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The idiots guide to DIY short breaks and last-minute powder chasing

  • 21-11-2019 11:48pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭


    Time was there used to be regular visitors to this forum who would come in and ask for tips on how to go about putting together their own ski holiday. There do not seem to be so many posters like that anymore, and I suspect judging from the number of people in ski gear you see on planes in winter a lot of people are doing these trips already. I have done a bunch of these trips over the last years and put in a lot of time researching them and thinking about them and thought I might post up my experiences here for the benefit of others.

    Hopefully this will become a sticky and other people can contribute to it, by updating flight times, by suggesting alternative hubs and destinations (I am particularly interested in the Pyrenees, Sierra Nevada in southern Spain and perhaps other destinations such as Poland and Slovenia or the Balkans) and posting their own tips and experiences.

    Pros and cons of DIY short breaks:

    For the undecided among us.

    Pros:
    • Short breaks are much more flexible for people with busy working lives or families and and involve less time away from commitments /other halves
    • you get to visit more ski resorts with two or three short breaks than you will with one annual week-long trip
    • you get greater control over your accommodation and choice of resorts and in particular are not limited to packed into a sardines type accommodation
    • you can go at the last minute when you know snow conditions are good
    • Being honest, as we get older the necessity and capacity to ski for a full week is less. When I was in my 20s I couldn't imagine skiing for less than a week. When I first started doing these trips I thought four days was the minimum that would make it worthwhile. After a while I began to notice that I was simply too tired to ski hard for four days. On a trip two years ago I had to come off the mountain halfway through my third day exhausted, and last year I went on a two-day trip which I found absolutely fine (albeit there is obviously a disproportionate investment in terms of the cost of flights and the time getting to and from Dublin to a ski resort)

    Cons:
    • The trips are definitely less value for money - I would budget approximately a grand for a four-day trip, I suspect you could probably do a week-long package trip for slightly less
    • it is definitely more stressful than a package trip, you have to put it together, make all the decisions, get from the airport to the resort etc

    Flights:

    In my view the starting point of these trips are your flights. Ideally you want a flight that allows you to get the most amount to skiing for the least amount of time off work or family commitments. What I've found is that a late afternoon or evening flight out of Dublin with a night time flight back is best as it allows for a full day's skiing on your return day.

    Some people will opt for early-morning red-eye flights but bear in mind it is always going to take you five hours to get from your house to a ski resort and no matter how early you leave you be doing well to be on the slopes in the afternoon, particularly if you have to rent gear. One year I went with mates who went on a redeye flight with a view to getting an extra half day skiing and paid for there lift passes and gear in advance. I rocked out on the afternoon flight to find that, it being France, the shops they had paid for the passes and gear had closed for the afternoon and they couldn't actually collect them!

    Personally I hate red eyes, they just aren't a holiday, although going from work to arriving at a ski resort after midnight, with a long drive in between having worked that day, can also be tiring.

    Best airports for short breaks:

    Having looked at and flown to a whole bunch of places over the years in my view the best hubs for these trips are Munich and the "Milan area" airports.

    Munich:

    Munich is served by multiple flights daily operated by Ryanair, Aer Lingus and Lufthansa. While there are some morning flights for those who want them them each of these airlines do a daily flight at about 16:30 to 17:30, which people living in Dublin can get without taking much time off work. They then fly back between 20.00 and 21.30, which allows for a full day skiing on the way back. I have ridden the last left up in resorts and still been back in Munich airport in time to have dinner before going in to the departures area. There are a bunch of ski resorts within three hours of the airport and some a little over two hours. In addition there is also a good train service and it is at least in theory possible to get to resorts by the train, albeit I think it is unlikely you can maximise your ski time as you would with car or transfer.

    Milan:

    The Milan area airports constitute three airports, Malpensa, Linate and Bergamo. Between the three of them they are served daily and sometimes twice daily by Aer Lingus and Ryanair. Again most of the flights leave Dublin in the early evening and leave Milan in the late evening, at times very similar to the Munich flights, allowing for most of your final day to be spent on the slopes. There are also a bunch of resorts accessible from these airports however they are a little bit further than those from Munich and probably involve an extra hours driving, depending on which airport you go to. Consider the Aosta valley resorts (Courmayeur, Cervinia, Pila, Champoluc, all about 2 - 3.5 hours depending on which airport and which resort).

    The airports are listed above in order of their proximity to the Aosta resorts, with each one about 20 minutes further away than the next (i.e., Malpensa is 20 minutes closer than Linate, which is 20 minutes closer than Bergamo). If you are going to the Dolomites the reverse is true. Flights to Bergamo tend to be the cheapest. The only other thing I've noticed about these airports is that occasionally you can get a totally sold out flight or very expensive one next to very cheap ones, which I assume is due to a large group booking or school tour or something.

