The Batman (Matt Reeves) spoilers from post 1030

mloc123 · 05-01-2019 9:05pm

Is DCEU dead now? No JL2?

IncognitoMan · 06-01-2019 4:13am

Aquaman just became the highest grossing film of the DCEU, on course to break a billion, made more than 15 of the 20 MCU movies or something crazy.

I think they'll plough on to be honest. Could be a while before we see Batman or Superman again though and JL2 is way way off, if it ever gets made.

Johnmb · 06-01-2019 8:14pm

IncognitoMan wrote: »

Aquaman just became the highest grossing film of the DCEU, on course to break a billion, made more than 15 of the 20 MCU movies or something crazy.

I think they'll plough on to be honest. Could be a while before we see Batman or Superman again though and JL2 is way way off, if it ever gets made.

They may just keep the characters separate, effectively killing the DCEU. It wouldn't be that hard for them to keep the current Wonder Woman and Aquaman, but in their movies they simply never refer to each other or the other JL members. It would be as if they were stand alone universes. That way, they can keep the successful franchises and reboot the others as they see fit without having to keep them all tied in.

IncognitoMan · 07-01-2019 3:52am

Johnmb wrote: »

They may just keep the characters separate, effectively killing the DCEU. It wouldn't be that hard for them to keep the current Wonder Woman and Aquaman, but in their movies they simply never refer to each other or the other JL members. It would be as if they were stand alone universes. That way, they can keep the successful franchises and reboot the others as they see fit without having to keep them all tied in.

I don't know. They made it clear in Aquaman that it's set after JL. Shazam has Superman and Batman references as well. Both are under the new studio head so if they were looking to go separate I would presume they would just stop referencing the wider universe.

The easy move would of course be to just go separate but if they have 2 or 3 successful series going they will want to team them up for a bigger box office. They always do.

The universe isn't unsavable, it just needs direction with an overall vision and something to work towards. That was what the shake up was meant to be about and Aquaman is the first of the 'new' set up and seems to be a hit financially at least. Shazam isn't far away so we'll see how that shapes up.

Cotts72 · 09-01-2019 10:08am

I think they'll continue with the DC Universe,they just need to take a leaf out of the Marvel book and build the characters they have now before JL2 in 3-4 years.

Realistically every actor they have playing each character so far is spot on besides Aflleck. I think Caville will remain onboard.

Be interesting to see if they do Flashpoint how it will setup the current cast list

Drumpot · 09-01-2019 10:15am

IncognitoMan wrote: »

Aquaman just became the highest grossing film of the DCEU, on course to break a billion, made more than 15 of the 20 MCU movies or something crazy.

I think they'll plough on to be honest. Could be a while before we see Batman or Superman again though and JL2 is way way off, if it ever gets made.

Just shows what audience want is not necessarily quality. MOS and BvS were IMO better movies then Aquaman and the awful JL and yet both seemed to of been generally received better! The mind boggles....

pixelburp · 09-01-2019 10:37am

Yeah, I'm struggling to rationalise the success of Aquaman. But hey, as with everything else DC/WB might have accidentally stumbled on the right course of action in the end with these solo films, rather than Justice League's crowbar approach.

Penn · 09-01-2019 11:07am

Drumpot wrote: »

Just shows what audience want is not necessarily quality. MOS and BvS were IMO better movies then Aquaman and the awful JL and yet both seemed to of been generally received better! The mind boggles....

I think it's that while Aquaman and JL were average and okay, in MoS and BvS the good was great and the bad was really really bad (well, more BvS than MoS).

Aquaman and JL are bland and don't do anything particularly great or wonderful, but BvS to a lot of people just got so many things completely wrong that the really great bits of it weren't enough to save it. Plus Wonder Woman may have helped reinvigorate people's interest in the DCEU films too and acted as a tipping point for people to give the DCEU another shot.

Drumpot · 09-01-2019 11:17am

Penn wrote: »

I think it's that while Aquaman and JL were average and okay, in MoS and BvS the good was great and the bad was really really bad (well, more BvS than MoS).

