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President Donald Trump - Formal Impeachment Inquiry Announced

  • 25-09-2019 2:19am
    #1
    Veritas Libertas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 579 ✭✭✭




    House Speaker Nancy Pelosi announces a formal impeachment inquiry into President Donald Trump over the whistleblower complaint on Trump's communication with Ukraine about Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden and his son Hunter Biden. /CNN


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Comments

  • #2
    Veritas Libertas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 579 ✭✭✭Veritas Libertas


    Don't know why CNN keep referring to this as an 'impeachment process', seems like they're leaving a window open to backtrack at some stage.

    Pelosi's change of heart followed reports that Trump had pressured Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky in a July 25 phone call to investigate Democratic presidential frontrunner Joe Biden and his son.
    Trump promised on Tuesday(To release Wednesday[today]) to release a transcript of his phone call. He also confirmed he had withheld nearly $400m in US aid to Ukraine but denied he did so as leverage to get Zelensky to initiate an investigation that would damage Biden.

    It would rely on a republican senate convicting him, although his charge seems pretty serious. I hope that audio(transcript) gets released to the public.


  • #3
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,093 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    There goes Bidens shot at 2020. I wonder how man more will fall with him, would be terrible if he took Obama and Hillary down as well.
    Trump seems confident he's not the bag guy in this story, them dims have ran headfirst into a trap.


  • #4
    Veritas Libertas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 579 ✭✭✭Veritas Libertas


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    There goes Bidens shot at 2020. I wonder how man more will fall with him, would be terrible if he took Obama and Hillary down as well.
    Trump seems confident he's not the bag guy in this story, them dims have ran headfirst into a trap.

    How could you spin "confirmed he had withheld nearly $400m in US aid to Ukraine"? With even a vague connection to Biden, how could this story play out well for Trump? (I don't know much about this story)


  • #5
    Veritas Libertas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 579 ✭✭✭Veritas Libertas


    • Speaker of the house indicates a willingness to take these investigations to more formal level.
    • House must agree.
    • Then it goes to the senate.




  • #6
    Mr E
    Registered Users Posts: 55,451 ✭✭✭✭Mr E


    The transcript from that Ukranian call will be key here.


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  • #7
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,093 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPsiSM4H8ZY


    They just opened Pandora's Box on themselves.


  • #8
    un5byh7sqpd2x0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭un5byh7sqpd2x0


    Mr E wrote: »
    The transcript from that Ukranian call will be key here.

    Just like the one Nixon released after Watergate?


  • #9
    begsbyOnaTrain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 272 ✭✭begsbyOnaTrain


    Veritas Libertas wrote: »
    With even a vague connection to Biden, how could this story play out well for Trump? (I don't know much about this story)

    It's not a vague connection, it's dodgy dealings done (allegedly) by his son. That's the way the R's are gonna hammer this, as would any political party worth its salt.


  • #10
    Veritas Libertas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 579 ✭✭✭Veritas Libertas


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    They just opened Pandora's Box on themselves.
    Biden had a proescutor fired, and got one put in, they dismissed a case against an organization that was collecting false information about Trump and Manafort, and feeding it to the DNC. That organization was run by Soros who then hired the crooked FBI to work for Soros. This stinks.

    6minutes 39seconds in your video.

    Rudy Giuliani's defence of Trump. I think Trump's ****ed.


  • #11
    Duane Dibbley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭Duane Dibbley


    I get the feeling this will come to nothing as usual.


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  • #12
    Veritas Libertas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 579 ✭✭✭Veritas Libertas


    Duane Dibbley wrote: »
    I get the feeling this will come to nothing as usual.

    Usually I would agree, but given the facts at present, Rudy Giuliani's defence of Trump and Pelosi's change of heart I just can't see how you can put together 400$m, Biden, Trump and Ukraine without it going horribly wrong for everyone involved.
    Can't wait for those transcripts. The one way I don't see this going is fizzling out!

    Hypothetical: If it turns out Trump did influence Ukraine for his benefit of investigating Biden, do you think the senate would impeach him?


