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Scottish independence

13567…117

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  • #62
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 14,988 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    considering how the EU feels about our rate, I would only imagine on the very slim chance of them getting back into the EU, that not dropping it below 19% would be the basis of any agreement to let them in to stop precisely that.

    With the Catalan situation still unresolved Scotland may be a long way from EU membership so it could be a moot point.

    With regards to a referendum campaign I can imagine the independence side offering their own versions of sunlit uplands and unicorns that the Leave campaign did for Brexit.


  • #63
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    Westminster decided Rockall was part of the UK and allocated it to Scotland with its own exclusion zone around it and fisheries is devolved to Scotland therefore Scotland is implementing Westminster law

    Rubbish. The SNP were pandering to the Scottish fishing community in an attempt to prise Shetland away from the Lib Dems.


  • #64
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,012 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Jayferg wrote: »
    Food for thought

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/here-s-why-scotland-is-in-sights-of-putin-s-russia-andrew-foxall-and-james-rogers-1-4890453/amp

    Don't dump links here please.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • #65
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users Posts: 5,030 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    I don't hide behind it because it's bad for Ireland, I'm pretty open about saying it's bad for Ireland.

    And I lack a penchant for all things British/UK as equally as I lack a penchant for all things Scottish.

    I'm pretty ambivalent about Catalan independence, because I don't think it would have the same effect on Ireland as Scottish independence would.

    So I'm not hiding behind anything.

    You generalise about "republicans" on here. You're the flip side of the same predictable coin on any matters relating to Britain


  • #66
    otnomart
    Registered Users Posts: 4,065 ✭✭✭otnomart


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    With the Catalan situation still unresolved Scotland may be a long way from EU membership so it could be a moot point.
    The only EU Country that was against Scottish independence was Spain.
    That changed after Brexit.
    Spain now would not oppose Scotland secessing from another non-EU Country.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-spain-politics-scotland/spain-would-not-oppose-future-independent-scotland-rejoining-eu-minister-idUSKCN1NP26D



    I can actually see France being in favour of Scotland gaining independence and joining the EU.
    It would mean access to Scottish fishing waters for French fishing vessels.


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  • #67
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,489 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    US2 wrote: »
    This "we voted remain" is nonsense. Should gay marriage still be illegal in rosscomon ?

    If they wanted to secede I mean sure, wish them luck


  • #68
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    if the SNP want independence, they should get the English to vote on it.


  • #69
    bob mcbob
    Registered Users Posts: 971 ✭✭✭bob mcbob


    Aegir wrote: »
    if the SNP want independence, they should get the English to vote on it.

    Agreed all you need there is a bus with a catchy slogan on the side.


  • #70
    rock22
    Registered Users Posts: 1,547 ✭✭✭rock22


    The SNP, while saying they want to join the EU after an independence vote are also saying they want to retain their own currency etc. They appear to believe they would have the same exceptions the UK won for itself.

    I think the Scottish are unlikely to vote for independence. Independence creates uncertainty and most Scottish people are rathr conservative, especially in matters fiscal.


  • #71
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 16,964 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    rock22 wrote: »
    The SNP, while saying they want to join the EU after an independence vote are also saying they want to retain their own currency etc. They appear to believe they would have the same exceptions the UK won for itself.

    If Scotland becomes independent it will have to have its own currency (which they can peg to Sterling if they wish). They have to agree to adopt the Euro if they wish to join the EU but only when they meet the convergence criteria

    https://theferret.scot/independent-scotland-join-the-euro/


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  • #72
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 9,979 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    derrymcorry wrote: »
    A
    Do you believe that it would be in the best interests of the Scottish people to become an indpendent country within the EU?

    Why do you assume they'd join the EU when EFTA/EEA would better suit their purposes?????
    derrymcorry wrote: »
    I, as an Irish republican, would be delighted to see an indpendent Scotland as I believe they could be our best friend within the EU now with England gone.

    We've got plenty of very good friend in the EU and our diplomats are very good at making use of them. It's seems this is more about you and your interests that what is best for Scotland.
    derrymcorry wrote: »
    Also, think about the benefits that Scottish independence could have for Irish reunification.

