By-Elections 2019

charlie14 wrote: »

I have pointed out to you in numerous posts that Fine Gael have shown no interest in funding Slaintecare which is being championed by their very own Minister for Health, Simon Harris.
Yet you somehow imagine that ALL other parties will follow what Simon Harris cannot even get the backing of his own party on by the letter with detailed funding in their manifesto`s .
Seriously, when it comes to politics, wherever you are coming from, it is not the real world

Oh, I fully expect most of the other political parties to release manifesto's proclaiming grand quick fixes for the Health System, yet will avoid telling us
a) how they will pay for it
b) avoid telling us about SlainteCare, even though they signed up to it.

You would think that a party, who sign up to a 10 year Health Service plan a few years ago, if/when offered their chance in government would tell us about funding and implementation, once the big bad wolf Simon Harris is out of the picture and they have the levers of power in the Dept. of Health....

Dont you?? Or is that just expecting too much?

markodaly wrote: »

I'll make this simple for you.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/regional-healthcare-to-return-in-biggest-restructuring-of-hse-in-15-years-1.3956601



You are welcome.

I`ll make it even simpler for you. Fine Gael will not even back their own Health Minister Harris on it.


Do you know what horse designed by a committee is generally referred to as being ?
A camel.

markodaly wrote: »

http://michaelpidgeon.com/manifestos/docs/pfgs/PfG%202009%20-%202011%20-%20FF-Green.pdf



Just admit that you were wrong and lets move on.

Please at least attempt to have a bit of sense and drop those Fine Gael blinkers on water charges at least.
Proposals in political terms mean diddly squat.



FG/Labour didn`t just propose something vague in 2013. The enacted legislation on metering and water charges with all the bells and whistles attached.

charlie14 wrote: »

Counter what.
Your post is nothing other than your usual semantics when confronted with uncomfortable truths.

I gave you the facts on who established Irish Water and domestic metering and when.
Perhaps I missed it but I do not remember FF/Greens passing any act to establish national domestic metering or them installing meters for that purpose

You weren't giving facts on who established domestic metering, you were alleging ownership of the idea.

charlie14 wrote: »

Water metering did not fail simply because of the number of people from the LA`s taken on by Irish Water.
It was FG`s baby and failed because it was an ill thought out mess from day one where FG had one shot at getting it right and got it so spectacularly wrong they have taken it off the political agenda for generations.

charlie14 wrote: »

Missed this earlier.
It was Fine Gael that demanded the establishment of Irish Water and domestic metering. Labour were not without blame as they canvassed on a manifesto of no water charges prior to GE 2011 ,but the LA staff moved over to Irish Water played a very small part in a FG led fiasco that cost taxpayers 1Billion euro. It was FG`s brainfart.



Phil Hogan the then Fine Gael T.D. was the Minister for Environment, Community and Local Government who established Irish Water and domestic water metering or had his "trickle" escaped your memory.

If you want to concede that it was Fianna Fail and the Greens' idea to introduce domestic water metering and that it was Fine Gael and Labour who later attempted to implement it, then you would be giving the facts.

In the same way, you would state that Slaintecare was the initiative of an all-Party Oireachtas committee, but that committee, and all of the political parties on it, have failed to say how it would be funded, then you would be giving the facts.

Unfortunately, your posts are all just slants on the truth.

charlie14 wrote: »

Unfortunately your posts are pedantic rubbish on water metering and now Slaintecare.



If you want to waste your time attempting to somehow claim that FF/Greens were responsible for Irish Water, water metering and the waste of 1 Billion euro of taxpayers money rather than the FG/Lad government that legislated for and introduced all the above, then I wish you luck in that alternative universe. You work away there. I will stay here in this one.

Never said that FF/Greens implemented it, just said it was their idea (and a good idea too, in my opinion). Mostly a Green idea, by the way.

charlie14 wrote: »

As you,(unlike some here) do at times appear to have some knowledge of realpolitik. Do you actually somehow believe that a policy being pursued by a Minister who cannot even get backing or funding from his own government party on it, is going to appear with detailed funding for that exact policy in any parties manifesto ?

For what it is worth my own opinion is that each party will go with what was contained in their own submission to that committee as part of their manifesto on health care,
For anyone to believe that any parties or individuals manifesto on health care will be word for word with detailed funding attached that of a committee report composed of such a diverse grouping as FG, FF, SF, Labour, Ind, Ind4Change, SD and S-PBP is living in cloud cuckoo land.

Now, that is exactly why this "new politics" we have heard about for the last few years won't work. Parties won't stand over their own committee report.

Yet, it is possible when two or three are forced to work together in a coalition, they will adopt Slaintecare. And we will have the likes of Matt on here complaining that X party didn't keep their election promise.

markodaly wrote: »

Oh, I fully expect most of the other political parties to release manifesto's proclaiming grand quick fixes for the Health System, yet will avoid telling us
a) how they will pay for it
b) avoid telling us about SlainteCare, even though they signed up to it.