  • #13
    Duane Dibbley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭Duane Dibbley


    Veritas Libertas wrote: »
    Usually I would agree, but given the facts at present, Rudy Giuliani's defence of Trump and Pelosi's change of heart I just can't see how you can put together 400$m, Biden, Trump and Ukraine without it going horribly wrong for everyone involved.
    Can't wait for those transcripts. The one way I don't see this going is fizzling out!

    Hypothetical: If it turns out Trump did influence Ukraine for his benefit of investigating Biden, do you think the senate would impeach him?

    I think this will drag out so long that Trump will have finished his term of Presidency by the time it reaches conclusion.


  • #14
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,505 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Veritas Libertas wrote: »
    Can't wait for those transcripts.

    That will be heavily edited.

    The entire unedited audio and the testimony from the whistle-blower is what will determine if there is merit in this.


  • #15
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,282 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Mr E wrote: »
    The transcript from that Ukranian call will be key here.

    He’ll release one transcript that has nothing incriminating on it, then he will push the nothing to see agenda. There will have been multiple calls and conversations that won’t be released.
    I’d say the release today will add nothing to this.


  • #16
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,093 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Veritas Libertas wrote: »

    Hypothetical: If it turns out Trump did influence Ukraine for his benefit of investigating Biden, do you think the senate would impeach him?

    It's a republican Senate not a hope. I don't see anything wrong with asking Ukraine to assist in the criminal investigation of Biden. It's looks like it goes a bit deeper than Biden, Obama and the Clintons are wrapped up in it.


  • #17
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,505 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    I don't see anything wrong with asking Ukraine to assist in the criminal investigation of Biden.

    You don't see anything wrong in the POTUS using the office to effectively get an edge on an election by "blackmailing" a foreign power?

    Srsly?

    Whether you don't see anything wrong with it or not, it's a crime.


  • #18
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,093 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    What crime is it? It's exposed or has the potential to expose serious crimes. So they have a choice now plough ahead with the impeachment and expose themselves or back down. It's a checkmate situation. Every which way they lose.


  • #19
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,505 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    What crime is it?

    Solicitation of a foreign power to "meddle" in an election is a crime.

    https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=(title:52%20section:30121%20edition:prelim)

    The fact you can't see anything wrong with it is moot.


  • #20
    Call me Al
    Registered Users Posts: 3,020 ✭✭✭Call me Al


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    It's a republican Senate not a hope. I don't see anything wrong with asking Ukraine to assist in the criminal investigation of Biden. It's looks like it goes a bit deeper than Biden, Obama and the Clintons are wrapped up in it.

    You see nothing wrong.... but it is illegal, so what you or any other regular joe see or believe is irrelevant. He either broke the law or he didn't.

    I'm also surprised trump supporters aren't trying to shoehorn a few more Democrat names in there. It's just bait for all those crazies that populate twitter and facebook. After all it's the only way to deflect from the fact that it's their beloved Trump who is being impeached and will be openly investigated. I mean Giuliani was even ranting about Soros!

    And Hilary again? Seriously that ship has sailed.

    It's a bit like an attempt at a sting from a dying wasp. But the wasp's death is going to just drag on and on for the year ahead.


  • #21
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,545 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    If it can be shown that he made $400 million in aid contingent on Ukraine taking part in something that was aimed at smearing Biden in some way, that would be a pretty serious issue.

    But I don't think many party members on either side would actually give much of a sh!t about the actual principles of it all. The Dems would piously attack, the Reps would prevaricate and play down and muddy the waters, and some time in the not-too-distant future something similar will happen under a Democrat president, and everybody will play the political game again, except with roles reversed, making the same arguments they all had such contempt for previously.

    Nothing matters really, except for getting your champ in the white house and then keeping them there. Anything is fair game when it comes to that.

    I'm sure this is what the impeachment is about also.


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  • #22
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,219 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    What crime is it?

    https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/trump-can-t-be-prosecuted-ukraine-call-about-biden-rudy-ncna1058196
    As explained by my colleague, former U.S. Attorney Barbara McQuade, in the Daily Beast, it is a crime under the federal bribery statute for a public official to demand anything of value in exchange for performing an official act. Additionally, the Hobbs Act defines extortion as "obtaining property from another, with his consent, under color of official right." McQuade continues:

    The essence of both crimes is a demand by a public official to obtain something for himself to which he is not entitled in exchange for performing an official act of his office. Here, if the reporting is correct, Trump may be similarly committing bribery and extortion by using the power of his office to demand a thing of value, dirt on Biden, in exchange for an official act, the provision of military aid. This is precisely the kind of old-fashioned corruption scheme that the bribery and extortion statutes were designed to punish.
    And, if Giuliani assisted or agreed to assist this scheme — even if he did not fully adopt the entire plan — may have aided and abetted or conspired to commit those same crimes. In addition, the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act makes it illegal for a U.S. citizen to corruptly offer “anything of value” to a foreign official to retain business or influence an official decision.