Aquaman and JL are bland and don't do anything particularly great or wonderful, but BvS to a lot of people just got so many things completely wrong that the really great bits of it weren't enough to save it. Plus Wonder Woman may have helped reinvigorate people's interest in the DCEU films too and acted as a tipping point for people to give the DCEU another shot.

Bearing it mind I concede this is all subjective analysis but I wouldn’t agree with the BvS narrative because many of the things people hated (like “Martha” )were actually not objectivity bad elements. Just unpopular. I think that happens a lot in franchises where people get upset about certain aspects of a movie that’s less about the objective entertainment, more about fitting in with what they expect. I think the extended version of BvS fixed certainly the Lex Luther master plan questions and made for a more interesting villian IMO.

I enjoy marvel and some (Snyder) DC movies for what they give. The success of WW was clearly because it copied and pasted a lot of the marvel template that film goers enjoy. So now we are gonna get watered down DC stuff and rinse repeat from marvel. I was really wanting to see where the very different Snyder movies might go but clearly in the minority on that. Now we will get marvel and watered down marvel movies with DC characters.

Baggly · 09-01-2019 11:24am

I liked Snyders stuff. His rumoured plans for JL and for further movies sounded bang on to me (if true).

Its a shame it didnt work out, but c'est la vie.

Im in the camp that liked MOS & BvS though. JL was meh. Some good moments, but not something id rush back to watch. WW though was a bit meh as well for me. Far too formulaic. It had some really good moments, but seemed awfully rushed to me on rewatch there over Xmas.

Regardless, a new Batman in would be great.....it would be amazing if they could do it within the rationale of the current DCEU (Batfleck gets killed off and a new Batman rises) but any replacement and refresh of the character would be welcome. Feel for Affleck as he obviously cares about the source material and character, but the whole project hasnt worked out for him in terms of the structures placed around him to make the movies.

Flashpoint would be a good way of getting a new Batman in actually.

Kirby · 09-01-2019 3:14pm

If they have any sense they will stay a million miles away from anything flashpoint related. Time travel is the limit of the average movie goers acceptance of sci-fi. The moment you start talking about alternate dimensions, you will lose them.

And they don't need it to create a new batman. Batfleck dies and somebody else takes up the mantle. There, done. No need for anything more complicated.

Baggly · 09-01-2019 3:18pm

Kirby wrote:

If they have any sense they will stay a million miles away from anything flashpoint related. Time travel is the limit of the average movie goers acceptance of sci-fi. The moment you start talking about alternate dimensions, you will lose them.

Nah just do a back to the future on it but when they fix the present, a few things a different.

Do the chalkboard explanation that doc brown did and you are laughing.

The flash tv show did it well actually.

pixelburp · 09-01-2019 3:22pm

What I'd really love, is if the movies did more with the whole 'Greatest Detective' monicker Batman has; the Nolan films did touch on this with a few instances of Wayne using his smarts to investigate crime scenes, but it is effectively non-existent in the DCEU. Quite the opposite in fact: Batman's a rich vigilante thug, who brands(!) criminals and mounts machine guns on his car.

What I fear now, given they keep taking all the wrong lessons, is that Aquaman tells WB to make this new Batman a big, bold CGI adventure. I'm pouring even more hope and optimism into this Joker film, because if it turns out to be good, grounded AND a money-spinner, it might persuade the suits to let Batman be a detective again.

Kirby · 09-01-2019 3:31pm

Pter wrote: »

Nah just do a back to the future on it but when they fix the present, a few things a different.

Do the chalkboard explanation that doc brown did and you are laughing.

The flash tv show did it well actually.

Yes but the point being there is no NEED for it. It's part of the batman folklore already that somebody will take his place with the whole robin/nightwing thing. Why complicate it with the time travel at all? There is a ready-made explanation already in the canon that the audience will accept.

