What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Ash.J.Williams · 21-06-2021 1:59pm

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

I use to travel to the uk in the 80 and 90s and got treated sometime like some suspected terrorist at customs on a couple of occassions, because i was irish

got more than my fair share of the mick treatment whilst in the uk.

It did not bother me, and some of it by your logic was racist ...since it was aimed at where I had come from, but i dont see the brits as racist....oh wait..is using the term brits allowed or it that racist too as shortening a country name is deemed racist.

Point is if you want to find racism you will find it. I genuinely believe we are possibly one of the least racist nations on Earth.
Unlike our former "white neighbours" of the uk, france, holland, Belgium etc we did not have a slave trade, we did not rape africa either.

In fact we Irish were the victims in some cases of the white slave trade, you dont see me as an Irishman demanding reparations for what happened to my ancestors.

Sick of do gooders trying to fight this war on white people where the term "racist" is thrown around with complete abandonment.

I've seen that behavior in the uk even to their own, growing up i looked at british tv believing it to be inclusive and multicultural , in fact i envied how diverse british people are, but when i went over and saw the internal racism i was shocked.

As for the paddywackery in the uk i'd nearly feel sorry for those people they're not the sharpest

Strumms · 21-06-2021 2:06pm

Here is a mad stat...

Population of Ireland

2000 : 3.79 million

2020 : 4.97 million

Is 20 years the population has grown by 1.8 million.. almost a million people, a decade. A 31.13% population increase. The main driver of this is people coming here to live by seeking and being granted assistance and asylum.

The people arriving are putting a strain on the country, it’s health services, it’s financial resources....

Hospital waiting lists are at an all time high.. although the new arrivals don’t have to wait as they have a medical card... my parents in their 80’s now and whom both have medical conditions, lost their medical cards..

WrenBoy · 21-06-2021 2:12pm

Strumms wrote: »

Here is a mad stat...

Population of Ireland

2000 : 3.79 million

2020 : 4.97 million

Is 20 years the population has grown by 1.8 million.. almost a million people, a decade. A 31.13% population increase. The main driver of this is people coming here to live by seeking and being granted assistance and asylum.

The people arriving are putting a strain on the country, it’s health services, it’s financial resources....

Hospital waiting lists are at an all time high.. although the new arrivals don’t have to wait as they have a medical card... my parents in their 80’s now and whom both have medical conditions, lost their medical cards..

Yes, but are you aware your parents are responsible for the historical crimes against everyone who isn't white, so when you think about it being failed by the health services after a lifetime of paying into the system is an example of their Privilege.

Bobblehats · 21-06-2021 2:16pm

Strumms wrote: »

Hospital waiting lists are at an all time high.. although the new arrivals don’t have to wait as they have a medical card... my parents in their 80’s now and whom both have medical conditions, lost their medical cards..

That’s what my father in law alluded to. Never a complaint out of this fella, never an utterance he still works the sites going on 70 but he recently had to have cancer treatment and it kept getting deferred ~ so this one occasion something about foreigners; grumble grumble but didn’t press him on it it’s done.

Gradius · 21-06-2021 2:17pm

WrenBoy wrote: »

Yes, but are you aware your parents are responsible for the historical crimes against everyone who isn't white, so when you think about it being failed by the health services after a lifetime of paying into the system is an example of their Privilege.

It's all smoke and mirrors, the whole shebang. There's no ethics behind this, there's no righteousness, there's no history, there's no justification. It's all money behind this, and nowt else. A minute amount of people raking it in. From the other thread...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-18519395.amp

It's all about money. Former arse of Goldman Sachs and "big oil", ends up as UN migration chief.

Now there's a natural fit, not suspect at all

"We must undermine European homogeneity" he stated. Yes, in order to make more money, by breaking the back of any unified resistance to manipulators.

Sneaky, wealthy scumbags make money hand over fist through immigration and the fragmentation of society.

Then, appealing to soft-brains on an emotional level present it as some sort of ethical argument. They take the ball and run with it, basking in the glory of faux-righteousness while their own lives are directly dis-improved, and 99% of those around them.

This BBC crap is merely another micro offshoot of the central problem.

Cynical, cynical, cynical.

