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The BDO Discussion Thread

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    #62
    ThebitterLemon
    Registered Users Posts: 6,621 ✭✭✭ThebitterLemon


    Kingp35 wrote: »
    The first big tournament to come out and say they are no longer going to carry BDO points and are thus not BDO ranked is the Dutch Open. The first of many I reckon.

    https://www.dutchopendarts.nl/en/event/dutch-open-darts-no-longer-a-bdo-ranking-event/

    Grim reaper is circling.

    If I was a betting man I’d say their World Champs will be cancelled with Des blaming nefarious forces and crying about anti BDO bias

    TbL


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    #63
    Kingp35
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,246 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kingp35


    ThebitterLemon wrote: »
    Grim reaper is circling.

    If I was a betting man I’d say they’re World Champs will be cancelled with Des blaming nefarious forces and crying about anti BDO bias

    TbL

    Another big tournament gone, the house is crumbling down.

    https://www.facebook.com/503554549989578/photos/a.503753236636376/1028280680850293/?type=3&theater


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    #64
    ThebitterLemon
    Registered Users Posts: 6,621 ✭✭✭ThebitterLemon


    Kingp35 wrote: »
    Another big tournament gone, the house is crumbling down.

    https://www.facebook.com/503554549989578/photos/a.503753236636376/1028280680850293/?type=3&theater

    It’ll be a sad day when it does happen, I grew up watching some legendary BDO players. It’s a shambles today and is probably even doing a disservice to the current guys still playing

    TbL


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    #65
    sc86
    Registered Users Posts: 2,878 ✭✭✭sc86


    Youd have to wonder about iq levels in bdo , des himself , the people that actually voted for him , the players , cant be the smartest bunch.
    Theres local gaa clubs ran better


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    #66
    Justin Credible Darts
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Justin Credible Darts


    sc86 wrote: »
    Youd have to wonder about iq levels in bdo , des himself , the people that actually voted for him , the players , cant be the smartest bunch.
    Theres local gaa clubs ran better






    have said this for over a decade about the bdo mushroom, the thickest people on the planet.


    all covered in a certain blog I dare not mention for fear of people crying


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    #67
    Petyr Baelish
    Registered Users Posts: 264 ✭✭Petyr Baelish


    Justin Credible Darts wrote: »
    have said this for over a decade about the bdo mushroom, the thickest people on the planet.


    all covered in a certain blog I dare not mention for fear of people crying

    The excellent Knob of the Week of course.

    When the BDO do cease to exist as a supposed professional organisation you're gonna be a bit stuck for candidates.


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    #68
    Justin Credible Darts
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Justin Credible Darts


    Petyr Baelish wrote: »
    The excellent Knob of the Week of course.

    When the BDO do cease to exist as a supposed professional organisation you're gonna be a bit stuck for candidates.




    The bdo wont die.


    Yes its done in terms of calling itself a "world pro" which was a joke them calling the comp that.
    The cannot spin out that nonsense of being the official world title any longer, despite the rest of the world knowing which is the real World title in the PDC.


    They will continue to run county most likely, look after the grassroots and minor opens, but the days of the bdo fans thinking it was something more than the joke we all saw it are gone.


    As for future candidates, there will still be the WDF who are just as hopeless. the EDO run by a geriatric who belongs in the last century, and of course some players will always make a fool of themselves


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    #69
    Kingp35
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,246 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kingp35


    Look at the absolute state of this letter from the BDO. At least they have rescinded their idiotic levies. Somehow De still lives on.

    http://bdodarts.com/images/BDO-W.Pro-Rankings-%20PROMOTION%20.pdf


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    #70
    Justin Credible Darts
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Justin Credible Darts


    Kingp35 wrote: »
    Look at the absolute state of this letter from the BDO. At least they have rescinded their idiotic levies. Somehow De still lives on.

    http://bdodarts.com/images/BDO-W.Pro-Rankings-%20PROMOTION%20.pdf




    that is the 3rd version of this letter released



    The first des did not even have the balls to put his name to and had someone else send it...a frank branscomb



    The second letter is like the one you posted but had smileys on the thing with more typos.


