Irish Roll of Honour WWII

Morlar · 12-06-2009 3:19pm #1

Saw this on the RTE website and thought it would be of interest to some here. I am surprised this list has not been compiled until now - also at the fact that it says 'thought to have died'. I would have thought the british authorities could easily ascertain this exact figure based on place of birth alone. Still it is a step in the right direction and this list in my view should be on display at Collins Barracks military museum also.

Roll of honour for Irish war dead

The names of more than 7,500 men and women from the island of Ireland killed while serving in the British armed forces during the World War II are being brought together for the first time in a roll of honour.

It will be unveiled at Trinity College Dublin today and a copy will be on display for the public to read in the college's library.

More than 3,600 men and women from the Republic are thought to have died serving in the British forces between 1939 and 1945.

Almost 3,900 men and women from Northern Ireland died while in service.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0612/ww2.html

Would anyone know where an equivalent list from WWI might be ?

Morlar · 12-06-2009 4:09pm

This story is covered far more comprehensively by the beeb

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/8095110.stm

Men and women from the Irish Free State who fought in World War Two have not been given the respect they deserve, a historian has said.

A new study by the University of Edinburgh has found more than 3,600 soldiers from the south of Ireland died on active service during WWII.

Their names join those of almost 3,900 fallen combatants from Northern Ireland on a roll of honour being unveiled at Trinity College Dublin on Friday.

The study estimates that in the British army alone, as many as 100,000 people from the island of Ireland served in WWII, despite the Irish Free State's neutrality in the conflict.

The role of soldiers from Northern Ireland is well-acknowledged, but it was a different story for veterans in the south coming home to a country whose leader Eamon de Valera had paid his respects to the German representative in Dublin when news of Hitler's death emerged.

WWII broke out just 18 years after partition and the Irish War of Independence, and soldiers were seen as having fought for a foreign power.

Historian Yvonne McEwen said the ambitious project, which began in 2003, was inspired by stories of her grandfather's experience upon coming home after WWI where he fought as a Royal Irish Fusilier.

"Society was not very kind to returning men who fought in the First World War, and I wanted to look at that in terms of WWII particularly with a partitioned country," she said.

"I wanted to learn what happened to these men and women on both sides of the border - it turned out to be a staggering picture.

"I suppose it was like becoming a detective - the more I uncovered, the more I wanted to know. I've learned a lot about the sacrifice made on the island of Ireland."

After the war, Irishmen were cold-shouldered by a de Valera-led government that did not see why they should qualify for state welfare payments when they came home from fighting for a foreign power.

Ms McEwen said that even now, some veterans feel they can't talk freely about their role in the war.

"We have a WWII veteran who'd love to come to the unveiling, but he said he's not coming because he's fearful of reprisals," she said.

"That is why it is important people realise this document exists - it shows the contribution made by people in the south was considerable.

"In fact between the north and south, almost equal numbers served in WWII - there's only a difference of about 200.

"These men and women from the south need to be acknowledged - I think we've gone beyond politics now."

The roll of honour will be permanently housed in the Trinity College library, but Ms McEwen said some of the blanks in her research still needed to be filled.

"We would be delighted to hear from people who have a family member who served and died who feel they've never been recognised, or even to check that they're listed," she said.

"You can email me at yvonne.mcewen@ed.ac.uk"

arnhem44 · 21-06-2009 1:26am

It is a long overdue acknowledgement for these service men and definitly a step in the right direction.I'm not aware of a similar roll of honour for casualties of the Great War,saying that there may be one somewhere.The Irish casualty lists have been covered and are now on c.d.,the whole WW1 Irish connection is still a taboo to some people sadly.

Morlar · 22-06-2009 11:00am

arnhem44 wrote: »

The Irish casualty lists have been covered and are now on c.d.,the whole WW1 Irish connection is still a taboo to some people sadly.

Who are you referring to ? If you mean republicans well there is nothing remotely un-republican about acknowledging our nations contribution to WWI. Quite the opposite in my view. It would be a step to re-claiming the national identity of our fighting men who up until now go down in history as 'British'.

Maybe I am wrong but I think we are past the stage where people look at things in that kind of way to be honest. The motto of 'Neither King Nor Kaiser but Ireland' served it's purpose for its time but in the 21st century we no longer need to make those choices so it is time we properly acknowledged them. For what it is worth I am also starting to think we could do with a memorial to the fallen british soldiers in Ireland we are a mature enough society at this stage. I would also agree with those who say that the British army should also be invited to Rising commemorations - this would be a sign of our maturity & not some form of subservience.

The only people I can think who could have an objection to Ireland acknowledging her WWI dead would be the far left anti-military people who would account for about 1% of the population & usually grow out of it when they leave their teens.

arnhem44 · 22-06-2009 12:21pm

You are right,people should be mature enough at this stage to be beyond this but there is still an element who don't agree,the town of Fermoy if I'm not wrong had a motion put forward in the past few years for a memorial to there war dead,this was condemed by local Sein Fein who argued the point that a volunteer had been killed there during the civil war by the British,thankfully people got past this and the memorial was erected,right been right there should be a memorial in every town or village that a fallen soldier had come from but this is not the case and even to this day its not done in most places,these soldiers fought for there beliefs just like the volunteers of the civil war,I think politics intervened after the war and returning soldiers kept quite,some even had inlisted under different names for fear of reprisals.For definate the attitudes have changed,I think as a nation we have grown and matured and everybody should accept the fact that thousands of Irish served in the British army,some out of nesscessity.I for one would love to see a memorial put up here in town for the WW1 war dead on the national school where these lads went to on the opposite wall to the existing plaque to the three volunteers of the uprising,one of these been Michael Collins,no doubt he would of known some of these men,just not sure how republicans would feel about it though.

arnhem44 · 22-06-2009 12:34pm

Irish War Memorial Gardens

I'd just like to add this link I came across, if anyone is interested in the fallen war dead of Ireland during the Great War please have a look.Something I'd like to see myself sometime.I've never been here myself but according to the Wiki link the records can be viewed on micro-film

http://www.myguideireland.com/war-memorial-gardens

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_National_War_Memorial_Gardens

Morlar · 22-06-2009 1:01pm

I think, just like the rising, the 100th anniversary of the start of the Great War will be the time when public awareness will be at it's highest in years. Maybe then there would be some progress on that.

arnhem44 · 22-06-2009 1:13pm

Hopefully,I think they deserve better.