    There are also some resorts in different directions from these barely known in the UK or Ireland like Madesimo or the resorts in the Piedemont. I've you're willing to do a longer transfer (3 and a half to four hours) you can access the Dolomites, which are stunningly beautiful to ski in. There are also a bunch of small resorts much more local to these airports which I've never been to but they are relatively low and I imagine they offer simple but rustically attractive skiing.

    Because of the shorter transfer times, higher number of flights and also because cars rented in Germany during winter have winter tyres as standard (rarely available without significant extra cost in Italy), in my view Munich is the better choice. However, it has to be said that skiing in Italy is refreshingly charming compared to France or to a lesser extent Austria (although this is a personal opinion).

    Other options:

    Geneva:

    There are other options for airports. By far the most obvious and easiest one to ski from is Geneva since there are a whole bunch of resorts within approximately an hour and a half from Geneva (Avoriaz, Megeve, La Clusaz, Chamonix, Flaine). However, there are fewer evening time flights to and from Geneva. What this means is that you will either have to overnight in a Swiss city (prohibitive, and involves spending money in Switzerland, which I just resent) or get a very early transfer departure out of whatever French resorts you are skiing in. This means red eye and one less day's skiing. The exception to this as Madness points out is if you are flying back on a weekend. There is a 4 o'clock flight back on a Saturday and a 2 o'clock flight back on the Sunday. This avoids a red eye back and the Saturday flight would allow a few hours skiing.

    Nonetheless, Geneva is the by far the best option for a short transfer time and is the only one that I have actually managed to ski on the day I landed in (this can probably be done off the morning Munich flight). You get Winter tyres as standard provided you rent in the swiss side of the airport. There are also very good and cheap transfer options to the main resorts.

    Zurich:

    Another good option is Zurich because the flight times are similar to Munich. You also get Winter tyres as standard. Zurich is probably the best option for St Anton or Ischgl and I think is close to Verbier also. However, it involves spending money in Switzerland and the flights or car hire are never as cheap as Munich or Milan. There are also less flight options - I think Aer Lingus are the only ones to offer it direct. It does offer train options, including St Anton (difficult to do off the evening Aer Lingus flight) and I think you can get to Verbier by train.

    Occasional flight airports:

    There are also a number of other airports which would be better if they had more regular flights, such as Salzburg, Turin, Verona, Venice, Grenoble and Lyon. I am open to correction on any of these airports but they either only have one flight per week or maybe only two and therefore do not work as well for short trips as the ones mentioned above. Some of them have advantages in terms of being closer to certain areas (for instance the Dolomites which are stunningly beautiful to ski are perhaps four hours from Milan are very close to Verona and reasonably close to Venice. Also many of these airports only operate a regular schedule during summer.

    Finally, airports such as Innsbruck or Bolzano are obviously closest to a bunch of resorts but to my knowledge are only served by charters (if anyone has further info on these options please post it).

    It should be noted that skyscanner is an excellent resource for filtering flights by the time you want them to leave the given airport at and can sometimes make a trip possible that otherwise wouldn't be. Lufthansa for instance can get you to a whole variety of airports via connections from Frankfurt which may make a trip which might otherwise papers seem not doable possible.

    Transfer:

    This will be controversial but in my view by far the best option is to rent a car and drive yourself. Some airports, particularly Geneva, offer very cheap and regular transfers to ski resorts. However, most seem to be quite expensive amounting to a couple of hundred euro each way between the group. Cars can be rented for next to nothing during winter in Europe. I have done multiple trips getting cars for six euro a day in Italy and not considerably more in Austria.

    I can understand why people are reluctant to drive to ski resorts but it is a lot easier than people might think. First of all, it rarely actually snows during your journey. Secondly, these countries are used to dealing with the snow and will have snowploughs running throughout any period of heavy snowfall. They need to keep resorts open in order for the resorts to be viable. Many resorts are on or just off trans alpine artery routes that need to be kept open. It is rare that a resort road is closed and even then it is usually due to avalanche risk above as opposed to the conditions on the actual road.

    It should also be borne in mind that while people have a perception of tricky mountain hairpin roads, in practice a lot of resorts, particularly in Austria, do not feature these approaches. Mostly the ski resorts are at about 1000 m not far off major Alpine arteries which have motorways or good European roads through them. Occasional French resorts will be higher but even at that it is usually only the last half hour of the drive which is an difficult roads. If you have winter tyres it is fine to drive in anything but the deepest of snow.

    In fairness, if you do not have winter tyres and it is snowing heavily I have never put on snow chains and personally I would not like to have to. What they do say in this situation is that you should practice doing this before you actually need to do as the side of the road in heavy snow with numb fingers is not the time, albeit I do not think it is realistic from many people in Ireland to practice this, or for people on a ski trip to take 20 minutes before they leave an airport to practice. Fundamentally, forecasts are very good now and you should know in advance if there is going to be snow and take appropriate steps. If you don't have winter tyres you have to pull in in the designated areas and put on the chains. Ensure the chains are in the boot before leaving the airport.