    That organisation is a total clusterfuk and live ongoing comedy


  • Options
    #71
    Huntergonzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭Huntergonzo


    Just thinking about it the other day given the dire state of the BDO at the minute, but they really should have done better in the battle v the PDC, in fact if the brains were there they could have seen off the PDC, but Olly Croft refused to compete, just ploughed on as is.

    I mean when the split happened, sure the PDC (then WDC) had all the top ranked players but only a handful would remain so as quite a few of them were over the hill. The BDO had a massive advantage as whole system fed straight up to them, the PDC had to convince people that they knew what they were doing and to make the jump over (granted having Sky's money behind them helped).

    I don't think you could argue that the BDO World Championship was ever better than the PDC's, purely because of Phil Taylor (to be the best you have to beat the best), but for a period in the late 90s to about the mid 00s the BDO's overall standard was probably that bit better because they had all the new talent coming through.

    It's hard to pinpoint exactly when the steep decline began, but Barney leaving in 2006 was a big blow and I think the BDO has been particularly awful in the last 5 years, a complete joke really.

    At this point I think they are beyond repair, they badly missed the bus on Barry Hearn's offer 10 years ago so they don't deserve to be saved. But if they wish to remain as an amateur organisation then so be it, but it's painful to watch them parade around as 'highest level of darts' and continue to crown a 'world professional champion'.

    Ps, Lakeside is still a great venue and I hope to see darts return there soon on the tele, be it PDC or BDO.


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    #72
    Justin Credible Darts
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Justin Credible Darts


    some people will have a moan about this because he died, but olly croft was a bitter, vindictive horrible person who thought the game belonged to him. He even tried to stop players earning a living, not just for themselves but for their families.
    I am sorry he is dead, but death does not mean we alter history to erase the truth

    Let us not forget the bdo itself was started by him in a breakaway organisation initially, so the nerve of him to complain about others breaking away was staggering hypocrisy.

    Check out this by olly years back and see how backward and out of touch he was, and the utter rubbish he spewed
    https://web.archive.org/web/20030728004153/http://www.planetdarts.co.uk/article.asp?id=71103&Nv=1


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    #73
    Huntergonzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭Huntergonzo


    Justin Credible Darts wrote: »
    some people will have a moan about this because he died, but olly croft was a bitter, vindictive horrible person who thought the game belonged to him. He even tried to stop players earning a living, not just for themselves but for their families.
    I am sorry he is dead, but death does not mean we alter history to erase the truth

    Let us not forget the bdo itself was started by him in a breakaway organisation initially, so the nerve of him to complain about others breaking away was staggering hypocrisy.

    Check out this by olly years back and see how backward and out of touch he was, and the utter rubbish he spewed
    https://web.archive.org/web/20030728004153/http://www.planetdarts.co.uk/article.asp?id=71103&Nv=1

    Never read that before, it's embarrassing rubbish, spoilt child sort of stuff but it's exactly why the BDO nose dived, the pure arrogance of Olly Croft, he honestly believed he himself and the BDO were untouchable.

    Ok so it's not nice to speak ill of the recently deseased but I've seen him speak before (Blood On The Carpet about the split in darts for eg) and he came across appalling badly. Vindictive, nasty and hopelessly self centered, he had his time and by the late 80s it was time to go, but he clung on to power for as long as he possibly could and the BDO sealed their fate by sticking by him until it was far too late.


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    #74
    Justin Credible Darts
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Justin Credible Darts


    and to compound it he was succeeded by people equally as inept.


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    #75
    Huntergonzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭Huntergonzo


    Justin Credible Darts wrote: »
    and to compound it he was succeeded by people equally as inept.

    True enough, things didn't exactly improve when Olly was voted off the board, but then again I think the decline was already irreversible at that stage.


