Justice League Spoilers from post 980 onward

Lithium93_ · 21-05-2020 5:54pm

Has anyone watched the animated Justice League Dark: Apokolips War? The plot in it, was apparently the idea for what Snyder had in mind for his JL trilogy.

Certainly gives the Knightmare & The Flash appearing to Bruce via the Speed Force in BvS, a bit more weight and meaning.

Chris_Heilong · 22-05-2020 1:20am

Fantastic news, Zack is a visionary and it was so disheartening how different JL was to were we had been going, I look forward to this, it will have the same basic backbone story wise but will be more inline with what had come before IMO.

The White Wolf · 22-05-2020 10:04am

The Phantom Pain wrote: »

I'm pre-cringing at people who really wanted this cut only to find out it's the same trash Snyder gave us in his previous films. People are not preparing for the fact that this cut might be terrible. Yeah, it might be better than the theatrical cut but people need to remember that WB only decided to hack away at it because the original cut was bad. Studios always know when they have a stinker on their hands hence late review embargoes and reshoots.

Bad, or they were afraid that it didn't cater enough to the casual audience used to a certain formula. HBOMax could end up being the perfect home.

There are plenty of people who have problems with Snyder's DCEU but would have much, much, preferred that he got to finish it instead of the hatchet job that was done on Justice League.

Can anyone say hand on heart they enjoyed that film? All I've seen, at best, is that it was an improvement.

I wasn't even all that enamoured with the UC of BvS but I'm looking forward to seeing this, as based on leaks it really is a different beast altogether. Could be terrible, but fascinating to see either way.

I really don't get all the snark towards fans as it really does come across as bitter for no reason. All credit to the fans that pushed for it as it's a win for fans everywhere in a way.

Lithium93_ · 22-05-2020 10:21am

The White Wolf wrote: »

Bad, or they were afraid that it didn't cater enough to the casual audience used to a certain formula. HBOMax could end up being the perfect home.

There are plenty of people who have problems with Snyder's DCEU but would have much, much, preferred that he got to finish it instead of the hatchet job that was done on Justice League.

Can anyone say hand on heart they enjoyed that film? All I've seen, at best, is that it was an improvement.

I wasn't even all that enamoured with the UC of BvS but I'm looking forward to seeing this, as based on leaks it really is a different beast altogether. Could be terrible, but fascinating to see either way.

I really don't get all the snark towards fans as it really does come across as bitter for no reason. All credit to the fans that pushed for it as it's a win for fans everywhere in a way.

I sort of enjoyed it, but it left me feeling flat, like this definitely needs more fleshing out.

Oafley Jones · 22-05-2020 10:52am

Was the demand for a Synder cut an actual thing (acknowledging that there are some Synder fans) or one of these internet jokes that's just gone too far e.g. Snakes on a Plane.

Who knows? Maybe he'll make it one from three.

Drumpot · 22-05-2020 11:27am

The White Wolf wrote: »

Bad, or they were afraid that it didn't cater enough to the casual audience used to a certain formula. HBOMax could end up being the perfect home.

There are plenty of people who have problems with Snyder's DCEU but would have much, much, preferred that he got to finish it instead of the hatchet job that was done on Justice League.

Can anyone say hand on heart they enjoyed that film? All I've seen, at best, is that it was an improvement.

I wasn't even all that enamoured with the UC of BvS but I'm looking forward to seeing this, as based on leaks it really is a different beast altogether. Could be terrible, but fascinating to see either way.

I really don't get all the snark towards fans as it really does come across as bitter for no reason. All credit to the fans that pushed for it as it's a win for fans everywhere in a way.

This is exactly it, it didn’t cater to the audience. The success of WW, Aquaman and Shazaam were all Mainly because they could of slotted into the marvel universe and nobody would of noticed otherwise.

Some people really do take a disliking to Snyder’s movies. I have a soft spot for them and usually enjoy what he does. The Watchmen is one of my favorite movies. I really enjoyed MOS and BvS got better the more I watched it.

You don’t have to choose marvel or DC, I enjoy both, but loved the Very different flavor and tone in Snyder’s movies. Im really looking forward to seeing what his movie will be like. If you think about it, it’s a no brainer throwing 30 Million at a 300 Million Movie that Will effectively be a new 330mil movie that can only be watched on a sub service platform they are trying to build. I think they will easily make their 30m back And if it is actually a success it could reboot the franchise for nothing.