    Having a car also gives you a huge amount of flexibility, it may free you up from the ski bus system and it may also allow you to visit neighbouring resorts which may be included on your lift pass anyway. All in all it makes for a better trip, although it has to be said, you are a bit tied up both in terms of inability to drink and also stress.

    Car rental tips:

    Use broker websites such as Expedia and economycarrentals, they are much cheaper. Bear in mind that all these car rental companies operate on the same basis. They get you in with a cheap car. They then try and get more money out of you by offering you an unnecessary upgrade, or scaring you about the excess levels on your insurance policy or the charge for collecting your car from another country if you break down. You don't need any of this crap. Buy an annual excess insurance in Ireland for 50 euro which will cover you for the excess on all your holidays in a year so you have piece of mind.

    Also bear in mind that in Austria you need to buy a carnet at the border as road tax, it costs about a tenner and is sold in petrol stations either side.

    Its also worth knowing that if you are flying in or out of a different airport it rarely costs much more to rent from one airport and drop off to another, which is particularly useful in Milan as there can be significant variations in cost of the flights to given airports on a given day.

    Get a bigger car than you think you'll need as your mate will inevitably arrive with an extra bag. Also if you do drive with skis the bigger the better and an estate is ideal.

    Another thing to bear in mind is that GPS sometimes sends you over mountain passes instead of on the main roads and some of those passes aren't open in Summer. Who said renting a car was the best idea??

    Alternatives to car rental:

    I would welcome anyone's suggestions on resorts that you can reach by public transport. St Anton has a train station right in the town and I managed to do it once from Zurich, but the evening Dublin flight is just a bit tight to catch it. I know the Zillertal resorts are served by train also but again I don't know how viable it is to do the evening flight and get in a day's skiing on the way back.

    Further if anyone has better and cheaper suggestions for private transfer please post them.

    Accommodation:

    In the world of booking this kind of thing is a lot easier. Do note that if you are looking for accommodation a long time in advance you will often find very few options because most accommodation providers in the resorts will hold out for a full week's booking. However, if you simply wait until a couple of days before you are going, and once you have passed the Saturday or Sunday turnover day and the accommodation realises that it cannot get a week-long booking, you should get many more options. The resorts websites themselves also usually operate a service where you put in your details and you will get personalised offers sent you over a 24-hour period which I found very good in the past and includes a whole amount of accommodation you will not find on booking or elsewhere. While our instincts are to book in advance and worry if we haven't you always get somewhere and if you have a car you can always stay in one of the satellite towns to the resort you've targeted. I've booked a hotel while driving to Dublin airport. If you've any concerns go on booking any random evening during the season and see what comes up for that or the next night. Assuming its not half term or New Years you'll probably get loads of options.

    When I go on these trips I like to get a break from work and family life and have often tried to find a good hotel in consequence. Unfortunately, I am usually disappointed and on balance I think you may be better off getting a bog standard B&B where you know what it will be like near the centre of town which allows you to eat well and access swimming pool facilities etc in better hotels at a fraction of the price.

    Luggage:

    This is probably worth considering as between the extra stress of a short trip , the haemoraging of cash skiing and the extra hassle of having to go to the carousel its worth knowing what's best in advance.

    I used to be able to get everything I need, including ski boots (stuffed with t-shirts, socks etc), into a cabin bag which would come in about 10kg if anyone ever weighed it. However, Ryanair in particular have now changed their policy on this and are likely to screw you if you turn up at the gate with one of these bags. They also used to do a 10kg check in bag for 10 or 15 euro but I think that limit has also changed. I will know more about this this season but from flying a few weeks ago I think the best value may be to pay for priority boarding and you get a 10kg carry on bag, if not two, included. If you pay for the bag to be checked in they seem to have reduced the weight to 8kgs, which is more than ski boots and gear, and as you have to tag and drop you will get screwed for the extra weight. Lufthansa's cabin bag policy is smaller but isn't big enough for ski gear. I'm not sure how vigorously they enforce it. I also don't know the up to date position on Aer Lingus. If anyone has any thoughts on this please post.

    Cost:

    A quick note on cost estimates:-

    flights - about €200. Have gotten them for less than €80 even booked the night before, have rarely paid more than about €275. Paddy's weekend is the exception and is always expensive

    car rental - €100 between the group including tolls petrol, carnet

    accomodation - €100 per night per head BnB (can be done for €50 or even less at times)

    ski pass - €50 per day

    Ski gear - €30 per day
    _______________________________________________________________

    Ok, so hopefully that helps someone and hopefully other people build on it. I had meant to post about last minute powder chasing and will in due course as it was this that made me do these trips in the first place.

    In the meantime - there's feck loads of snow in Europe, Solden, Obergurgl, Hintertux and Cervinia all seem to be offering a decent amount of skiing. Lets get moving people! Get busy before the next bust, it is just around the corner!!


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,773 ✭✭✭maddness


    Great post a148pro!

