits under my jackets. How bulky is the tech-air?


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  • #12
    PCeeeee
    Registered Users Posts: 1,465 ✭✭✭PCeeeee


    dmigsy wrote: »
    I'm considering the Dainese version. Want to try it on to make sure it fits under my jackets. How bulky is the tech-air?

    Tough to answer. Not bulky at all in front, shoulders etc but a definite hump on the back where the control unit/back protector is. You can see it through the jacket.


  • #13
    PCeeeee
    Registered Users Posts: 1,465 ✭✭✭PCeeeee


    In a effort to prove I have managed to fix an electrical issue with my bike. I took three shortish rides today. Wore the vest and have nothing of note to report.

    Astars app is 'fiddly'. Seems to take it's time to connect to the vest and doesn't record all the rides. I suspect this is gps related as my fitbit has the same issue round home. Be interesting to see if this persists in more urban areas.

    Incidentally one of the things that pushed me towards the Tech Air was that one of the other options the in&motion tech (Held Ixs etc.) reputedly wont fire if it's not connected to gps


  • #14
    PCeeeee
    Registered Users Posts: 1,465 ✭✭✭PCeeeee


    Used the vest for a week now.

    Quibbles: The Astars app is useless. Wont connect. Does connect. Then disconnects. Poor. You dont need it for the vest to work though so it's not the end of the world.

    The magnetic tab that turns it on connects very handy zipped up or not. Also turns on if the tab is behind the zipper so you risk having it on inadvertently.

    Also the LEDs that denote on/off are hard to see once your helmet is on and worse when its under your jacket. I'm not sure how that could be improved though as it's in pretty much the best position it could be. Maybe a remote im indicator.

    Apart from that. Its comfortable and you more or less forget about it. Happy enough so far.


  • #15
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,612 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    PCeeeee wrote: »
    Yup, a stinging €300. There is talk (US admitedly) that outlets will be trained to do it eventually theoretically bringing down the cost.

    I think this tech will gradually become cheaper and cheaper but early adopters pay a premium. Usually I run a mile from early adoption of anything but from a risk point of view this makes sense to me.

    Tbh this tech has been around decades in car airbags and life vests for sea use. It's not breaking new ground at all so the cost is a known entity. I can guarantee these are not loss makers whatsoever


  • #16
    Alkers
    Registered Users Posts: 6,811 ✭✭✭Alkers


    listermint wrote: »
    Tbh this tech has been around decades in car airbags and life vests for sea use. It's not breaking new ground at all so the cost is a known entity. I can guarantee these are not loss makers whatsoever

    I think the complicated tech is the vest firing without a tether/lanyard, not the airbag itself.


  • #17
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,612 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Alkers wrote: »
    I think the complicated tech is the vest firing without a tether/lanyard, not the airbag itself.

    That's extremely uncomplicated. It's accelerometer technology the chips are next to nothing cost wise and have been used for decades in all sorts of applications. Every smart phone in the world has two. It reacts to swift movements in meters per second and sends command.

    None of this breaks new ground nor should be 600 euro either.

    Even the cheapest theft trackers and car dashcams contain this technology


  • #18
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,871 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    listermint wrote: »
    That's extremely uncomplicated. It's accelerometer technology the chips are next to nothing cost wise and have been used for decades in all sorts of applications. Every smart phone in the world has two. It reacts to swift movements in meters per second and sends command.

    None of this breaks new ground nor should be 600 euro either.

    Even the cheapest theft trackers and car dashcams contain this technology

    There's a bit more involved in getting an airbag for a motor bike rider to fire at the correct time than a car airbag, hard wired sensors, or a tracker, which only have to report the movement not decide is the rider doing a 50 degree lean at 100km/h or failing off.

    No doubt there's also an early adapter mark up but you can't compare a motorcycle airvest to a car airbag or a tracking device.


  • #19
    Alkers
    Registered Users Posts: 6,811 ✭✭✭Alkers


    listermint wrote: »
    That's extremely uncomplicated. It's accelerometer technology the chips are next to nothing cost wise and have been used for decades in all sorts of applications. Every smart phone in the world has two. It reacts to swift movements in meters per second and sends command.

    None of this breaks new ground nor should be 600 euro either.