CramCycle · 22-05-2020 11:49am

Never understood the hate for MoS, bar that ridiculously long fight, it was a pretty decent movie IMO. BvS could have been good, but the second half again went a bit of the rails and really didn't fit in well with MoS in the tone of Clark IMO. It wasn't terrible but not as good as MoS.

I don't but that his JL cut was or would be worse than Whedons. Whedon took the money and tried to Disnify/Marvel it ASAP because that's what someone thought the world wanted. I think if whedon or Snyder had gotten full control from the start, either product would have been better. Joss was finishing a project that wasn't his and he simply can't do that well, and Snyder clearly didn't get what he wanted either. Not saying either would be great but better than what we got hopefully.

It was poor for a variety of reasons but had moments of good. The visual effects in the end of the movie were as bad as the pre release of Wolverine. Marvel polish theirs to perfection and in the rare cases they miss it, it is really noticeable and you realise how much they rely on gloss rather than story.

Anyway, not expecting great things, but I'll watch it

Minime2.5 · 22-05-2020 3:36pm

The Phantom Pain wrote: »

I'm pre-cringing at people who really wanted this cut only to find out it's the same trash Snyder gave us in his previous films. People are not preparing for the fact that this cut might be terrible. Yeah, it might be better than the theatrical cut but people need to remember that WB only decided to hack away at it because the original cut was bad. Studios always know when they have a stinker on their hands hence late review embargoes and reshoots.

Man of Steel wasn't thrash

dublinman1990 · 22-05-2020 10:31pm

I found more stuff from BvS & JL to keep you occupied.

Drumpot · 23-05-2020 1:30pm

The Phantom Pain wrote: »

I feel like people need to stop pretending that the reason why DC films don't work is because we've all been programmed to like Marvel. Anyone who has read the comics know just how tonally and visually accurate those films you mentioned are, especially Aquaman. (I think in James Wan's case, he got a bit too excited and wanted to throw absolutely everything and the kitchen sink because of how cool it would look).

Shazam is about a kid who becomes a superhero...that was always going to have a light tone.

Wonder woman's tone had a balance of light and dark. It's set in word war 1 and a village she saved gets destroyed by poison gas.....

The Joker - a film Warner Brothers rushed out ahead of Wonder Woman - is the most successful of them all. And the darkest.

Clearly "tone" is not the issue. Those films were successful because they have good characters and/or story and were tonally congruent with the characters.

Batman v Superman and MOS were not. Other than being poorly written and badly edited (the former tries to be about 4 movies in one), they tried to turn Superman into Batman which obviously causes problems in a versus film where you're supposed to be establishing how different they are. WB do not like Superman and it shows. This is compounded by the fact that Zack Snyder is not a very good film maker:

I much prefer DC to Marvel overall which is why it pains me that the films aren't as good. DC excel in comics, video games, television and animated television but the films have been quite poor and only recently have got better.

This ignores the fact that WW, Aquaman and Shazam were made exactly like marvel Movies. I’m sorry but they just copied and pasted what works for marvel into DC movies but the majority of people are not comicbook fans so enjoy the comparable feel with marvel. They weren’t successful because they were different to marvel movies they were successful because they were familiar to audiences as most people don’t care about where the stories started (DC or marvel).

The comics themselves being different quality don’t mean much when we are talking about how they have been put on screen. I mean DC movies (venom included - although that’s been a bit Bolder the the other 3) are even following the marvel model of having clips of next movies in the credits. Snyder being different doesn’t mean his movies are good or better, but they were distinctly different from marvel. The other DC movies are not.

johnny_ultimate · 23-05-2020 1:42pm

I have zero love for the Marvel films, and think 95% of them range from weak to mediocre. Still, there’s no superhero film I’ve disliked quite as much as Man of Steel (although Watchmen is weak too, mainly for being a loyal adaptation that somehow still fails - the TV show was how it should be done).

MoS such a preposterous, self-important and hilariously overwrought work that it basically made me swear off bothering with Snyder’s films again. Of course, that means I’m in no place to comment on BvS or JL, so I won’t. But having seen most of his prior films, I’m happy to say he’s an absolutely distinctive director whose style and storytelling sensibilities I find completely unappealing.

I’m genuinely glad some fans are getting the film they want, and hopefully it satisfies them. Equally, the prospect of Snyder going full Snyder is not exactly the most appealing for myself and I’m sure others who’ve disliked his work in the past. For me, the Marvel house style or the Snyder style are equally unappealing, even if I have general respect for Snyder if nothing else being an auteur in such a commercial space. Just doesn’t mean I actually like what he puts out :pac:

Homelander · 23-05-2020 1:56pm

The Phantom Pain wrote: »

I feel like people need to stop pretending that the reason why DC films don't work is because we've all been programmed to like Marvel.