    Giuliani defended himself by claiming that “no money was mentioned, no quid pro quo,” in the call between Trump and the Ukranian president. Let’s see if that’s true. But more important, Giuliani — a former mob prosecutor — surely knows that most crimes don’t happen so explicitly. In 16 years of listening to criminals on wiretaps, I rarely heard anyone say, “If you don’t give me X, I will do Y.” That’s not how mafia bosses work. They make a “request” and others follow up with the demand. The law is very clear that a quid pro quo need not be explicit for a crime to have taken place. It can be inferred from the facts as a whole.

    ^^^crimes


  • #23
    Call me Al
    Registered Users Posts: 3,020 ✭✭✭Call me Al


    Boggles wrote: »
    You don't see anything wrong in the POTUS using the office to effectively get an edge on an election by "blackmailing" a foreign power?

    Srsly?

    Whether you don't see anything wrong with it or not, it's a crime.
    Trump doesn't think so either. I think he said as much a couple of weeks back?... hmmm... I wonder why he might have said that!


  • #24
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,505 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Call me Al wrote: »
    Trump doesn't think so either. I think he said as much a couple of weeks back?... hmmm... I wonder why he might have said that!

    When Fox News contributors are saying he committed a crime, I think it's time for his cheerleaders to check their pom poms.


  • #25
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Duane Dibbley wrote: »
    I think this will drag out so long that Trump will have finished his term of Presidency by the time it reaches conclusion.

    You think itll keep going till 2024 ?


  • #26
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,093 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Boggles wrote: »
    When Fox News contributors are saying he committed a crime, I think it's time for his cheerleaders to check their pom poms.

    I don't think that's what there saying. CNN aren't even saying that. Biden is the story.


  • #27
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,219 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    I don't think that's what there saying. CNN aren't even saying that. Biden is the story.

    Pretty sure impeachment proceedings against the sitting President is the story.


  • #28
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,505 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    I don't think that's what there saying. CNN aren't even saying that. Biden is the story.

    Judge Napolitano: Trump has admitted committing crime in talks with Ukraine

    Like I said time to check the pom poms.


  • #29
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,093 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Penn wrote: »
    Pretty sure impeachment proceedings against the sitting President is the story.

    Those proceedings are going nowhere she doesn't even know what she's impeaching him for, all off the back of a whistleblower with a dislike for Trump. She's playing high stakes poker and has went all in without checking her cards.
    He won't be impeached by a republican Senate he may win the election while this is all going on though.


  • #30
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,505 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    all off the back of a whistleblower with a dislike for Trump.

    Oh, discredit the whistleblower. Cool tactic, pretty original too. :rolleyes:

    How do you know he / she has a dislike for Trump?


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  • #31
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,219 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Those proceedings are going nowhere she doesn't even know what she's impeaching him for, all off the back of a whistleblower with a dislike for Trump. She's playing high stakes poker and has went all in without checking her cards.
    He won't be impeached by a republican Senate he may win the election while this is all going on though.

    The impeachment hearings are going to be more than just Ukraine though, she's instructed each of the Chairs of the House committees to bring forward their strongest arguments against Trump, so it'll likely run into emoluments violations, obstruction as per the Mueller Report etc. It also gives those committees greater powers to hold hearings and subpeona information/witnesses even before it gets to the Senate for a vote.

    We also don't know what evidence the whistleblower supposedly has. Evidence which may negate any accusations of dislike against Trump.

    What Pelosi did yesterday is the first step among many. This will drag on for quite a while before (or even if) it gets to the Senate for a vote, and we don't know what will come out. We'll have to wait and see.

    Regardless, if Trump did what he's being accused of, that's a crime.


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