    I also do a couple of short beaks per season and have probably done over 20 at this stage.
    Unlike you I tend to do the red eye flights and ski the first day. Most times you can get a good three hours on the slopes which is a great start to the few days. The only issue here is that if you are delayed it’s going to impact this.
    I’ve managed a half day from Geneva to The Three Valleys, Val d’Isere, Morzine, La Thuile and even Cervinia.
    From Milan Bergamo it’s only jus over two hours to Champoluc so it another good option.
    I’ve only ever skied Austria twice so have little knowledge of short trips there so would some more examples if you have them?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭a148pro


    madness - do you not ski on the day you come back then? Had a quick look at skyscanner there and it seems the latest direct flight is about 10 AM back from Geneva, though you can fly via Frankfurt and get the guts of a day's skiing in

    Re Munich options there's loads. This website is handy - it allows you to search by distance from given airports:

    https://www.j2ski.com/ski_resorts/Airports/Munich.html

    It suggests under 2 hours to the Zillertal resorts (Kaltenbach, Mayrhofen, Zillertal Arena, Hintertux), having driven that a few times I'd say its optimistic, but not much more than 2 hours. That valley has about 600k of pistes over the various resorts and Hintertux has a glacier and is open year round so is a pretty good target.

    Otherwise St Anton and Ischgl are probably about 3 hours, and Solden and Obergurgl similar, Zell am See, Saalbach and Kaprun similar.

    There are rakes of other resorts we've never heard of too, going to try and do more unknown resort skiing. Last year went to Solden, notwithstanding being totally addicted to skiing and reading about skiing I'd never even heard of it and it was class. In fact I meant to add it to the trip reports.

    Champoluc is big on my hit list too, been in a few of those Aosta resorts but never there

    I have a dream of taking 6 weeks off and touring the North American resorts in a camper, but you could have a superb couple of weeks in Europe too. Aosta seems to have about 6 resorts.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,773 ✭✭✭maddness


    The Geneva flight only works if your fly back at the weekend as there are later flights back.
    I’ve skied Mayrhofen, St Anton and will be going to Zell Am See this winter but am trying to think of another short Friday to Sunday trip to Austria.
    Champoluc is awesome, it’s always quiet and there may be less runs than a lot of resorts they are mostly very long pistes. It gives you a great sense of traveling from one point to another rather than just up and down. They do a ski fro free in December and January too, we get free ski passes with our accommodation!
    Where have you gone or can recommend for a Friday to Sunday trip?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭a148pro


    maddness wrote: »
    The Geneva flight only works if your fly back at the weekend as there are later flights back.

    Where have you gone or can recommend for a Friday to Sunday trip?

    Aha! That changes things, I reckon the Saturday flight would definitely allow 3 hours skiing on the way back? Updated above to reflect that. That really ups Geneva as a smash and grab destination as it is so close to the slopes with a couple of resorts genuinely an hour from the airport. I think I need to update the above so!

    Re Munich, I think I've done more or less the same trips as you. Zell am See this year will give you access to Saalbach and Kaprun either side of it. There's now a skiing link to Saalback actually. The other resorts apart from Mayrhofen in Zillertal are worth a look. I still haven't made it to Zillertal Arena there.

    So I suppose the only other one I've done is Solden and Obergurgl, which I was really impressed with. As both are high and Solden has glaciers they are great early or late season options. I think both are open now for instance, and I suspect I'll be headed back there at Easter again and again. Primary advantages of Solden are:-
    • pretty good apres ski (quite a lot of young German skiers)
    • relatively few English speaking skiers (if that matters to you)
    • excellent early and late season skiing on the glaciers
    • reasonably big resort with varied skiing, more pistes in Obergurl 15 mins up road
    • very good off piste potential with a guide as there are huge sides of the mountains without pistes
    • absolutely superb wellness resort 15 minutes drive down the valley
    Its only downside is it isn't a very charming resort. Obergurl is however, with a collection of Brexit voting English financier types and old school European wealth types and everything that brings with it.

    Another option is Alpbach or any of the Ski Welt resorts which seem to be under 2 hours from Munich Airport. They're lower but in a good snow year could be great, though I've never been.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭Donie75


    I have organised 4 night trips to Austria for a group of lads for the last 7 or 8 years. 7am flights to Munich with Aer Lingus on a Friday morning. 8pm flight home on a Tuesday night was the regular return but Aer Lingus have started messing round with their schedule so it only runs certain nights. So Ryanair are now doing a 9:45pm flight home. This works better as we will be able to ski until 2-3pm on the last day.
    We do 4 nights in Mayrhofen usually. We did Soll and Kirchberg also but it's very hard to beat Mayrhofen when you add in the neighbouring resorts of Zell Am Ziller and Kaltenback. Then we usually ski Tuesday morning until 1pm and do the last few runs that we have missed in Mayrhofen.
    We usually arrive in Munich at 10:30am and we are in the resort around 1-1:30pm. Straight up the mountain and ski for 2-3 hours. It's a great way to break in the legs. Then we do three full days skiing, usually a full day in Mayrhofen, Kaltenback and Zell Am Ziller. We get two taxis/minibuses rather than public transport as it brings you right to the lift and it's cheap when there's 12-14 people. We usually do apres ski in the Zell and Kaltenback to mix things up a bit. The home run in Kaltenback is usually very busy and rerally narrow with heavy grainy snow so it can be a tough ski home.
    Adding the travel to neighbouring resorts really makes it a fantastic spot for a long weekend. Must get up to the Hintertux Glacier this year.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭a148pro