And 100% the truth

Strumms · 21-06-2021 2:45pm

zom wrote: »

I don't mind my pride and respect - not going to fight system that demonizing and discriminate people like me, cant see a chance to win this war. But my concerns are that this is going in wrong direction despite all best intentions and we are going to loose to more dynamic nations in Asia or even Africa at some stage. "Our" politicians and media seems not to give fox about real serious issues focused on "pride" and "equality" more than "development", "growth" or "safety".

If we take aside one billion to grow our economy, invest in growth and improve our health services post covid....you just know there would be some rabble calling for that money to be used on overseas aid and to install and purchase more facilities and housing opportunities for those seeking asylum.

Justin Credible Darts · 21-06-2021 2:58pm

bubblypop wrote: »

Lol!
Treating people differently because of their country of origin is racist.
It doesn't matter whether you were personally bothered by it or not.

If course we didn't have a slave trade! We didn't even rule ourselves.....

well done on completely missing the point.

I had no problem with the brits being suspicious of Irish people when the IRA were still going, just like i would expect them to be wary of arabs due to arab terrorism.

I got the piss ripped out of me, and I do the same to my English buddies, its not racism because there is no hatred, or bitterness in it, there is no hidden agenda, its just winding people up, and if some english stranger thought of me as some "thick mick" I would be more annoyed about being thought of as thick, the mick part meant nothing.

My wife's sister and husband came over from the uk once, and the wifes husband who is so black is almost blue told me that Irish people were an ugly race, he laughed when I agreed with him, he is entitled to his opinion and I said it was okay for him with skin like his he could cover up all the blemishes, and bags under his eyes, and shaving his head meant hiding the grey hair, but he was no oil paintings himself with his big nose and thick lips,. and he laughed at that. we can say these things cos we are really close.
You could argue we both were racist, but neither of us took offence yet our wives acted like we had done something awful as they have been conditioned to believe you cannot say certain things.

That to me is sad.

KevRossi · 21-06-2021 3:14pm

Multi-culturalism not going too well in South Africa. This is a good report on the riots against migrants in 2008 where 62 people were murdered. I often got this tension when I lived in Africa, there was usually either inter-ethnic tensions or ones based on nationality; Burkinabe's in Cote d'Ivoire, Ghanians in Nigeria or whatever. The concept that's peddled to us here that Africa is somehow one big homogenous entity is entirely false.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/21/documenting-violence-against-migrants-in-south-africa-a-photo-essay

Annasopra · 21-06-2021 3:31pm

Strumms wrote: »

Here is a mad stat...

Population of Ireland

2000 : 3.79 million

2020 : 4.97 million

Is 20 years the population has grown by 1.8 million.. almost a million people, a decade. A 31.13% population increase. The main driver of this is people coming here to live by seeking and being granted assistance and asylum.

The people arriving are putting a strain on the country, it’s health services, it’s financial resources....

Hospital waiting lists are at an all time high.. although the new arrivals don’t have to wait as they have a medical card... my parents in their 80’s now and whom both have medical conditions, lost their medical cards..

4.97-3.79 = 1.18. That is not 1.8 million and not almost a million a decade.

Your figures dont add up and the idea that the main increase in population growth is asylum seekers is frankly drivel. In fact in 2019 and in 2020 roughly one third of the immigrants (roughly 30,000 people) were returning Irish nationals.

[Deleted User] · 21-06-2021 3:38pm

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

well done on completely missing the point.

.

Right back at ya!
Nobody ever said that friends slagging each other is racist.
Being treated differently because of your nationality is racist. Being abused because of your nationality is racist.
Friends slagging friends is hardly racist.

But I see your issue now ......

Gradius · 21-06-2021 3:50pm

Annasopra wrote: »

4.97-3.79 = 1.18. That is not 1.8 million and not almost a million a decade.

Your figures dont add up and the idea that the main increase in population growth is asylum seekers is frankly drivel. In fact in 2019 and in 2020 roughly one third of the immigrants (roughly 30,000 people) were returning Irish nationals.

So the gigantic number is actually a smaller, gigantic number.

And "Irish national" means practically nothing.

In the last few meetings with the ESRI and CSO even they have brought up the obvious, that "Irish national" is near meaningless now and that they need to go much deeper.