No-one claimed that, even in the post you quoted. The issue is that the movies themselves lost their own identity because they tried to emulate what made Marvel so good, without having the solid base from which Marvel had been working from.

BvS and MOS had a distinct identity that set them apart from their Marvel counterparts. What came later doesn't as they attempted to simply clone what made Marvel so successful.

Justice League and Suicide Squad in particular were not originally intended to be their eventual end product and it shows badly. Justice League didn't disappoint me so much as predictably failed to impress, but Suicide Squad was god awful and nothing whatsoever like what the film was built up to be.

There's no point claiming that certain films were successful because they gelled with the characters they're based on, when 90% of mainstream/casual audiences will never have read the comics, regardless of whether they're DC, Marvel or otherwise.

Personally I thought Justice League, Suicide Squad and Aquaman were utter turds in a)their own right and b) in comparison to BvS and MOS but people seem divided on that.

And I do greatly enjoy pretty much all the Marvel films except maybe Captain Marvel, thought MOS, BvS and Wonder Woman are the only decent DC ones to date.

But DC haven't produced a single movie in this franchise thus far that's even within an asses roar of the Marvel greats like Iron Man, Ragnarok, Winter Soldier, Civil War, Infinity War/Endgame, etc.

Joker was excellent but it was a different, low-key project that was allowed greater freedom because it was lower risk and they had already seen how their attempt to emulate Marvel's shared universe was tanking.

I have high hopes for the new Batman movie.

Drumpot · 23-05-2020 2:30pm

Homelander wrote: »

No-one claimed that, even in the post you quoted. The issue is that the movies themselves lost their own identity because they tried to emulate what made Marvel so good, without having the solid base from which Marvel had been working from.

BvS and MOS had a distinct identity that set them apart from their Marvel counterparts. What came later doesn't as they attempted to simply clone what made Marvel so successful.

Justice League and Suicide Squad in particular were not originally intended to be their eventual end product and it shows badly. Justice League didn't disappoint me so much as predictably failed to impress, but Suicide Squad was god awful and nothing whatsoever like what the film was built up to be.

There's no point claiming that certain films were successful because they gelled with the characters they're based on, when 90% of mainstream/casual audiences will never have read the comics, regardless of whether they're DC, Marvel or otherwise.

Personally I thought Justice League, Suicide Squad and Aquaman were utter turds in a)their own right and b) in comparison to BvS and MOS but people seem divided on that.

And I do greatly enjoy pretty much all the Marvel films except maybe Captain Marvel, thought MOS, BvS and Wonder Woman are the only decent DC ones to date.

But DC haven't produced a single movie in this franchise thus far that's even within an asses roar of the Marvel greats like Iron Man, Ragnarok, Winter Soldier, Civil War, Infinity War/Endgame, etc.

Joker was excellent but it was a different, low-key project that was allowed greater freedom because it was lower risk and they had already seen how their attempt to emulate Marvel's shared universe was tanking.

I have high hopes for the new Batman movie.

I think captain marvels powers are comparable with superman in that it’s hard to make a decent movie where they are actually in danger. Look at her just flying through most of Thanos Ships in EG, practically obliterating his army single handedly, very much like the way Superman just arrived in JL to discard steppanwolf practically on his own, it’s ridiculous over powering.

This seems to be the fundamental issues with superman movies, he’s just too strong and his weakness have been limited to Kryptonite, humans or fellow Kryptonians. Superman’s love for humanity (Certainly in movies) regularly seems to be his biggest weakness.

For Snyder I think what’s made it harder for him is he didn’t get to work on characters so he had been shoe horning in a lot. Marvel built up their characters and Snyder had to shoe horn then in a very short period of time. Also by that time Marvel had perfected exactly what audiences like so Snyder’s much darker , grittier movies weren’t resonating with an audience that generally want more marvel kind of movies which DC reverted to with WW.

The White Wolf · 23-05-2020 2:38pm

Infinity War is the pinnacle of what a kid would of dreamed of seeing a comic book brought to life. That's what it was for me and it pains me to say Justice League falls so woefully short of that standard.

I don't expect SC to touch it, but at the very least I would hope for a satisfying conclusion to a frustrating set of films that showed glimpses of greatness.

As pointed out above Snyder worst crime I'm his series was his inability to reign himself in and understand a character at their core. He doesn't have to compromise his vision to do that and I blame him equally for Cavill's struggle in the role of Superman.

Nolan as a comparison changed characters to realise his vision but they still remained the same character more or less that they were in the comic books.