And we disagree strongly on how the flash tv show performed flashpoint. That show is a total mess with cardboard cutout characters, childish writing and thats not even mentioning the hamfisted alternate earth storylines. The Flash has consistently lost viewers every season and the only reason why its still on the air is that it's numbers are acceptable for a small time network like the CW....and also because its part of CW's universe with Arrow and Supergirl.

This is not something the head honcho's will want to emulate.

Baggly · 09-01-2019 4:54pm

Happy to agree to disagree.

Im not suggesting they replicate the Flash TV show verbatim, but for a limited scope show, they did a decent job. I dont have high expectations of that show, which is maybe why i enjoy it.

With regards to the folklore; committing to Nightwing / Robin taking over would mean they introduce that character and have them take over within the same movie. As mad as it sounds, a flashpoint rewrite is 'simpler' to pull off vs creating a new Batman alongside doing the death of Batfleck correctly.

In addition to that, if you are going off the source material, the heir to the throne hasn't actually stayed in the throne for an extended period of time, with Bruce always returning. Now if we are talking real world and ousting Ben Affleck, you cant count on him eventually coming back, which means you are committing to going off canon......which has issues itself as have seen with the DCEU.

Look as we have both said we can agree to disagree. I just think it would be possible to do and with the right director and overall EU direction, could be decent to refresh part of the DCEU.

Cotts72 · 09-01-2019 5:01pm

I just don't think you can have a Batman movie without Bruce Wayne as Batman..

justinbellford · 09-01-2019 7:43pm

pixelburp wrote: »

What I'd really love, is if the movies did more with the whole 'Greatest Detective' monicker Batman has; the Nolan films did touch on this with a few instances of Wayne using his smarts to investigate crime scenes, but it is effectively non-existent in the DCEU.

This is what I have been wanting for years. I would love to see something along the lines of the Hush story line, or even a riff on what they did in the Arkham series with Clayface.

Something like Bruce being framed for crimes/murders and trying to prove his innocence during the day and solving the mystery as Batman at night.

w/s/p/c/ · 31-01-2019 10:55am

Read this morning that "The Batman" is slated for release in 2021.

Ben Affleck will not be playing Batman, a younger version of the character will appear in the film (so another reboot and hopefully we don't see Martha and Thomas Wayne get killed for the 457th time on screen).

Disappointed as I thought he played the role well (despite how poor the movies his version of the character appeared in were). Enjoyed Jeremy Irons as Alfred too, wonder will the keep him like Michael Gough was kept in the 80's/90's movies.

Wonder who will be lined up to don the cowl and cape?

Baggly · 31-01-2019 10:57am

I saw quotes from the director saying its going to be a 'Noir' take on the character and focus more on him being the worlds greatest detective. I think that's a good idea. Its not an aspect of the character that has been elaborated on much in the movies thusfar. Especially the recent ones, where Batman has just been a rich, well equipped brawler.

Sad Professor · 31-01-2019 1:49pm

I'm pretty sure the development of every new Batman film begins with the director saying "he's going to be more of a detective in this" and yet somehow it never really happens.

Baggly · 31-01-2019 1:51pm

Sad Professor wrote:

I'm pretty sure the development of every new Batman film begins with the director saying "he's going to be more of a detective in this" and yet somehow it never really happens.

That sounds about right tbh

pixelburp · 31-01-2019 1:59pm

Haha yeah, there's no way in hell any modern Blockbuster oriented studio is going to let a Superhero film 'just' be a Detective Noir flick. Oh sure, the script might start that way but a few phantom rewrites later & you got sky-lasers all over the climax.

Maybe Chris Nolan had the clout to force his own vision of what amounted to a big-budget crime thriller, but with the greatest respect to Matt Reeves - he's no Chris Nolan.

I'd read that Joker film was being rewritten while they were shooting, and while that's not in of itself a sign of a nervy studio, I still await that post test-screening, panicked reshoot.

Baggly · 31-01-2019 4:22pm

I liked what he did with the Planet of the Apes films. It will come down to how he manages and/or resists studio interference alright.