One case in point. Go to the 29 minute mark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r08oHnMRiPQ

Ash.J.Williams · 21-06-2021 5:13pm

Strumms wrote: »

Here is a mad stat...

Population of Ireland

2000 : 3.79 million

2020 : 4.97 million

Is 20 years the population has grown by 1.8 million.. almost a million people, a decade. A 31.13% population increase. The main driver of this is people coming here to live by seeking and being granted assistance and asylum.

The people arriving are putting a strain on the country, it’s health services, it’s financial resources....

Hospital waiting lists are at an all time high.. although the new arrivals don’t have to wait as they have a medical card... my parents in their 80’s now and whom both have medical conditions, lost their medical cards..

a good bunch of those 1.8 million are regular people adding to our financial resources

Justin Credible Darts · 21-06-2021 5:42pm

bubblypop wrote: »

Right back at ya!
Nobody ever said that friends slagging each other is racist.
Being treated differently because of your nationality is racist. Being abused because of your nationality is racist.
Friends slagging friends is hardly racist.

But I see your issue now ......

OK THEN HOW WERE YOU TREATED DIFFERENTLY. ?

My wife and family will tell you they faced no racism except when they were kids of other kids. I have met people who presumed my wife faced racism, and when she said she does not get it, they appear almost disappointed.

all the "non white" people I know and am related to have nothing but good to say about this country, yet certain white people want to try hoodwink and brainwash others into believing racism is rampant everywhere. Its Not !

Why is it almost always white people who are complaining about this, and see this so called racism everywhere ?

Gradius · 21-06-2021 5:55pm

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

a good bunch of those 1.8 million are regular people adding to our financial resources

This kind of thought process must surely be on its last legs by now. For Christ's sake, it's a relic.

"More people = more money for everybody!!!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuVh36vQkSI

The biggest issue in this country, housing, is directly impacted by increasing amounts of people. That's just for starters, no need to go further.

When you refer to "increased resources" what does that even mean? An increase in gdp? Who gives a rats arse about leprechaun economics when the cost of living is going up and up and up for the average person, waiting times for serious issues are getting longer and longer, less facility because every inch of space is being turned into accommodation for investors/vultures and so on?!

[Deleted User] · 21-06-2021 6:02pm

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

OK THEN HOW WERE YOU TREATED DIFFERENTLY. ?

My wife and family will tell you they faced no racism except when they were kids of other kids. I have met people who presumed my wife faced racism, and when she said she does not get it, they appear almost disappointed.
all the "non white" people I know and am related to have nothing but good to say about this country, yet certain white people want to try hoodwink and brainwash others into believing racism is rampant everywhere. Its Not !

Why is it almost always white people who are complaining about this, and see this so called racism everywhere ?

You clearly missed the part where I said I was abused about my country of birth. That is someone going out of their way to insult or abuse me because of where I was born.
That is racist.
They were abusive .
Happy for your wife and their family that they haven't encountered any issues, that doesn't suggest that others do not encounter problems though.

Like I said before, it doesn't bother me in the slightest, But That does not make the intention any less racist, just because I don't care!

Oh, and where do you think the kids that insulted your wife when she was a kid got it? They didn't make it up themselves, they learnt it from someone racist!

Strumms · 21-06-2021 6:05pm

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

a good bunch of those 1.8 million are regular people adding to our financial resources

A percentage yes, the majority, no... the vast increase in our population has not been due to an SOS for skilled labour shortages that needed filling...

An example, I was a public health patient in 2018, the consultant in the Mater wanted me to have an MRI ASAP ... but the waiting list was too long for his liking... he needed the scan as a priority so he referred me to Charter Medical in Smithfield... a state of the art private medical facility... at the cost of a couple of grand...to the state, to the taxpayer... our health services not clogged up, that was available publicly...

I’ve other treatment that was put on the long finger, delayed because of availability... my physiotherapy has been privately paid for...for two years. state physio in the area just doesn’t have the resources...her words...

I spoke with the state physio, her only commitment was to have a six monthly visit and she’d print off exercises...

I’ve been paying a lot of cash for private physio and gym membership....

[Deleted User] · 21-06-2021 6:05pm

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

OK THEN HOW WERE YOU TREATED DIFFERENTLY. ?

