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Cannabis Legalisation Ireland

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Comments

  • #92
    Carfacemandog
    Registered Users Posts: 2,042 ✭✭✭Carfacemandog


    Strumms wrote: »
    The psyche of Dutch people of Irish people is different. That is not a comparable argument.

    We are not talking about ‘street materials’.. first go to argument for anybody without an argument... whataboutery....
    I'm not sure you got what they meant by that comment? As I read it, 'street materials' means the practices of lacing weed with sand, gravel, etc to make it weigh more (as it's sold by weight), or the horror stories you used to hear about 'soapbar' hash years ago wherein anything they could find was thrown in and melted down into it.

    Regarding drink driving/drug driving and the related points, are you also in favour of making alcohol illegal?


  • #93
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,799 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    I saved the post this time! Here is my reply:

    Boards
    randd1 wrote: »
    Stick on a poll there OP and see how we go on this issue.

    Don't need one, here's the previous thread with a poll. Spoiler: just under 72% in favour of Full Legalisation.
    i_surge wrote: »
    Ask any cop and they will agree that cannabis use will temper the terrible culture we have around alcohol. Less violence for sure.

    Ex-Garda here, and I 100% agree.

    I agree that at this stage, it's a case of when, not if. Problem is, the people who make that decision will be swayed by the rich and business owners. We don't want a situation like America where only the rich can start up the businesses. In the crappy USofA, you need $500,000 in the bank before they'll even talk to you about it. This has led to the black market still being very active, as it's still lucrative. Something like 80% of cannabis produced in California, the biggest producer in the world, is sold illegally, because people can't get licences to open their own shops to sell it. Supply far outweighs legal demand because to cover costs, it's the same or more expensive than the black market.

    Even if it's the same price, I would go legal, better regulated, knowledge, cleanliness, choice of strength and ways to consume. I'd be off smoking if I could get it in vape form, or edibles, or any of the many other ways to consume.

    If it was regulated properly here, it would be a win-win for this country. Yeah, you'll have those who can't handle it/shouldn't use it, but you have those with every type of intoxicant, most obvious with the legal poison alcohol. I am one of them, I shouldn't drink, so I don't. Imagine that, I made my own decision on that! I'm a great stoner though, but I can't make my own decision on that.

    Alas, I have no hope of a government who gives themselves pay rises and cuts the publics money to have enough brain cells to bring this to fruition. Maybe the next crowd. Probably not though.


  • #94
    Tomaldo
    Registered Users Posts: 587 ✭✭✭Tomaldo


    Rubberchikken wrote: »
    Why is the argument of 'personal choice's always raised with cannibis use yet few if any argue that for heroin use.

    To me it's all the same. Muck used by idiots with no self respect or sense or intelligence who think drugs are the way.

    The Beatles and Rolling Stones took it, are they idiots


  • #95
    Sureitlbegrand
    Registered Users Posts: 87 ✭✭Sureitlbegrand


    Once it becomes legal in the UK surely we will have to follow suit with us and the north having an open border


  • #96
    Tomaldo
    Registered Users Posts: 587 ✭✭✭Tomaldo


    Strumms wrote: »
    Less violence is positive.

    More people getting into drive motor vehicles under the influence will increase

    More crashes, accidents, injury, loss of life on our roads will increase

    More people missing work

    More people developing psychological issues

    More people using cannabis as a gateway drug to more serious addictions and the fallout of that.

    How do you know all those things WILL happen, have you a crystal ball, will you lend it to me I want to get the winning lottery numbers. Anyway if and when it is legal, we won't need as many Gardai in the Drugs Squad and they can pursue them for those nefarious activities.


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  • #97
    kjl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,127 ✭✭✭kjl


    What really annoys me about this whole issue is that every single person who's being critical of cannabis almost certainly drink alcohol. Alcohol imho is the worst drug of all, you go to an a&e on Friday and Saturday nights, you don't see stoners in the filling up for beating each other up or doing something stupid.