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    #76
    shockframe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,410 ✭✭✭shockframe


    Huntergonzo wrote: »
    Just thinking about it the other day given the dire state of the BDO at the minute, but they really should have done better in the battle v the PDC, in fact if the brains were there they could have seen off the PDC, but Olly Croft refused to compete, just ploughed on as is.

    I mean when the split happened, sure the PDC (then WDC) had all the top ranked players but only a handful would remain so as quite a few of them were over the hill. The BDO had a massive advantage as whole system fed straight up to them, the PDC had to convince people that they knew what they were doing and to make the jump over (granted having Sky's money behind them helped).

    I don't think you could argue that the BDO World Championship was ever better than the PDC's, purely because of Phil Taylor (to be the best you have to beat the best), but for a period in the late 90s to about the mid 00s the BDO's overall standard was probably that bit better because they had all the new talent coming through.

    It's hard to pinpoint exactly when the steep decline began, but Barney leaving in 2006 was a big blow and I think the BDO has been particularly awful in the last 5 years, a complete joke really.

    At this point I think they are beyond repair, they badly missed the bus on Barry Hearn's offer 10 years ago so they don't deserve to be saved. But if they wish to remain as an amateur organisation then so be it, but it's painful to watch them parade around as 'highest level of darts' and continue to crown a 'world professional champion'.

    Ps, Lakeside is still a great venue and I hope to see darts return there soon on the tele, be it PDC or BDO.

    The PDC really had Phil Taylor for the first 10 years or so. The majority of the rebels were past their best at the time of the split. Only Priestley and Harrington were more or equally successful after 93.

    More by accident than design but by 95 the BDO field was a lot more credible until the late 00's. The last few years of the unified worlds were fairly stale and a bit of a closed shop. 32 players was far too small for the sport especially one with a fading field. Opening up the game to more players simply had to happen.

    What made the BDO more exciting was the competitiveness of the field. Taylor won 11 of the first 13 PDC Worlds. You knew what to expect at Circus Tavern. At Lakeside anything could happen.

    The Barney switch was massive but in fairness the tide was turning before then. After Barry Hearns arrival there was new TV tournaments propping up most years and then the World Series. The BDO had a few live games of the World Masters and little else. Even the BBC didn't show the entire Lakeside event until 2005.

    It was Ally Pally in late 2008 that more or less established Darts at Christmas and with Barneys 9 darter,Taylors most complete final win along with Webster, Whitlock and Gando joining did a lot of harm to the BDO in the public's mindset.

    Then to make matters worse it has lost its youth appeal this decade with the PDC development tour.

    It's a bit sad that the BDO has gone downhill but the damage was done around the mid to late 00s.


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    #77
    Scoundrel
    Registered Users Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭Scoundrel


    shockframe wrote: »
    The PDC really had Phil Taylor for the first 10 years or so. The majority of the rebels were past their best at the time of the split. Only Priestley and Harrington were more or equally successful after 93.

    More by accident than design but by 95 the BDO field was a lot more credible until the late 00's. The last few years of the unified worlds were fairly stale and a bit of a closed shop. 32 players was far too small for the sport especially one with a fading field. Opening up the game to more players simply had to happen.

    What made the BDO more exciting was the competitiveness of the field. Taylor won 11 of the first 13 PDC Worlds. You knew what to expect at Circus Tavern. At Lakeside anything could happen.

    The Barney switch was massive but in fairness the tide was turning before then. After Barry Hearns arrival there was new TV tournaments propping up most years and then the World Series. The BDO had a few live games of the World Masters and little else. Even the BBC didn't show the entire Lakeside event until 2005.

    It was Ally Pally in late 2008 that more or less established Darts at Christmas and with Barneys 9 darter,Taylors most complete final win along with Webster, Whitlock and Gando joining did a lot of harm to the BDO in the public's mindset.

    Then to make matters worse it has lost its youth appeal this decade with the PDC development tour.

    It's a bit sad that the BDO has gone downhill but the damage was done around the mid to late 00s.