My wife and family will tell you they faced no racism except when they were kids of other kids. I have met people who presumed my wife faced racism, and when she said she does not get it, they appear almost disappointed.

all the "non white" people I know and am related to have nothing but good to say about this country, yet certain white people want to try hoodwink and brainwash others into believing racism is rampant everywhere. Its Not !

Why is it almost always white people who are complaining about this, and see this so called racism everywhere ?

There's a lot of people who actually want to create division. In the US racial attitudes have soured dramatically in the last few decades, particularly since Trump.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1687/race-relations.aspx

Justin Credible Darts · 21-06-2021 6:11pm

fvp4 wrote: »

There's a lot of people who actually want to create division. In the US racial attitudes have soured dramatically in the last few decades, particularly since Trump.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1687/race-relations.aspx

It seems that way,

I can only speak for the non Irish i know but they all love this country, but the only people I hear complain about this "racism in ireland" is being done by mostly Irish white people in order to appear woke and instead are creating division.

Yes there are racists in Ireland, but to judge a whole country on the actions of a few is the very definition of racism itself.

Being against Multiculturalism which is proven to not work, is not racism, even though some love to bandy that accusation around when their arguments are ripped to shreds

Sand · 21-06-2021 6:12pm

Annasopra wrote: »

4.97-3.79 = 1.18. That is not 1.8 million and not almost a million a decade.

Your figures dont add up and the idea that the main increase in population growth is asylum seekers is frankly drivel. In fact in 2019 and in 2020 roughly one third of the immigrants (roughly 30,000 people) were returning Irish nationals.

The 1.8 is clearly a typo, with 1.18 intended. As stated by the initial post your are quoting, 1.18 million is 31.13% of 3.79 million and that is clearly dramatic population growth in just 20 years with a crippling economic cataclysm in the middle of it. Of course resources and systems are going to be under massive strain when people are flooding in to take advantage of them.

The latest burden being placed on us is this madcap scheme to buy a house for every asylum seeker who arrives on our shores. No thought at all given to what that is going to mean for Irish people trying to buy a home or indeed the impact to the environment or peoples quality of life as they are increasingly forced to move further and further away from their work.

Strumms · 21-06-2021 6:20pm

bubblypop wrote: »

Right back at ya!
Nobody ever said that friends slagging each other is racist.
Being treated differently because of your nationality is racist. Being abused because of your nationality is racist.
Friends slagging friends is hardly racist.

But I see your issue now ......

Being treated differently because of your nationality isn’t racist...

That’s literally happening in every airport of the world as I’m typing, people being stopped on the basis of where they have arrived from, being asked questions ..

Racism is discrimination...

Gradius · 21-06-2021 6:21pm

Sand wrote: »

The 1.8 is clearly a typo, with 1.18 intended. As stated by the initial post your are quoting, 1.18 million is 31.13% of 3.79 million and that is clearly dramatic population growth in just 20 years with a crippling economic cataclysm in the middle of it. Of course resources and systems are going to be under massive strain when people are flooding in to take advantage of them.

The latest burden being placed on us is this madcap scheme to buy a house for every asylum seeker who arrives on our shores. No thought at all given to what that is going to mean for Irish people trying to buy a home or indeed the impact to the environment or peoples quality of life as they are increasingly forced to move further and further away from their work.

It's a con job. Plain and simple.

No con man is bothered with the aftermath, they'll grab their wads of money and be gone.

Vulture funds, cuckoo funds, foreign "investors", NGO's that are practically human traffickers, multinationals, politicians.....

They'll pump, pump, pump the stock, and then they'll be gone, gone, gone when it inevitably collapses into ruins.

They were initially successful at turning their profiteering into an "ethical argument" about race, rights, you know, stuff to get people completely distracted while they're on the con. But it's starting to crumble and people are starting to wake up a little bit and pay attention.

Like mica housing, it was always going to go wrong

We're being conned, all of us.

[Deleted User] · 21-06-2021 6:30pm

bubblypop wrote: »

Oh, and where do you think the kids that insulted your wife when she was a kid got it? They didn't make it up themselves, they learnt it from someone racist!