    Even the cheapest theft trackers and car dashcams contain this technology

    I don't think so, the accelerometers themselves may be but in terms of when to fire the jacket is a bit of a step up from this, it's not as simple as detect a bump, turn on dashcam. There was a lot of information on the dainese and alpine stars websites some years back when i looked into them previously but on phone now so not checking.


  • #20
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,612 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Alkers wrote: »
    I don't think so, the accelerometers themselves may be but in terms of when to fire the jacket is a bit of a step up from this, it's not as simple as detect a bump, turn on dashcam. There was a lot of information on the dainese and alpine stars websites some years back when i looked into them previously but on phone now so not checking.

    Accelerometers have nothing to do with hitting a bump. We've been using them in our hardware in work for about 11 years detecting G forces on vehicles. That's hard cornering , heavy braking and excessive acceleration. People that are bamboozled by it don't know the tech or the history of it.

    This is old tech cheap to manufacture. The jackets realistic RRP should be circa 200 Euro and with that you'd have a very healthy margin. They cost probably 50 euro in parts and labour tbh. If you get into fancier materials on the units finishing then obviously double that.


  • #21
    H_Lime
    Registered Users Posts: 1,673 ✭✭✭H_Lime


    listermint wrote: »
    They cost probably 50 euro in parts and labour tbh.
    Lister make em for 65! :pac:


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  • #22
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,612 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    H_Lime wrote: »
    Lister make em for 65! :pac:

    Sure there's no margin there :D


  • #23
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,871 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    listermint wrote: »
    Accelerometers have nothing to do with hitting a bump. We've been using them in our hardware in work for about 11 years detecting G forces on vehicles. That's hard cornering , heavy braking and excessive acceleration. People that are bamboozled by it don't know the tech or the history of it.

    This is old tech cheap to manufacture. The jackets realistic RRP should be circa 200 Euro and with that you'd have a very healthy margin. They cost probably 50 euro in parts and labour tbh. If you get into fancier materials on the units finishing then obviously double that.

    The cost of the parts is irrelevant to the cost to the vest. They've had to do huge amounts of development work to get the parts to function correctly and not go off when the rider is going hard. Your usage of the devices is nothing like the usage of the devices required for a safety critical vest that can't go off at the wrong time and has to go off at the correct time, that's where the cost is.

    If they are so easy and cheap why haven't any other manufactures, or the Chinese, got similar vests for E200 and kill Alpine Stars?


  • #24
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,612 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Del2005 wrote: »
    The cost of the parts is irrelevant to the cost to the vest. They've had to do huge amounts of development work to get the parts to function correctly and not go off when the rider is going hard. Your usage of the devices is nothing like the usage of the devices required for a safety critical vest that can't go off at the wrong time and has to go off at the correct time, that's where the cost is.

    If they are so easy and cheap why haven't any other manufactures, or the Chinese, got similar vests for E200 and kill Alpine Stars?

    They will very quickly if there's a market.

    I don't think there is one.

    Your putting too much emphasis on development. All of the dev is done decades ago. Your phone is probably about a billion times more intelligent than that vest.

    Honestly I think you're assuming there's millions gone into putting this vest to market. It's the same as the pull strings with an accelerometer put into it . And they come with many caveats of when the don't fire. If anything theyre set to not go off in nearly all circumstances bar a swift movement of the accelerometer which can only be a body at snap flight into the air.


  • #25
    dmigsy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,792 ✭✭✭dmigsy


    I've been looking at these vests a bit more. Looking at non-tethered under-jacket options only cos I'm vain and it's pointless buying cool looking Dainese jackets and then wearing a massive life-jacket over it. :pac:

    Alpinestars Tech-Air 5 / Dainese Smart Vest
     - Cost: €600
    - Use: Street only

    Ixon / Klim / Furygan / Held vests that use the In&Motion brain
     - Cost: The cheapest I can find the vest for €280 upfront for the vest, then either €399 upfront for the box or the subscription model of €12 per month, plus €25 per year if you want to use for track use. Over three years for street and track the total works out to be €787.
    - Use: Street & Track

    Cost wise, the In&Motion powered vests are more expensive by about 80 quid if you buy outright or cheaper to get into and a bit more expensive in the long run. The biggest reason to still go for one of these is if you are going to do a few track days a year. Not sure I definitely will do many track days but hope to do a few. Then again, you can rent Helite vests for your track day, must find out the cost of that. Decisions, decisions.