    Yeah very true the first few PDC/WDC worlds were terrible in comparison to BDO boring predictable with Taylor hammering the same old players over and over it was crap Taylor was winning finals to nil remember the excitement when Part beat Taylor in 2003? people were amazed that taylor was finally beaten. The BDO as it is now is finished which is really sad because if it had stayed at lakeside and could find someone competent to run it there is still very much a role for it even if it is as a feeder for PDC.


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    #78
    Huntergonzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭Huntergonzo


    shockframe wrote: »
    The PDC really had Phil Taylor for the first 10 years or so. The majority of the rebels were past their best at the time of the split. Only Priestley and Harrington were more or equally successful after 93.

    More by accident than design but by 95 the BDO field was a lot more credible until the late 00's. The last few years of the unified worlds were fairly stale and a bit of a closed shop. 32 players was far too small for the sport especially one with a fading field. Opening up the game to more players simply had to happen.

    What made the BDO more exciting was the competitiveness of the field. Taylor won 11 of the first 13 PDC Worlds. You knew what to expect at Circus Tavern. At Lakeside anything could happen.

    The Barney switch was massive but in fairness the tide was turning before then. After Barry Hearns arrival there was new TV tournaments propping up most years and then the World Series. The BDO had a few live games of the World Masters and little else. Even the BBC didn't show the entire Lakeside event until 2005.

    It was Ally Pally in late 2008 that more or less established Darts at Christmas and with Barneys 9 darter,Taylors most complete final win along with Webster, Whitlock and Gando joining did a lot of harm to the BDO in the public's mindset.

    Then to make matters worse it has lost its youth appeal this decade with the PDC development tour.

    It's a bit sad that the BDO has gone downhill but the damage was done around the mid to late 00s.

    I agree, I think the BDO recovered surprisingly quickly after the breakaway, losing their top 14 players should have been a disaster but it worked out fine, they essentially got a clear out of mostly over the hill players and the next generation took over.

    But again I don’t think the BDO’s World Championship was ever superior to the PDC’s because of Phil Taylor, however I also doubt Taylor would have won 11 out of 13 BDO World Championships because they probably did have a stronger field during that period than the PDC.

    The BDO really blew it and sowed the seeds of their own demise in the late 90s & early 00s. I mean Darts is a hugely popular sport which his easy to market and sell to the public and love him or hate him Barry Hearn came in to the PDC and took full advantage of this, improving the fortunes of the PDC year on year and making it more and more visible to the public. He attracted the casual fan and made it and experience to attend the Darts, a night out for everybody (now personally I love darts, so I wouldn’t be dressing up as a crayon or an oompa loompa etc, but I don’t have a problem with people who want to go and enjoy themselves either).

    The BDO on the other hand almost seemed to view themselves as above that, they catered for the purist only and seemed completely inept at competing with Barry Hearn’s ever growing machine. The BDO was born in the 70s and seemingly wished to remain in the 70s, that simply doesn’t work in any business, you must adapt and compete, the BDO refused and we now see the outcome of their stubbornness.


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    #79
    Justin Credible Darts
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Justin Credible Darts


    the pdc or former WDC was the best from day one of the split.

    How can the top 14 in the world playing in one code not be better than the other.

    This myth the bdo was superior is nonsense spewed by mushrooms (bdo fans) so often , over and over and over that casual fans started to believe the lie because it was repeated so often.
    What normal person with a modicum of intelligence when thinking on a "World Champion" thinks of Christian Kist, Steve Beaton, Mark Webster and the rest of the dross that won what was and is a an amatuer open glorified and hyped as a "world pro"


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    #80
    Huntergonzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭Huntergonzo


    Justin Credible Darts wrote: »
    the pdc or former WDC was the best from day one of the split.

    How can the top 14 in the world playing in one code not be better than the other.