    Yeah its a great valley, and I still haven't been to the Arena area. Made it to Hintertux this year and it was better than I thought, and in a bad snow year will have as good conditions as anywhere. You're not taking enough of a chance on the last run by the way - I did the last lift in Hintertux which is about half an hour further up the road and skied back to resort to car to the airport!


  • Registered Users Posts: 915 ✭✭✭Bloody Nipples


    Went to Mayrhofen this year and got to Hintertux, Penken, Ahorn, Zillertal Arena and Hochzillertal. Absolutely awesome spot, getting the train and bus up and down the valley was cool and Zillertal Arena seems to go on forever.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭a148pro


    Have never been to hochzillertal either. Is it different to arena? I remember seeing a lift somewhere on the left as you drive in, not sure which one it is. There's also a fairly cool resort other the other side of kaltenbach called hochfugen.

    Could you viably ski between them using the train, ie, is it just a short walk from the train stations to the lifts?


  • Registered Users Posts: 915 ✭✭✭Bloody Nipples


    a148pro wrote: »
    Have never been to hochzillertal either. Is it different to arena? I remember seeing a lift somewhere on the left as you drive in, not sure which one it is. There's also a fairly cool resort other the other side of kaltenbach called hochfugen.

    Could you viably ski between them using the train, ie, is it just a short walk from the train stations to the lifts?

    My impressions of Zillertal Arena was that it was longer and narrower so it felt like making an out and back trip when trying to hit all the slopes but with Hochzillertal all the lifts and slopes run parallel to each other with 1 long blue run that runs perpendicular along the bottom of the rest of the slopes and lifts to link them all together. However looking at Google maps it looks like hochfugen and Hochzillertal are linked, I don't think I knew hochfugen existed when I was there so think I missed a trick!

    You can ski between them alright, Zillertal Arena is a bit of a trek from the train station but there's a very regular ski bus between the lift and the station. Hochzillertal is walking distance (10 mins?) from the Kaltenbach station to the lift. You can also ski down into Aschau from Hochzillertal on blue or black ski routes and get a ski bus back to Kaltenbach.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭a148pro


    Maybe Hochzillertal is Kaltenbach? Hochfugen definitely worth a look, though you may have skied over to it without realizing it. Good off piste bowls and its kind of cute or something compared to Kaltenbach. Very nice restaurant on the way over to it and also a very nice restaurant in Kaltenbach, can't remember the name of it but its famous.

    In terms of a similar set up with a lot of resorts on the one lift pass, Zell am See is on same pass as Kaprun, Saalbach Hinterglemm and Fieberbrunn. I think you can now ski from Zell to Saalbach and from there to Fieber, not sure its viable in one day. Going this year with the kids so might get to find out. Kaprun is also snowsure with glacier so similar set up to Hintertux.

    That valley therefore a good option for Munich, though prob half hour further drive. Solden and Obergurgl very good options, but prob another 30 mins further again.

    None of these offer 3vs level of interconnectivity. What about skiwelt for that? I've never been, can you ski between them?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 915 ✭✭✭Bloody Nipples


    Yeah Hochzillertal is the ski area at Kaltenbach.

    They're building a connection from Zell to Saalbach, think this is the first year it's workable with lift and ski bus but think they're planning on having it fully lift connected by 2023. I've never done ski circus as it's kind of pricey, so it'd be great to be able to stay in Zell and get into ski circus easily.

    I'm going to skiwelt for the first time this year (Söll) and it looks like there's good connectivity there between skiwelt and the Kitz ski area.

    In terms of the original topic of the thread, for a short break away and easy transfers, I went to Romania last year and hired a car (€80 for 4 days) and going to Bulgaria this year and got transfers, ski hire and lift pass in a single package ( transfers were €50 for 2 people).

    This seems ok but if I wanted to hit the slopes in an Austrian/French/Italian resort for a short DIY package I'd like to get there by rail/bus to try and cut costs. Zell am See is really well connected by train and Mayrhofen is connected to Jenbach by the Zillerbahn and Jenbach is easy to get to from Munich.

    But are their other resorts out there that are:
    1. Near an airport with regular flights from Cork/Dublin
    2. On a public transport route from that airport

    Car hire gets expensive in the more top rate ski nations so I'd avoid it if possible!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭Donie75


    The famous restaurant in Kaltenback is the Wedel Hutte. Great mountain restaurant, excellent food and they have lifts down to the toilets.