Dinter · 01-07-2009 11:39am

I find it sad that veterans should be ashamed of the sacrifices they made. Whatever my feelings about Britain I always think of that quote along the lines of, the British Empire was won by the Irish, administered by the Scots and Welsh and lost by the English.

Although we do our best to ignore the fact that Irish men have always made up a vital part of English forces I cannot read about the Charge of the Heavies in the Crimea or "The Devil's Own" without a surge of pride. Since the flight of the Earls our military history is inextricably tied up as mercenaries or freedom fighters and whatever the reasons or causes of both we should be proud of their exploits.

It's about time that we acknowlege that our nearest neighbour has played an important part in the development of this country. Whether lauding or lynching Irish citizens they've helped define our history and culture.

Sometimes it seems Ireland would be prouder of an Einsatzkommando from Co. Cork then a "Paddy" from Dublin.

gizmo555 · 01-07-2009 3:07pm

Dinter wrote: »

I find it sad that veterans should be ashamed of the sacrifices they made. Whatever my feelings about Britain I always think of that quote along the lines of, the British Empire was won by the Irish, administered by the Scots and Welsh and lost by the English.

Although we do our best to ignore the fact that Irish men have always made up a vital part of English forces I cannot read about the Charge of the Heavies in the Crimea or "The Devil's Own" without a surge of pride. Since the flight of the Earls our military history is inextricably tied up as mercenaries or freedom fighters and whatever the reasons or causes of both we should be proud of their exploits.

It's about time that we acknowlege that our nearest neighbour has played an important part in the development of this country. Whether lauding or lynching Irish citizens they've helped define our history and culture.

Sometimes it seems Ireland would be prouder of an Einsatzkommando from Co. Cork then a "Paddy" from Dublin.

Coming back to the thread topic, we should indeed be proud of those who fought and died to bring down the evil of Nazism, no matter which flag they fought under.

What this has to do with those who assisted in the subjugation of other nations and peoples in the name of the British Empire, or why we should be proud of the "exploits" of these "mercenaries", as you put it, is utterly beyond me.

Dinter · 01-07-2009 3:17pm

gizmo555 wrote: »

Coming back to the thread topic, we should indeed be proud of those who fought and died to bring down the evil of Nazism, no matter which flag they fought under.

What this has to do with those who assisted in the subjugation of other nations and peoples in the name of the British Empire, or why we should be proud of the "exploits" of these "mercenaries", as you put it, is utterly beyond me.

I would have thought that were self evident. Until recently our military history revolves around what was done by Irishmen on the behalf of others. There's no point in castigating the actions of their employers and ignoring the employees which unfortunately for many years was how Ireland as a nation behaved.

I don't know how you feel about the Wehrmacht but are you one of these people who believes Monte Cassino or the invasion of Crete occured in a vacuum?

gizmo555 · 01-07-2009 3:59pm

Dinter wrote: »

I would have thought that were self evident. Until recently our military history revolves around what was done by Irishmen on the behalf of others. There's no point in castigating the actions of their employers and ignoring the employees which unfortunately for many years was how Ireland as a nation behaved.

I don't know how you feel about the Wehrmacht but are you one of these people who believes Monte Cassino or the invasion of Crete occured in a vacuum?

Sorry, I haven't the faintest idea what all this is supposed to mean.

Dinter · 01-07-2009 4:09pm

gizmo555 wrote: »

Sorry, I haven't the faintest idea what all this is supposed to mean.

Ah there's no need to apologise at all. I might have been a bit too complicated there.

Basically over sixty years after the end of WWII there is to be an Irish Roll of Honour created. The delay in recognising the sacrifices made is indicative of the mindset of many Irish people. Indeed it illustrates the mindless contempt that some hold for Irishmen who fought for foreign powers.

Jesus. · 22-05-2015 7:22pm

Is it true that, per capita, more Catholics enlisted in Northern Ireland during WW2 than Protestants?

I've heard it mentioned a couple of times but it sounds rather odd

darkdubh · 08-03-2018 1:22pm

Here are a couple of interesting clips of Patricia O Neill, from Cork talking about her experiences of enlisting in the British armed forces.

<iframe src="https://www.facebook.com/plugins/video.php?href=https://www.facebook.com/corkfolklore/videos/1708162875915626/&show_text=1&width=560" width="560" height="640" style="border:none;overflow:hidden" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowTransparency="true" allowFullScreen="true"></iframe>

<iframe src="https://www.facebook.com/plugins/video.php?href=https://www.facebook.com/corkfolklore/videos/1708165235915390/&show_text=1&width=560" width="560" height="640" style="border:none;overflow:hidden" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowTransparency="true" allowFullScreen="true"></iframe>

greenspurs · 01-02-2022 11:13am

How/Where would you search for relatives that died in WW2 ?

Irish Roll of Honour WWII

Comments