    This myth the bdo was superior is nonsense spewed by mushrooms (bdo fans) so often , over and over and over that casual fans started to believe the lie because it was repeated so often.
    What normal person with a modicum of intelligence when thinking on a "World Champion" thinks of Christian Kist, Steve Beaton, Mark Webster and the rest of the dross that won what was and is a an amatuer open glorified and hyped as a "world pro"

    Look I don't think the BDO was ever superior to the PDC, and I always far preferred the PDC, in fact I hated the BDO for a long time.

    Just in my older less impetuous years I've come around to the fact the BDO had a pretty strong field in the late 90s and early 00s and was a wide open World Championship. Never better than the PDC thanks to Taylor but of the 14 who left, only 3 or 4 went on to play well for a nunber of years, most were over the hill.

    The difference is since the split the PDC improved year on year while the BDO intially recovered and had a strong field for the first maybe 10 years but sharply declined at the end of the 00s and have been a joke over the last 5 years in particular.

    But again it's important to recognise the role the BDO has played in the establishment of mainstream darts (I say that with no particular love for them nor Olly Croft). It's easy to criticize them but don't forget, every single PDC world champion to date started off in the BDO.


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    #81
    Justin Credible Darts
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Justin Credible Darts


    Huntergonzo wrote: »
    Look I don't think the BDO was ever superior to the PDC, and I always far preferred the PDC, in fact I hated the BDO for a long time.

    Just in my older less impetuous years I've come around to the fact the BDO had a pretty strong field in the late 90s and early 00s and was a wide open World Championship. Never better than the PDC thanks to Taylor but of the 14 who left, only 3 or 4 went on to play well for a nunber of years, most were over the hill.

    The difference is since the split the PDC improved year on year while the BDO intially recovered and had a strong field for the first maybe 10 years but sharply declined at the end of the 00s and have been a joke over the last 5 years in particular.

    But again it's important to recognise the role the BDO has played in the establishment of mainstream darts (I say that with no particular love for them nor Olly Croft). It's easy to criticize them but don't forget, every single PDC world champion to date started off in the BDO.


    I have always said, the bdo will survive and do what it is best at, and that is grass roots, county scene, and local opens.
    They need to embrace they are amateur



    But this nonsense they ran a "world pro" or that they were "professional" is a complete joke.


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    #82
    Huntergonzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭Huntergonzo


    Justin Credible Darts wrote: »
    I have always said, the bdo will survive and do what it is best at, and that is grass roots, county scene, and local opens.
    They need to embrace they are amateur



    But this nonsense they ran a "world pro" or that they were "professional" is a complete joke.

    Well they may not survive if they keep making bad decisions.

    I think their world championship still had enough talented players to be considered a legitimate title up until probably the mid to late 00s, after that it went down hill sharply.

    I certainly agree that they shouldn't still be crowning a world professional champion though, an amateur champion by all means but the PDC champion holds the legitimate crown and has done for many years.


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    #83
    Cosmo Kramer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,990 ✭✭✭Cosmo Kramer


    Justin Credible Darts wrote: »
    the pdc or former WDC was the best from day one of the split.

    How can the top 14 in the world playing in one code not be better than the other.

    This myth the bdo was superior is nonsense spewed by mushrooms (bdo fans) so often , over and over and over that casual fans started to believe the lie because it was repeated so often.
    What normal person with a modicum of intelligence when thinking on a "World Champion" thinks of Christian Kist, Steve Beaton, Mark Webster and the rest of the dross that won what was and is a an amatuer open glorified and hyped as a "world pro"

    There's a fair bit of rewriting of history in this post. The top 14 as you call them were only the top 14 in 1993. Despite losing all those players after 93 within a year the BDO had regrouped and was the more credible of the two championships for a decade afterwards. The PDC really only had Taylor, the standard beyond him was shocking in the early years as most of the players that left the BDO were already in decline and they struggled to attract players back then to boost the standard. In fact I'd go as far as to say that had the PDC not had Taylor on board the whole thing would probably have collapsed by the late 1990s or early 2000s.

    While he was clearly the best player in the world there's absolutely no way PT would be a 16 time world champion had the split not happened, there were too many players in the BDO who would have been able to pick him off here and there over the years to reduce the number of titles he won.