Agent Coulson · 23-05-2020 2:44pm

With HBO Max making the Green Lantern series I wonder will he add Green Lantern to the cut so they can spin the series off it.

Penn · 23-05-2020 2:46pm

Drumpot wrote: »

For Snyder I think what’s made it harder for him is he didn’t get to work on characters. Marvel built up their characters and Snyder had to shoe horn then in a very short period of time.

That was definitely a big issue, in both JL and BvS. BvS contains elements of The Dark Knight Returns, The Death of Superman and Batman: A Death in the Family (the allusion to Robin's death by the Joker).

But none of it had been earned, because this was our first or second time seeing these characters. They threw us into stories that worked because of what we know of the journeys the characters had already been on and the relationships they had, but we never got that with this version of the characters. Batman and Superman fighting in TDKR works because of the shared history and relationship of the characters, whereas here they had maybe three scenes together first. Death of Superman works because of how beloved Superman was, whereas here he was hated by half the people anyway. I don't know how much of it is Snyder not getting to work on characters, and how much of it is just he wanted to skip to the end as if he already had.

Then BvS also had to be the introductory movie for Justice League, Wonder Woman, Lex Luthor, Darkseid and Batman himself.

I didn't hold out a lot of hope for Justice League anyway, as much as I wanted it to be great (because DC shouldn't try to emulate the Marvel formula, they should try do their own thing and their own style of films). I get that JL ended up being largely a mess due to the whole situation with Snyder's family, and Joss Whedon finishing it off (as big a fan of Whedon as I am, he wasn't a great choice for this). But to be honest, I still don't hold out much hope for the Snyder Cut. I hope it's great, just like I did with the original, but I still wouldn't have a lot of faith in Snyder.

nix · 23-05-2020 3:07pm

I liked MoS but not understanding the BvS praise, it was poop and thats even before ya get to the Doomsday besmirchment :mad::rolleyes:

Is there a cut of BvS that makes it much better? I've only watched it in the cinema..

Penn · 23-05-2020 3:17pm

nix wrote: »

I liked MoS but not understanding the BvS praise, it was poop and thats even before ya get to the Doomsday besmirchment :mad::rolleyes:

Is there a cut of BvS that makes it much better? I've only watched it in the cinema..

Some say the Ultimate Edition of it made it better. Personally I felt it only made it longer.

The White Wolf · 23-05-2020 3:24pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYvD3fXslnI

Have to say this is entertaining, shows up the likes of Campea and Collider for what they are.

Agent Coulson · 23-05-2020 5:47pm

Every single one of them will be kissing his ass now for interviews etc till its released.

Lithium93_ · 23-05-2020 5:59pm

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Every single one of them will be kissing his ass now for interviews etc till its released.

I can only imagine the back pedalling those in the video above were doing/probably are doing, when the news broke on Wednesday.

The White Wolf · 23-05-2020 6:27pm

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Every single one of them will be kissing his ass now for interviews etc till its released.

Well sad to say some, such as Collider, are already doubling down on their stupidity. Criticising WB and HBO for rewarding "toxic" fans.

The White Wolf · 23-05-2020 9:24pm

Yes Snyder comes across as quite strange and not shy about he views himself. He undeniably has his strengths such as with casting and visuals, but he believes himself to be smarter than he is I think. What he views as "realness" in his characters can be quite tone deaf.

The DCAU's Justice League War's portrayal of Batman is basically the DCEU Batman only done with restraint and likeability.

kerplun k · 02-06-2020 12:26am

Justice League: The Whedon Cut. is on Netflix, so I threw it on for the first time since watching it in the cinema. WTF were they thinking with that horrible, horrible CGI opening scene. Talk about setting yourself up for failure.

HBO need to do a full on documentary about the drama that went on here. If Disney can give us an 8 episode documentary series on The Mandlorian, HBO can give us ton of content on the behind scenes of justice league. They’ve paid a ton of money for this new cut, so they might as well milk it for all that it’s worth.

I reckon the only thing stopping this from airing is that some of higher ups that contributed to the sheer incompetencies of this unholy mess are still with WB, and don’t want their idiocy exposed

IrishJedi75 · 03-06-2020 12:18am

Love Snyders DC films.Man Of Steel is the greatest Superman film ever made.

BVS ( Ultimate cut ) is amazing as well and i cant wait for the Snyder cut.

Agent Coulson · 18-06-2020 6:52pm

Teaser

Justice League **Spoilers from post 980 onward**

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Justice League Spoilers from post 980 onward