Drumpot · 31-01-2019 4:26pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Haha yeah, there's no way in hell any modern Blockbuster oriented studio is going to let a Superhero film 'just' be a Detective Noir flick. Oh sure, the script might start that way but a few phantom rewrites later & you got sky-lasers all over the climax.

Maybe Chris Nolan had the clout to force his own vision of what amounted to a big-budget crime thriller, but with the greatest respect to Matt Reeves - he's no Chris Nolan.

I'd read that Joker film was being rewritten while they were shooting, and while that's not in of itself a sign of a nervy studio, I still await that post test-screening, panicked reshoot.

Pter wrote: »

I liked what he did with the Planet of the Apes films. It will come down to how he manages and/or resists studio interference alright.

Considering the complete cluster f**k they made of JL and the shockening fact that it got more positive reviews then MOS and BvS, my hope is that whatever they do they don't do what they are probably going to do . .

My only hope is the Joker is unique , dark and very successful. Nolan's Batman was a work of art and unique in that its a completely different kind of movie to the conveyor belt of Marvel cookie cut movies. Don't get me wrong, I like Marvel movies but desperately wanted to see DC do something different and liked what they tried under Snyder.

WW was effectively a marvel movie copy, hence its popularity.

HandsomeBob · 31-01-2019 6:22pm

Drumpot wrote: »

Considering the complete cluster f**k they made of JL and the shockening fact that it got more positive reviews then MOS and BvS, my hope is that whatever they do they don't do what they are probably going to do . .

My only hope is the Joker is unique , dark and very successful. Nolan's Batman was a work of art and unique in that its a completely different kind of movie to the conveyor belt of Marvel cookie cut movies. Don't get me wrong, I like Marvel movies but desperately wanted to see DC do something different and liked what they tried under Snyder.

WW was effectively a marvel movie copy, hence its popularity.

Yes WB need to go back to doing their own thing and not worry about appeasing the average dope who only wants one thing from the genre.

Looking forward to this and Joker. No interest in what the DCEU has become and I mean that literally, as in I walked out of Aquaman I'm disgust.

Drumpot · 31-01-2019 6:54pm

HandsomeBob wrote: »

Yes WB need to go back to doing their own thing and not worry about appeasing the average dope who only wants one thing from the genre.

Looking forward to this and Joker. No interest in what the DCEU has become and I mean that literally, as in I walked out of Aquaman I'm disgust.

Aquaman confirmed my concerns. It was very poor movie and has been their most successful! I’d say the WB motto at this stage is “make movies sh*tter”.

TerrorFirmer · 02-02-2019 9:10am

Aquaman was 'The Room' of comic book movies, so bad it's actually entertaining, but nonetheless just utterly horrible in every way. How it got better reviews than BvS and some others is beyond me.

The only genuinely solid thing in the DCEU at this point is probably Titans on TV, and even though I thought Wonder Woman was pretty average, it's still solid to be fair.

I feel bad for Affleck, one of the better Batman portrayals (in BvS in any case) but somewhat lost in the negative reaction to the films.

JP Liz V1 · 03-02-2019 11:37pm

Richard Madden already rumoured for the role, he is linked to everything

pixelburp · 03-02-2019 11:42pm

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Richard Madden already rumoured for the role, he is linked to everything

Preusmably his agent trying desperately to give him that post Game of Thrones career bump. Though he's what... 3, 4 years off the show? For all the series' relative fame, the acting ability of much of its cast was always pretty flakey IMO. Madden wasn't the worst but still floated around the "smell the fart" territory of emoting.

JP Liz V1 · 03-02-2019 11:49pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Preusmably his agent trying desperately to give him that post Game of Thrones career bump. Though he's what... 3, 4 years off the show? For all the series' relative fame, the acting ability of much of its cast was always pretty flakey IMO. Madden wasn't the worst but still floated around the "smell the fart" territory of emoting.

He is hot more from Bodyguard than Game of Thrones at the moment

The Batman (Matt Reeves) ***spoilers from post 1030***

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The Batman (Matt Reeves) spoilers from post 1030