    Every single argument against legalising on this thread has been made without taking into account that people already smoke it on a daily basis and the world county hasn't blown up. Like seriously there have been some really stupid comments about how drug gangs will still sell it illegally so their solution is to keep it illegal and give those gangs 100% of the market.

    I would argue that the vast majority of people in the county want to see it legalised so let's put it to a vote, let us have our voice.

    How do we the individual get people behind this? How do we get the ball rolling?


  • #98
    kjl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,127 ✭✭✭kjl


    Strumms wrote: »
    Less violence is positive.

    More people getting into drive motor vehicles under the influence will increase

    More crashes, accidents, injury, loss of life on our roads will increase

    More people missing work

    More people developing psychological issues

    More people using cannabis as a gateway drug to more serious addictions and the fallout of that.

    Good points and don't forget it makes black people think that the are equal to white people, next thing you know they will be chatting up our women. Like seriously as someone with access to the internet could you get out of your echo chamber and actually do some research before you post such waffle.


  • #99
    Sureitlbegrand
    Registered Users Posts: 87 ✭✭Sureitlbegrand


    biko wrote: »
    I tend to agree with Mike Skinner
    "How can something with no recorded fatalities be illegal?"


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZx5OgKQNrA

    I think there might be one fatality

    A huge bale of it fell on him and killed him on the spot.


  • #100
    Aongus Von Bismarck
    Registered Users Posts: 1,794 ✭✭✭Aongus Von Bismarck


    My brother is a casebook example of why cannabis shouldn't be legalised in Ireland.


  • #101
    Carfacemandog
    Registered Users Posts: 2,042 ✭✭✭Carfacemandog


    One other things regarding legalisatio nand costs, is that cheaper weed being around could make it easier for people to roll weed-only joints. These are more common in North America, if someone were smoking one to themselves (using a single paper, not the big long yokes some people roll here) they would tend to smoke it over the course of a few hours, a couple of tokes at a go. The difference in the type of 'high' you get in the exact same strain is remarkable, as nicotine apparently mixes badly with THC which causes a high that kicks in faster, spikes way higher, can be more disorienting, and wears off quicker.

    Added to that, and I can attest to this from when I smoked more of it years back, when you mix nicotine and THC, you begin to crave another joint a few hours down the line because you are conflating the two and are craving a cigarette.

    I remembered it being far cheaper in Canada and after looking it up, you can buy an ounce there for $120, which is about €80. The pre-rolled joints in the place I posted a picture of earlier were half a gram, so that would be 56 joints about €1.50 for an all-weed, half gram joint, so about on par with a lower priced can of beer. Now a joint will do far more than a beer unless it is incredibly low percentage wise, but my point is more about removing nicotine and tobacco from the process which would also have a positive impact. Vaping and edibles etc also do the same thing, they even have cannibas soft drinks over there, I tried one fruit flavoured one and it was actually quite nice! I also tried a THC lolly pop, word of warning, fecking nasty tasting and wound up in the bin almost immediately.

    A lot of Americans and Canadians who like weed absolutely will not touch anything with tobacco in it because they dislike cigarettes and/or they don't like the high from it. The last I heard, in Ireland that same ounce in Ireland (where you don't even know what you're getting on a number of levels) was about €300, though I wouldn't be surprised to see if it has gone up since.


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  • #102
    Dionysius2
    Registered Users Posts: 342 ✭✭Dionysius2


    I have followed the cannabis debate for 3 decades and the de facto situation makes no sense whatever. A thousand questions occur to me but I'm going to put them aside and make my point via two questions the first of which I will ask now: "Just why is cannabis illegal?".
    No round the houses answers please, just that simple question.....why ?