    A148pro, the lift you saw on the left on the way to Mayrhofen is Zell Am Ziller. It brings you up to a nice area with loads of reds but if you continue up over the mountain and head towards Gerlos it's a great ski area. We did a fantastic day skiing before where we skied from Zell Am Ziller right over to Konigsleiten and back to Gerlos where we did Apres Ski in a cool little log cabin in the town centre and got buses back to Mayrhofen. It was a good spin back down a windy road but good to see different areas.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭a148pro


    That sounds class and despite two trips to the valley I haven't even seen either of those resorts. I'm pretty much done with Mayrhofen but would give Kaltenback and Hochfugen another day and with these in the bag too it would still be a viable 3 dayer, thanks. I assume as its off the beaten track a bit its a different atmosphere to Mayrhofen?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭a148pro



    But are their other resorts out there that are:
    1. Near an airport with regular flights from Cork/Dublin
    2. On a public transport route from that airport

    Car hire gets expensive in the more top rate ski nations so I'd avoid it if possible!

    Maybe its because I usually go off season but I always get cheap car rental. Maybe its worse at half term or Christmas.

    So the train ones I know of are:-

    St Anton ex Zurich - as discussed I think the last train in the evening is just too tight for the Aer Lingus flight in but someone might manage it

    Andermatt ex Zurich
    Engelberg ex Zurich

    Haven't done either of those but just came across it by chance online the other night. In fact both are also very short drives from Zurich so I think I may have to tone down the anti Swiss rhetoric above and back Zurich as a viable destination.

    There are also a few interesting overnight options:-

    Paris - Bourg St Maurice - one of the mods here used to say she's get a Paris flight, get night train down to the alps, ski from first thing in the morning and save a nights hotel cost

    London - Bourg St Maurice (I think) - there is an overnight Saturday train direct from London to the Alps which might make an interesting (and low carbon!) trip

    Brussels - a mate texted me a link to seasonal trains to the Alps starting up

    In fairness, if you walk around a major European train station at the weekend it isn't unusual to see lads with skis, so there must be endless options that wouldn't occur to us


  • Registered Users Posts: 198 ✭✭Granite Head


    a148pro wrote: »
    car rental - €100 between the group including tolls petrol, carnet

    Very useful post - thanks. It has prompted me to attempt a family DIY trip over the Paddy's Weekend. Flying into Munich with Mayrhofen the current favoured destination - kids are familiar with layout / restaurants etc.

    I am tempted to drive with cost and time considerations in mind but....

    1) How easy is it to pick up and drop off a car at Munich airport - how much time is required?
    2) Is there a garage close / in Munich airport to fuel up?
    3) Never noticed tolls on the roads (presumably transfers have had electronic tags) - just wondering how tolls work with a rental car? Is there a payment option at the toll? How many tolls would you come through going to and from Mayrhofen - Munich?
    4) What is a carnet? Which side of the border are you meant to purchase it?

    Thanks in advance

    2024 Gigs and Events: Jarlath Regan, Depeche Mode, Roisin Murphy, Pip Blom, Nouvelle Vogue, Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark, Murder Capital, Pixies, The Stranglers, Liam Gallagher & John Squires, The Jesus & Mary Chain, DJ Shadow, Cam Cole, Fight Like Apes, The Hives, Somebody's Child, Sprints, Bob Log lll, Jimmy Carr, Richard Hawley, Beyond The Pale, LCD Sound System, Patti Smith, Night & Day Festival, Suede/Manic Street Preachers, The Beat, All Together Now, Electric Picnic, Bonny Prince Billy, Phospherescant, Ride, Dirt Birds, Tommy Tiernan, The Last Dinner Party, John Grant, Iron & Wine, Therapy, Nick Cave, Peter Hook & The Light, Idles, Khruangbin, Lightning Seeds, Amble



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,679 Mod ✭✭✭✭Rew


    1) How easy is it to pick up and drop off a car at Munich airport - how much time is required?
    2) Is there a garage close / in Munich airport to fuel up?
    3) Never noticed tolls on the roads (presumably transfers have had electronic tags) - just wondering how tolls work with a rental car? Is there a payment option at the toll? How many tolls would you come through going to and from Mayrhofen - Munich?
    4) What is a carnet? Which side of the border are you meant to purchase it?

    Thanks in advance

    1) very easy last time i did it, you drive in and they just tell you to stop and give them the keys and off you go
    2) yes
    3) Its toll gates, you get a card at the first gate and you pay at the next one, I use credit card generally
    4) vignette - you can buy them in the service stations before you cross the border


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭Donie75


    Spotted this new Youtube Channel called Piste View and they have a few great videos of the runs in Gerlos and Zell Am Ziller.
    21-21a is one of my favourite runs.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOUeN0NUVcU&list=PL-v7JT8YD85AzHT5jInjKhV17m7cjPntt


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,295 ✭✭✭ckeego


    Hi all.
    Some great posts and info here-many thanks OP.