    If and it is a very big if, Irish unity will happen in accordance with the GFA provisions as we have signed up to. Noting to do with Scotland.


  • #73
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 9,979 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    With the Catalan situation still unresolved Scotland may be a long way from EU membership so it could be a moot point.

    You need to open you mind a bit. There is noting stopping Scotland from joining EFTA and accessing the single market via the EEA agreement, the same as Norway. In fact it would probably suit them much better than EU membership.


  • #74
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 9,979 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    If Scotland becomes independent it will have to have its own currency (which they can peg to Sterling if they wish).

    There is no obligation on them to do so, they could just adapt Sterling if they wished. A Scottish central bank and government issuing bonds etc... in Sterling would cause headaches for the BOE, but's life.


  • #75
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 16,964 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    There is no obligation on them to do so, they could just adapt Sterling if they wished. A Scottish central bank and government issuing bonds etc... in Sterling would cause headaches for the BOE, but's life.

    Yes and that would be their own currency


  • #76
    TeaBagMania
    Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭TeaBagMania


    Not only should Scotland become independent from england but we should unit our clans and become one Celtic nation with Scotland


  • #77
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 14,988 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    You need to open you mind a bit. There is noting stopping Scotland from joining EFTA and accessing the single market via the EEA agreement, the same as Norway. In fact it would probably suit them much better than EU membership.

    But the whole resurgence in Scottish independence since the 2014 referendum has been around the idea that they are being dragged out of the EU by the English.

    Scotland voted Remain, thus if they were independent they would not be leaving the EU.

    If independence is possible without EU membership then it's not as appealing is it ?


  • #78
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 16,964 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    But the whole resurgence in Scottish independence since the 2014 referendum has been around the idea that they are being dragged out of the EU by the English.

    Not quite clear as that, Scotland was split 55% - 45% on the independence question. The 45% mostly moved to vote for the SNP in subsequent elections to keep the pressure on and the SNP put a manifesto commitment that they would seek another referendum if Brexit happens and Scotland voted to remain. This was a material change since the 2014 referendum as the No side claimed that the only way to stay in the EU was to vote No

    The SNP asked the Tories to make the Brexit referendum contingent on all 4 constituent countries of of the UK voting to leave, this was refused and Scottish interests and views have been ignored ever since
    If independence is possible without EU membership then it's not as appealing is it ?

    Scotland cannot currently make any decision about EFTA/EU/EEA or any other group as they are hitched to whatever England whats to do and England currently does not want to do what is in Scotlands interests


  • #79
    derrymcorry
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 61 ✭✭derrymcorry


    TeaBagMania wrote: »
    Not only should Scotland become independent from england but we should unit our clans and become one Celtic nation with Scotland

    This is a fantastic idea, but not as full countries but maybe in an EU alliance.

    When there is a united Ireland and let's be real here it will happen before 2050, an independent Scotland would be a great ally given that most of the loyalists in the Six Counties are Scottish.


  • #80
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    Scotland cannot currently make any decision about EFTA/EU/EEA or any other group as they are hitched to whatever England whats to do and England currently does not want to do what is in Scotlands interests

    Is a hard border with England in Scotland’s interests?


  • #81
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 16,964 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Aegir wrote: »
    Is a hard border with England in Scotland’s interests?

    Maybe, maybe not


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  • #82
    beggars_bush
    Registered Users Posts: 4,327 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    Overheal wrote: »
    If they wanted to secede I mean sure, wish them luck

    A hard border between Roscommon and Mayo would great.


  • #83
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 14,988 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Aegir wrote: »
    Is a hard border with England in Scotland’s interests?

    If we have learned anything thus far from Brexit it is that decoupling from existing unions is not trivial.
    So imagine what decoupling Scotland from the rest of the UK would be like, especially for people and businesses along the border between Scotland and England.

    Any who suggests otherwise would be like Liam Fox in 2017.


  • #84
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    especially for people and businesses along the border between Scotland and England.

    The border between Scotland and England is much more straightforward then the NI/Republic border.