  • #103
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    Carfacemandog wrote: »
    One other things regarding legalisatio nand costs, is that cheaper weed being around could make it easier for people to roll weed-only joints. These are more common in North America, if someone were smoking one to themselves (using a single paper, not the big long yokes some people roll here) they would tend to smoke it over the course of a few hours, a couple of tokes at a go. The difference in the type of 'high' you get in the exact same strain is remarkable, as nicotine apparently mixes badly with THC which causes a high that kicks in faster, spikes way higher, can be more disorienting, and wears off quicker.

    Added to that, and I can attest to this from when I smoked more of it years back, when you mix nicotine and THC, you begin to crave another joint a few hours down the line because you are conflating the two and are craving a cigarette.

    I remembered it being far cheaper in Canada and after looking it up, you can buy an ounce there for $120, which is about €80. The pre-rolled joints in the place I posted a picture of earlier were half a gram, so that would be 56 joints about €1.50 for an all-weed, half gram joint, so about on par with a lower priced can of beer. Now a joint will do far more than a beer unless it is incredibly low percentage wise, but my point is more about removing nicotine and tobacco from the process which would also have a positive impact. Vaping and edibles etc also do the same thing, they even have cannibas soft drinks over there, I tried one fruit flavoured one and it was actually quite nice! I also tried a THC lolly pop, word of warning, fecking nasty tasting and wound up in the bin almost immediately.

    A lot of Americans and Canadians who like weed absolutely will not touch anything with tobacco in it because they dislike cigarettes and/or they don't like the high from it. The last I heard, in Ireland that same ounce in Ireland (where you don't even know what you're getting on a number of levels) was about €300, though I wouldn't be surprised to see if it has gone up since.

    Prohibition is directly responsible for many tobacco addictions plus the harm from years of smoking contaminated crap. That is the biggest link people need to see...huge uptick in public health.

    Smoke a pure sativa just a few hits and go live your best life sort of stuff.

    Not monged on the couch chain smoking dirty street skunk.


  • #104
    Carfacemandog
    Registered Users Posts: 2,042 ✭✭✭Carfacemandog


    Dionysius2 wrote: »
    I have followed the cannabis debate for 3 decades and the de facto situation makes no sense whatever. A thousand questions occur to me but I'm going to put them aside and make my point via two questions the first of which I will ask now: "Just why is cannabis illegal?".
    No round the houses answers please, just that simple question.....why ?
    You'll get a better, more concise answer here than I reckon anyone can give you - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_cannabis_law

    Not being sarcastic either, it's just an interesting list I had never seen before about a minute ago.


  • #105
    Tomaldo
    Registered Users Posts: 587 ✭✭✭Tomaldo


    Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »
    My brother is a casebook example of why cannabis shouldn't be legalised in Ireland.

    Please explain, but before you do your brother's experience of it is not the same as the majority of cannabis users and I don't wish to sound insensitive


  • #106
    coolbeans
    Registered Users Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭coolbeans


    Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »
    My brother is a casebook example of why cannabis shouldn't be legalised in Ireland.

    I'm genuinely sorry to hear that. I would ask though, if he's experienced these problems under the current system where it's illegal to buy, produce and sell weed, how is your statement an argument for maintaining the status quo?


  • #107
    Carfacemandog
    Registered Users Posts: 2,042 ✭✭✭Carfacemandog


    coolbeans wrote: »
    I'm genuinely sorry to hear that. I would ask though, if he's experienced these problems under the current system where it's illegal to buy, produce and sell weed, how is your statement an argument for maintaining the status quo?
    His brother is a prosecutions attorney that specialises exclusively in THC based cases.


  • #108
    coolbeans
    Registered Users Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭coolbeans


    Carfacemandog wrote: »
    His brother is a prosecutions attorney that specialises exclusively in THC based cases.



    I don't understand what THC based cases are. Regardless I would suggest that that appeal to his brother's direct experience is analogous to going to an emergency room full of gunshot wound victims and asking the surgeon how they feel about gun control.


  • #109
    The Bishop Basher
    Registered Users Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    Strumms wrote: »
    The psyche of Dutch people of Irish people is different. That is not a comparable argument.