    Off to Munich in March and having been in Mayrhofen a number of times before, was keen to try somewhere different.

    A few lads coming..mixed abilities from beginner to good intermediate, but started looking at resorts inside 2 hrs from Munich to maximize our time on the slopes- half day on arrival and departure too hopefully.

    With that in mind, Kitzbuhel came up as an option- thoughts in comparison to Mayrhofen....

    Thing is, the snow has always be brilliant in Mayrhofen.....


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭Donie75


    It's hard to beat Mayrhofen really, especially when you include the neighbouring resorts. I thought Kitzbuhel was very expensive when we visited from Soll on a day trip a few years ago. The beer was expensive and there wasn't much craic. Lots of fancy restaurants and hotels.
    The last run into Kitz was very rough and unpisted. We all had difficulty on it. Otherwise it's a nice resort.
    Saalbach would be worth trying if you can find accommodation. A lot of places only offer a full week.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,295 ✭✭✭ckeego


    Donie75 wrote: »
    It's hard to beat Mayrhofen really, especially when you include the neighbouring resorts. I thought Kitzbuhel was very expensive when we visited from Soll on a day trip a few years ago. The beer was expensive and there wasn't much craic. Lots of fancy restaurants and hotels.
    The last run into Kitz was very rough and unpisted. We all had difficulty on it. Otherwise it's a nice resort.
    Saalbach would be worth trying if you can find accommodation. A lot of places only offer a full week.
    Maybe that’s why there is plenty of accommodation available in Kitz...

    I’ve always loved Mayrhofen and I always find that knowing the “lay of the land” can take up to a couple if days and more in a resort that’s not known to you.

    Les 2 Alpes was a favourite for years but has become very expensive in all regards.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭a148pro


    Very useful post - thanks. It has prompted me to attempt a family DIY trip over the Paddy's Weekend. Flying into Munich with Mayrhofen the current favoured destination - kids are familiar with layout / restaurants etc.

    I am tempted to drive with cost and time considerations in mind but....

    1) How easy is it to pick up and drop off a car at Munich airport - how much time is required?
    2) Is there a garage close / in Munich airport to fuel up?
    3) Never noticed tolls on the roads (presumably transfers have had electronic tags) - just wondering how tolls work with a rental car? Is there a payment option at the toll? How many tolls would you come through going to and from Mayrhofen - Munich?
    4) What is a carnet? Which side of the border are you meant to purchase it?

    Thanks in advance

    You're in look, having done this twice in the last ten days (:pac:)

    1 - pick up is easy enough, desks are in the airport and well sign posted, maybe 5 - 10 minute walk from exit. The only bit to note is that you have to get a particular lift to a particular carpark to find the car and they are always a bit blasse telling you this. They write it in short hand on the ticket they give you to get out of parking lot but just run it by them. If you've kids hanging out of you there is a McDonalds just outside from the rental place so you could send them there while you find car.

    Drop off very easy as Rew says, its well signposted from the way into the airport, just follow sings for car rental return regardless of what terminal you're in and you're led into a car park, all cars park as they arrive and there are staff from all the car rentals there who will come and check the car as you unpack.

    2 - yes, again, its well signposted as you come into the airport with petrol signs or "Tankstelle" sign, you take a left and loop back around past a Novotel, then come back in the way you came to get to drop off.

    3 - unless me and Rew took different routes, there are no tolls on the route at all, either in Austria or Germany. (there definitely aren't on Munich - Saalbach I've done Zillertal before and don't think there were but can't remember so maybe Rew is right). Instead you are supposed to buy a carnet / Vignette when you go into Austria. There are no signs indicating the border, if you watch carefully you may see pull in areas for customs but otherwise you wouldn't notice it. Just pull into a petrol station once you're in Austria and buy a ten day pass for around a tenner. Once you're turning off main road to go to the ski resort you're probably in Austria. I have been done for not having the pass previously (or maybe it was for not stopping, I can't remember, either way I paid - don't mess with these efficient Europeans!)

    4 - see above

    FYI I was on family short break this time and have views on it now, will update a previous short break post in due course - for present purposes bear in mind that having arrived Thursday I was unable to get my beginner kids into ski school on Friday (as its end of week gala race / photo day) and there was no ski school Saturday. This was in Hinterglemm so if that's part of your plans make sure that isn't the case in Mayrhofen.

    Also note the below post re advice on self drive


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭a148pro


    Somethings worth noting from recent experience:-

    1 - always ask in your hotel if there is some reason traffic might be worse than normal on your return date. There is often extra traffic from day trippers or weekend trippers on a Sunday, or on general transfer date. This year hotel warned me that the Monday was a bank holiday in Southern Germany. If they hadn't I would have missed flight as there was traffic literally from the resort to Munich and journey took twice as long. This is an unusual occurrence and shouldn't prevent people renting, just bear it in mind.