    It is only 154 km long vs. 500 km in Ireland, and a lot of it is across remote/mountainous national park. Berwick-upon-Tweed is the only biggish town nearby, and it is only 12,000 people, so similar to Strabane vs. Derry with 90,000.


  • #85
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 16,964 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    New poll out by Ashcroft and it confirms UK is heading for dissolution

    https://twitter.com/AileanBeaton/status/1186172707706146816


  • #86
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    The border between Scotland and England is much more straightforward then the NI/Republic border.

    It is only 154 km long vs. 500 km in Ireland, and a lot of it is across remote/mountainous national park. Berwick-upon-Tweed is the only biggish town nearby, and it is only 12,000 people, so similar to Strabane vs. Derry with 90,000.

    It’s still a border though and would still mean regulatory and customs checks.

    If the Irish back stop was just about it being a bit difficult then the UK would have left the Eu by now.

    It will be ignored by Scottish Nationalists though and written off as project fear.


  • #87
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 16,964 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    1. The Tories are refusing another Section 30 order therefore there is no referendum confirmed and is unlikely to take place for at least another 4-6 months if the order was agreed
    2. If Scotland voted for independence then it will probably be another 2 years before independence takes place
    3. Scotland would not join the EU immediately as it will need to demonstrate how it meets the criteria
    4. It is reasonable to suggest that Scotland and rUK would enjoy a CTA similar to Ireland and UK
    5. It is reasonable to suggest that some sort of trade agreement will take place between Scotland and rUK
    6. The UK trade arrangement with the EU is unknown at this point therefore we do not know what the border will look like if Scotland joins the EU


  • #88
    circadian
    Registered Users Posts: 6,895 ✭✭✭circadian


    Aegir wrote: »
    It’s still a border though and would still mean regulatory and customs checks.

    If the Irish back stop was just about it being a bit difficult then the UK would have left the Eu by now.

    It will be ignored by Scottish Nationalists though and written off as project fear.

    The SNP have been actively planning this for years. I'd hazard a guess they'd be a lot more organised than the absolute chaos that is Brexit.

    The behaviour towards Scottish politicians has been abhorrent. I can guarantee that treating the majority party in a regional Parliament in such a way will result in a response. The current government is burning bridges left, right and centre at the minute and I can't tell if it's a result of arrogance or sheer stupidity.


  • #89
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    circadian wrote: »
    The SNP have been actively planning this for years. I'd hazard a guess they'd be a lot more organised than the absolute chaos that is Brexit.

    The behaviour towards Scottish politicians has been abhorrent. I can guarantee that treating the majority party in a regional Parliament in such a way will result in a response. The current government is burning bridges left, right and centre at the minute and I can't tell if it's a result of arrogance or sheer stupidity.

    what sort of response? are the SNP going to declare war or something?

    They should sort out their own backyard first though, they seem to be losing support left right and centre as the Scots start to realise that there is a bot more to running a country than blind nationalism.


  • #90
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    1. The Tories are refusing another Section 30 order therefore there is no referendum confirmed and is unlikely to take place for at least another 4-6 months if the order was agreed
    2. If Scotland voted for independence then it will probably be another 2 years before independence takes place
    3. Scotland would not join the EU immediately as it will need to demonstrate how it meets the criteria
    4. It is reasonable to suggest that Scotland and rUK would enjoy a CTA similar to Ireland and UK
    5. It is reasonable to suggest that some sort of trade agreement will take place between Scotland and rUK
    6. The UK trade arrangement with the EU is unknown at this point therefore we do not know what the border will look like if Scotland joins the EU

    I do find it mildly amusing that Scottish Nationalists (or is that Irish nationalists in Scotland :confused:) seem to have completely missed the shenanigans over Brexit and seem to think that somehow none of that will apply to them.


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  • #91
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 9,979 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Aegir wrote: »
    what sort of response? are the SNP going to declare war or something?

    The winning party in a referendum almost always looses in a repeat.... the loosing party now know the full impact of the arguments used to win and will be able to more effectively challenge them second time around.


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