    The split had to happen to get darts to where it is now but we were denied some classic World Championship matchups in the 90s and the first half of the 00s, mostly involving Taylor, as a result. However, by the late 2000s the whole thing had turned around and the BDO Worlds started to lose credibility.

    I'd say any BDO world champion up to 2006 would have had just as much justification to call themselves the world champion as their PDC equivalent that year. Sure, Taylor was a better player, but he had very little to beat to win those titles. The tournament averages in the BDO were higher than the PDC almost every year during this time, despite the PDC having Taylor there to boost their averages. After 2006, that all changed as the BDO fell away badly at that stage (basically once enough players left that Wolfie started winning).

    You could argue that this year's PDC tournament is the first genuinely unified World Championship since 1993 though as with Durrant switching I'd say it's the first year that not one BDO player would be in the top 16 in the PDC.


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    #84
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,293 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Fallon Sherrock withdraws.
    https://dartsnews.com/fallon-sherrock-withdraws-from-2020-bdo-world-championship-after-prize-money-slashed-due-to-poor-ticket-sales/


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    #85
    US2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,651 ✭✭✭US2


    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    Fallon Sherrock withdraws.
    https://dartsnews.com/fallon-sherrock-withdraws-from-2020-bdo-world-championship-after-prize-money-slashed-due-to-poor-ticket-sales/

    Loaded now I suppose doesn't need it. Only a few weeks ago she was travelling all around Europe for 1 or 2k.

    She might regret it her last chance to be a world champion


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    #86
    Huntergonzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭Huntergonzo


    Disaster for the BDO only to sell 15% of their tickets, this getting more and more embarrassing as the years go by.

    Why did they move away from Lakeside anyway, the standard wasn't going to improve and clearly neither did the ticket sales!

    I can understand Sherrocks's frustration, I'm sure every player is frustrated but I wonder what her plans are now, will she try her hand at Q school?


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    #87
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    She wouldn't win it anyway, Lisa Ashton and Suzuki are better players than her.

    Some PR man has instructed her to drop out of this to hightlight the gender paygap. She'll probably go on the morning talk show circuit to speak about the gross injustice.


    Don't expect basic economics to be mentioned though.


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    #88
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    Huntergonzo wrote: »
    Disaster for the BDO only to sell 15% of their tickets, this getting more and more embarrassing as the years go by.

    Why did they move away from Lakeside anyway, the standard wasn't going to improve and clearly neither did the ticket sales!

    I can understand Sherrocks's frustration, I'm sure every player is frustrated but I wonder what her plans are now, will she try her hand at Q school?
    Exbos and the world series. Play a bit of Challenge Tour and some BDO Opens on the side.


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    #89
    ThebitterLemon
    Registered Users Posts: 6,621 ✭✭✭ThebitterLemon


    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    Fallon Sherrock withdraws.
    https://dartsnews.com/fallon-sherrock-withdraws-from-2020-bdo-world-championship-after-prize-money-slashed-due-to-poor-ticket-sales/

    The skeptic in me thinks this also suits her as a loss here might have tarnished her recently acquired image and have a detrimental effect on her media persona

    TbL


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    #90
    jr86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭jr86


    DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »
    Some PR man has instructed her to drop out of this to hightlight the gender paygap. She'll probably go on the morning talk show circuit to speak about the gross injustice.
    ThebitterLemon wrote: »
    The skeptic in me thinks this also suits her as a loss here might have tarnished her recently acquired image and have a detrimental effect on her media persona

    TbL

    100% agree with TheBitterLemon's reason more tbh


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    #91
    Kingp35
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,246 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kingp35


    ThebitterLemon wrote: »
    The skeptic in me thinks this also suits her as a loss here might have tarnished her recently acquired image and have a detrimental effect on her media persona

    TbL

    This is Definitely the reason.

    The BDO is screwed. Sherrock was the main part of their promotion in recent days and I reckon people bought tickets to see her. They may seek a refund now.


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