    How are they different and how does that impact this discussion ?
    Strumms wrote: »
    We have drug driving laws. But people who are inhibited by drugs , alcohol etc often make choices that make them act in contravention of said laws.

    Well if this is was the case then surely we need to ban alcohol. As it happens though, cannabis doesn't have the same effect on your ability to make good decisions so you're not comparing like with like.
    Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »
    My brother is a casebook example of why cannabis shouldn't be legalised in Ireland.

    I and many others could also be a casebook example of why alcohol should be banned but thankfully we don't enact our laws and restrict the freedom of others in response to a minority of cases even though with alcohol the numbers affected and subsequent damage to society is far greater.


  • #110
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 18,895 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    kjl wrote: »
    Right so your argument is that because criminals could still possible sell cannabis we should hand over 100% of the market to them?


    No, it isn't, Cathy fuckin Newman.


    Try reading it again, slower maybe.


  • #111
    Hoop66
    Registered Users Posts: 2,287 ✭✭✭Hoop66


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    I've never used illegal drugs, thank God, I'd probably be a basket case if I did

    Interesting that you use the legality, or otherwise, of the drugs as a measure of how likely they are to do you harm.


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  • #112
    Hoop66
    Registered Users Posts: 2,287 ✭✭✭Hoop66


    Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »
    My brother is a casebook example of why cannabis shouldn't be legalised in Ireland.

    Well, no. Assuming your brother has problems in his life because of cannabis use, he is a "casebook example" of why he personally should not use cannabis.


  • #113
    Church on Tuesday
    Registered Users Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭Church on Tuesday


    Tomaldo wrote: »
    Please explain, but before you do your brother's experience of it is not the same as the majority of cannabis users and I don't wish to sound insensitive

    No such brother exists.

    Just make the stuff legal and tax the **** out of it.

    Criminal elements will still push it though, obviously some people will want to go down the cheaper route to source it, any one who thinks that massively negative element to it will go away once it becomes legal is frankly deluded.


  • #114
    elefant
    Registered Users Posts: 4,647 ✭✭✭elefant


    Strumms wrote: »
    The psyche of Dutch people of Irish people is different. That is not a comparable argument.

    Less than half of Amsterdam's population is of Dutch origin. The city continues to function pretty well, despite so much of its population not having the required psyche to deal with its coffeeshops.


  • #115
    B.A._Baracus
    Registered Users Posts: 11,170 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    Re: alcohol is worse than pot

    Ah sure you always see goons roll out of Guinness warehouse to do a drive-by shooting. Something about 'turf wars' .... :pac:


    Erm yeah....


  • #116
    Carfacemandog
    Registered Users Posts: 2,042 ✭✭✭Carfacemandog


    elefant wrote: »
    Less than half of Amsterdam's population is of Dutch origin. The city continues to function pretty well, despite so much of its population not having the required psyche to deal with its coffeeshops.

    And since they are talking about Canada, that country also has a huge migrant population. 22% of the country were not even born in Canada, including over half of Torontos population. A good few Irish live over there too, surely if it's an 'Irish psyche' issue those people would right now be experiencing and exhibiting what that poster is referring to.


  • #117
    Carfacemandog
    Registered Users Posts: 2,042 ✭✭✭Carfacemandog


    B.A._Baracus wrote: »
    Re: alcohol is worse than pot

    Ah sure you always see goons roll out of Guinness warehouse to do a drive-by shooting. Something about 'turf wars' .... :pac:


    Erm yeah....
    You must not be familiar with the likes of Al Capone. Of course since the US got rid of prohibition, that hasn't been much of an issue over there... weird, eh?

    Your post is actually a reasonably solid argument for legalisation.


  • #118
    B.A._Baracus
    Registered Users Posts: 11,170 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    Carfacemandog wrote: »
    You must not be familiar with the likes of Al Capone. Of course since the US got rid of prohibition, that hasn't been much of an issue over there... weird, eh?