    @PCeeeee how are you finding the Tech Air 5?


  • #26
    PCeeeee
    Registered Users Posts: 1,465 ✭✭✭PCeeeee


    dmigsy wrote: »
    I've been looking at these vests a bit more. Looking at non-tethered under-jacket options only cos I'm vain and it's pointless buying cool looking Dainese jackets and then wearing a massive life-jacket over it. :pac:

    Alpinestars Tech-Air 5 / Dainese Smart Vest
     - Cost: €600
    - Use: Street only

    Ixon / Klim / Furygan / Held vests that use the In&Motion brain
     - Cost: The cheapest I can find the vest for €280 upfront for the vest, then either €399 upfront for the box or the subscription model of €12 per month, plus €25 per year if you want to use for track use. Over three years for street and track the total works out to be €787.
    - Use: Street & Track

    Cost wise, the In&Motion powered vests are more expensive by about 80 quid if you buy outright or cheaper to get into and a bit more expensive in the long run. The biggest reason to still go for one of these is if you are going to do a few track days a year. Not sure I definitely will do many track days but hope to do a few. Then again, you can rent Helite vests for your track day, must find out the cost of that. Decisions, decisions.

    @PCeeeee how are you finding the Tech Air 5?

    I'm quite happy with it. Don't even think about it now and hope I'll never put it to use.

    On the downside. The app is dire. I don't even bother connecting anymore. Which is a pity as it's cool when it works. The fit isn't totally perfect on me it's kinda tight under the arm pits but I wouldn't want the next size up, it's just the way it's cut. Also it logs working time as it's charging which is annoying for the reason I'll go into below but that's honestly as much bad as i can say about it.

    Just re. your cost comparison, you should factor in a service on the Astars one too.

    "The Routine Service has to be carried out every 2 years; however in case of a frequent usage, as commuting, after 500 hours is recommended to be carried out" quote from Astars.

    €100 and it needs to go back to them. The 500 hours will be easy racked up though as it counts charging time. Especially if you forget to take it off charge. At least this is what I think is going on as I have I have an unfeasible amout of hours logged. I must send them a mail and see if this is correct or not. On the upside once this is done it extends the guarantee.

    One comment on the In&Motion systems, there was talk that they need to be connected to GPS to fire, I couldn't find a definitive answer but that put me off them. If you're going that way I'd email them and see. Maybe it's not an issue for you but I lose GPS a lot when running, cycling etc. and it would worry me.


  • #27
    dmigsy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,792 ✭✭✭dmigsy


    PCeeeee wrote: »
    I'm quite happy with it. Don't even think about it now and hope I'll never put it to use.

    On the downside. The app is dire. I don't even bother connecting anymore. Which is a pity as it's cool when it works. The fit isn't totally perfect on me it's kinda tight under the arm pits but I wouldn't want the next size up, it's just the way it's cut. Also it logs working time as it's charging which is annoying for the reason I'll go into below but that's honestly as much bad as i can say about it.

    Just re. your cost comparison, you should factor in a service on the Astars one too.

    "The Routine Service has to be carried out every 2 years; however in case of a frequent usage, as commuting, after 500 hours is recommended to be carried out" quote from Astars.

    €100 and it needs to go back to them. The 500 hours will be easy racked up though as it counts charging time. Especially if you forget to take it off charge. At least this is what I think is going on as I have I have an unfeasible amout of hours logged. I must send them a mail and see if this is correct or not. On the upside once this is done it extends the guarantee.

    One comment on the In&Motion systems, there was talk that they need to be connected to GPS to fire, I couldn't find a definitive answer but that put me off them. If you're going that way I'd email them and see. Maybe it's not an issue for you but I lose GPS a lot when running, cycling etc. and it would worry me.

    Apparently the In&Motion doesn't need GPS to trigger but it's used for 'improved accuracy', whatever that means. I've ordered the Held eVest version anyway. Fingers crossed I never test it out.


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