    2 - recent trips haven't involved the "extra insurance" or "upgrade" plays, but a new one involving some operators charging a 6 euro per day fee for leaving the country. I doubt this is legal in EU terms so I suspect you are more than entitled to tell them you're not leaving the country and are skiing in Garmisch.

    3 - please bear in mind that drivers on the Autobahn will go by in the fast lane at insane speeds. The roads are excellent and three to four lanes but make sure you are clear before going into fast lane and only go in to overtake.

    I still recommend self driving despite above! Cheaper, gives you flexibility to visit other resorts etc..


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭a148pro


    ckeego wrote: »
    Hi all.
    Some great posts and info here-many thanks OP.

    Off to Munich in March and having been in Mayrhofen a number of times before, was keen to try somewhere different.

    A few lads coming..mixed abilities from beginner to good intermediate, but started looking at resorts inside 2 hrs from Munich to maximize our time on the slopes- half day on arrival and departure too hopefully.

    With that in mind, Kitzbuhel came up as an option- thoughts in comparison to Mayrhofen....

    Thing is, the snow has always be brilliant in Mayrhofen.....

    Saalbach is 2 hours 40 from Munich. Fieberbrunn is on the same lift pass and only 2 hours but its quiet and I wouldn't recommend it. The ski welt resorts I think are 2 hours or less, but I've never been, St Johann in Tirol is also passed on the way but again I've never been, or Kitzbuhl either.

    Do bear in mind there's a good few other resorts in the same valley as Mayrhofen, Zell am Ziller, Kaltenbach, Hochfugen. I wouldn't stay in Kaltenbach, its quiet, but someone here suggested Gerlos recently which is another one.

    You could stay in one of the others and do a day in Mayrhofen if you missed it.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,679 Mod ✭✭✭✭Rew


    a148pro wrote: »
    Somethings worth noting from recent experience:-

    3 - please bear in mind that drivers on the Autobahn will go by in the fast lane at insane speeds. The roads are excellent and three to four lanes but make sure you are clear before going into fast lane and only go in to overtake.

    Also don't speed the germans have a pretty permanent set of unmarked cars on that stretch to Austria.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,679 Mod ✭✭✭✭Rew


    a148pro wrote: »
    3 - unless me and Rew took different routes, there are no tolls on the route at all, either in Austria or Germany.
    I could easily be mixing it up with France been a while since I drove in Germany
    Instead you are supposed to buy a carnet / Vignette when you go into Austria. There are no signs indicating the border, if you watch carefully you may see pull in areas for customs but otherwise you wouldn't notice it. Just pull into a petrol station once you're in Austria and buy a ten day pass for around a tenner.

    We got it on the German no problem side FYI


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭a148pro


    France they toll you incessantly. There's tolls for the Arlberg tunnel so they definitely do them in Austria so I may be wrong about Mayrhofen.

    I could not believe the speed of some of the cars in the fast lane. Last time, maybe it was because the traffic finally ended, I was doing 130 kph in the slow lane, over the Irish limit, and there were lads in the fast lane absolutely tearing by, 200kph plus maybe more. Say 150mph in old money.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,679 Mod ✭✭✭✭Rew


    a148pro wrote: »
    France they toll you incessantly. There's tolls for the Arlberg tunnel so they definitely do them in Austria so I may be wrong about Mayrhofen.

    I could not believe the speed of some of the cars in the fast lane. Last time, maybe it was because the traffic finally ended, I was doing 130 kph in the slow lane, over the Irish limit, and there were lads in the fast lane absolutely tearing by, 200kph plus maybe more. Say 150mph in old money.

    In my “youth” I rented a 3 Series and drove it from Frankfurt to Saarbrucken. Def topped out the engine at times and there were Audi and BMW estates hammering by me. I also attempted to enter an autobahn via the exit ramp. I def don’t recommend any of that anyone, ever...


  • Registered Users Posts: 135 ✭✭fulldnod


    how long does it take on average for people to get there rental cars, i have seen savage queues over the years in various airports, even during a mid week in MUC


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭a148pro


    Last few times for me anyway I was served immediately. I do remember being delayed one time and it pissed me off as it was late but it hasn't happened me for a while. These are Germans after all.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭lbj666


    I have been reading up on the night trains and the Nightjet is worth looking at.
    There is one that stops at Frankfurt airport at 00.05 and goes straight to Kufstein, Worgl and Jenbach.

    Arrives at Jenbach at 9 which is at the bottom of the zillertalbahn . So if you had yer gear, had a plan of action you could be on the slopes in the zillertal valley somewhere by 10.30am.

    Only problem is its the way back is 21:00 which gets ya to Frankfurt airport at 4.45am.

    The map is here and the trains don't run everyday so check the timetable. But theres bound to be other options. A lot of things need to align to make it work but worth looking at.

    https://www.nightjet.com/en/dam/jcr:6a8041cb-0131-4ad3-84fd-25154548e5dd/nightjet-streckennetz-2020.pdf


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