    Your post is actually a reasonably solid argument for legalisation.

    Yeah the 1920s. Sorry what year is it again today? Oh that's right 2020. A hundred years eh?

    But ah sure let's legalise pot cause Carfacemandog says it'll be grand. Not like someone in the thread said Amsterdam legalising wasn't exactly a 100% clean getaway from criminal gangs.

    But let's legalise it. Those scumbag drug dealers will probably get day jobs then. Not like a black markets would pop up for more stronger / illegal types of cannabis. The answer is solely in legalising it. Everything else will be grand lads.

    And see that 6 pack you're going to drink at the weekend guys? That's worse than hash. Remember that. Forget all the crime with drugs :pac:

    Well that's pretty much what I learned today on boards.ie - if only I could print all this out and use it for toilet paper. Then I'd be on the pigs back :pac:


  • #119
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    B.A._Baracus wrote: »
    Yeah the 1920s. Sorry what year is it again today? Oh that's right 2020. A hundred years eh?

    A reasonable example in comparison to your own statement... since your statement completely ignores the high that comes with being stoned. Had you ever been stoned, you wouldn't have suggested that violence would be likely... whereas with alcohol, violence is very common.
    But ah sure let's legalise pot cause Carfacemandog says it'll be grand. Not like someone in the thread said Amsterdam legalising wasn't exactly a 100% clean getaway from criminal gangs.

    Amsterdam suffers from multiple problems which cause a significant rise in crime. Being a port city for one. Fairly high incoming migration from people who ended up on the bottom levels of society. An established prostitution industry with heavy links to organised crime. I could go on...
    But let's legalise it. Those scumbag drug dealers will probably get day jobs then. Not like a black markets would pop up for more stronger / illegal types of cannabis. The answer is solely in legalising it. Everything else will be grand lads.

    It means removing the vast majority of weed (and hash) from the black market, which is a major source of income for dealers in Ireland. It won't remove it all, because there will be strains/mixes which will fall outside of what's legal. It also depends on the price and the degree to which it's taxed... but it would make a serious dent in the income of drug dealers.
    And see that 6 pack you're going to drink at the weekend guys? That's worse than hash. Remember that. Forget all the crime with drugs :pac:

    It worse considering the behavioral extremes that tends to arise from drinking vs being stoned.
    Well that's pretty much what I learned today on boards.ie - if only I could print all this out and use it for toilet paper. Then I'd be on the pigs back :pac:

    It's obvious you've learned nothing because all you're showing is complete ignorance. :rolleyes: Which is why you've decided to post extremes as justification for your stance.


  • #120
    The Bishop Basher
    Registered Users Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    B.A._Baracus wrote: »
    And see that 6 pack you're going to drink at the weekend guys? That's worse than hash. Remember that. Forget all the crime with drugs :pac:

    Yes. Alcohol is quite a bit "worse" largely due to the violent nature of crime associated with it such as murder, assault, rape, molestation etc etc.

    People who consume cannabis aren't prone to violent crime. It just doesn't have that kind of effect on people.

    Don't take my word for it....


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  • #121
    Carfacemandog
    Registered Users Posts: 2,042 ✭✭✭Carfacemandog


    B.A._Baracus wrote: »
    Yeah the 1920s. Sorry what year is it again today? Oh that's right 2020. A hundred years eh?
    Yep, nearly 100 years and no huge alcohol black market fuelling crime. Like I said, you're making a great argument in favour of legalisation.
    But let's legalise it. Those scumbag drug dealers will probably get day jobs then. Not like a black markets would pop up for more stronger / illegal types of cannabis. The answer is solely in legalising it. Everything else will be grand lads.
    You'll need to point me to the booming moonshine and ethanol-for-drinking underground trades that replaced Al Capone and co in the US that you're talking about, because I can't say I'm that familiar with them.


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