You would think that a party, who sign up to a 10 year Health Service plan a few years ago, if/when offered their chance in government would tell us about funding and implementation, once the big bad wolf Simon Harris is out of the picture and they have the levers of power in the Dept. of Health....

Dont you?? Or is that just expecting too much?

Do you not have the first clue about politics and party manifestos or are you just typing nonsense for the craic like?
All parties in advance of a General Election publish there manifestos outlining their views, with costings, on all major budgetary issues.


As to your a) & b) Fine Gael, whose Minister is pushing this idea plus a few add-ons of his own, have not only not told us how they are going to pay for it, their Minister for Finance,Public Expenditure and Reform has no interest in funding it and the Taoiseach didn`t even bother turning up for its launch.


Do you not get that this was a report where a very diverse grouping of politicians in a committee all threw in their tuppence ha`penny worth for the sake of appearances and none of them have even the vaguest notion of adopting this plan verbatim which you seem to expect.

You really know very little about politics if you believe any party, Fine Gael included, on the run in to a general election are going to show other parties word for word with costings included exactly what they are going to have in their manifesto on any department let alone a major budget department like health care.
Or that they are going to throw an opposition Minister bones to help him out of a hole in a department where he is completely out of his depth.

charlie14 wrote: »

Proposals in political terms mean diddly squat.

You mean a program for government as agreed to by FF and the Greens ment nothing. :pac:
Right so Ted.

FG/Labour just continued the proposal and enacted legalisation, which of course was pushed by the EU in the first place.

Are you on those Irexit people?

charlie14 wrote: »

As to your a) & b) Fine Gael, whose Minister is pushing this idea plus a few add-ons of his own, have not only not told us how they are going to pay for it, their Minister for Finance,Public Expenditure and Reform has no interest in funding it and the Taoiseach didn`t even bother turning up for its launch.

You have access to the Fine Gael manifesto for the 2020 General Election.
My my, please do share, even though we all know it has not be written yet.

You have been wrong on this a number of times.
You stated that Simon Harris alone and unitlatterly set up the new RHB's when in fact I pointed out to you that it was actually a SlainteCare plan, adopted and supported by all parties.
Now you want to shift the goalposts.

Do you not get that this was a report where a very diverse grouping of politicians in a committee all threw in their tuppence ha`penny worth for the sake of appearances and none of them have even the vaguest notion of adopting this plan verbatim which you seem to expect.

So you are saying, the opposition parties have no idea how to fix the health service?
So, tell me again, who is going to fix the health service so?

You really know very little about politics if you believe any party, Fine Gael included, on the run in to a general election are going to show other parties word for word with costings included exactly what they are going to have in their manifesto on any department let alone a major budget department like health care.
Or that they are going to throw an opposition Minister bones to help him out of a hole in a department where he is completely out of his depth.

Isn't that what you are looking for now?

I truely have no idea what your point is anymore as you have spun around so many times you could be half way to New Zealand at this stage.

markodaly wrote: »

You are going to have to elaborate more on this please, preferably with some actual evidence?

Why am I going to have to elaborate more ?


I have already shown that your "only game in town" is not even of interest to the government party whose Minister for Health pushing it.

That when it comes to committees reports from a multitude of very diverse parties and individuals on the political spectrum and political manifestos you either haven`t a clue or you are purposely avoiding realities that do not suit your narrative or political agenda.

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

For FCUK sake, would the FG lick spittles ever take fcuking ownership of their own clusterfcuks, and stop with the usual fcuking played out "blame anyone else" spiel.

They, along with Labour introduced the fcuking omnishambles, period!

This baloney about "ah well, Shure that was originally FF plan" is bullsh1t, why don't you go the full hog, and trace ideas for a water utility company with charges right the way back to fcuking Dev and Collins, or the potato famine.

Anything unpopular or a massive screw up, they can't disown quick enough blame and point elsewhere, (like a petulant toddler might do), popular referendums that they ran and passed, despite arguably being the brainchild of other party's they are all over like nappy rash to take the glory.

If shouldn't be allowed to continue on the site, as it just creates days and days of endless, mind dumbing fcukerty with who is to blame.

Just like FF were left holding the parcel when the Celtic tiger music stopped, FG were caught with the y-fronts down with Irish water, now they need to take responsibility and own it.

Fcuking ridiculous.

A bit early to be on the sauce, but it is Christmas, so you’re excused.

markodaly wrote: »

Because what you are saying is an opinion and not verified by anything other than your own belief.


So, in your opinion SlainteCare will be dead when the next Government takes office.
If so, how is that FG's fault, assuming FG are not in government?

Verified by the fact that FG have no belief or interest in Harris promoting Slaintecare by them only allocating 0.12% of the health service budget to it.


Are you really that naive to think that another party taking the reins would run with a health policy verbatim of the previous health minister when even his own party had no interest in it?