How do you know that? They could have gotten it from all manner of sources, not just from other people, but also from TV or the internet. Hell, they could have gotten it from other kids, who thought of it themselves. Children can be very aware of the differences in appearance of others, and feel little reservation in commenting on it, and even more importantly, noting the reactions of others when the comments are expressed. Many kids are very aware of what buttons they can push.. and do so to get a reaction.

I was watching some daytime cartoons with my nieces the other day, and I was shocked at the layers of conditioning going on, all coming from US diversity or feminist agendas... They get it from their teachers, from cartoons (ever watched Peppa Pig?), from Hollywood movies, etc. and my nieces were aware of it all. They'd been on the receiving end of it throughout their childhood, and could identify it better now that they were entering their teens.

I think you're underestimating children in both their intelligence and creativity. They're perfectly capable of being racist all by themselves... especially when they're being told conflicting messages. My sister tells her kids that the colour of a person's skin doesn't matter, and we're all people. However, media, and their teachers tell them that skin colour does matter, and we should be careful not to insult others who are different. Just because the media or teachers are trying to pass on a "nice" message, doesn't mean that it's going to be taken up that way.. but worse yet, it reinforces the differences between different racial groups. Pushing us all away from an equal society where race or gender doesn't matter.

Strumms · 21-06-2021 6:38pm

The cso have said in the past that Ireland's population, which stood at 4.74 million in 2016, is projected to increase to between 5.33 million and 5.81 million by 2036..

An extra million people approximately or possibly.... over a very short space of time...

How will we cope ? We probably won’t.

Will anybody have the stones to speak up as to what is the driver of the population increase...? Unlikely....yet..

Gradius · 21-06-2021 6:42pm

Strumms wrote: »

The cso have said in the past that Ireland's population, which stood at 4.74 million in 2016, is projected to increase to between 5.33 million and 5.81 million by 2036..

An extra million people approximately or possibly.... over a very short space of time...

How will we cope ? We probably won’t.

Will anybody have the stones to speak up as to what is the driver of the population increase...? Unlikely....yet..

The CSO and ESRI don't even know who's Irish and who isn't anymore. Literally.

They recognise that they cannot distinguish between "naturalized migrants" that are now officially "Irish Nationals", and Irish people.

That's how bad it's gone. And it's not an accident, it's all part of the long con, all tied back to money.

Justin Credible Darts · 21-06-2021 6:47pm

bubblypop wrote: »

Oh, and where do you think the kids that insulted your wife when she was a kid got it? They didn't make it up themselves, they learnt it from someone racist!

Bullsh1t.

There are kids today who have learned the N-word....from black people who use it in music, tv, movies etc...

Maybe those people should use the word less for example.

Oh and for the record, the kids that would point out the differences were not racists, for the most part just kids combined with ignorance.

Strumms · 21-06-2021 6:51pm

Politics is indelibly linked to big business here.

Big business want more feet on our soil as that makes the tills ring louder and more regularly ...they want jobs market to be more competitive so wages can remain conservative...

It’s 1000% about money....

Heraclius · 21-06-2021 6:54pm

Strumms wrote: »

The cso have said in the past that Ireland's population, which stood at 4.74 million in 2016, is projected to increase to between 5.33 million and 5.81 million by 2036..

An extra million people approximately or possibly.... over a very short space of time...

How will we cope ? We probably won’t.

Will anybody have the stones to speak up as to what is the driver of the population increase...? Unlikely....yet..

I'm sure no country has ever experienced population growth before...

Seriously, the country is growing due to somewhat favourable demographics (a large enough generation having just under 2 children replacing smaller older generations) and an inflow of migrants due to us having a growing economy. I'd much prefer be in a country capable of attracting immigrants rather than one where people were desperate to leave.

Issues with infrastructure can actually be fixed if we try.

Gradius · 21-06-2021 7:08pm

Heraclius wrote: »

I'm sure no country has ever experienced population growth before...

Seriously, the country is growing due to somewhat favourable demographics (a large enough generation having just under 2 children replacing smaller older generations) and an inflow of migrants due to us having a growing economy. I'd much prefer be in a country capable of attracting immigrants rather than one where people were desperate to leave.

Issues with infrastructure can actually be fixed if we try.

Yes, the countrys inordinately accelerating population is completely natural. Every country will have +50 odd percent increase in less than a generation. Don't think about it too much.

We don't know who's who anymore, unfortunately our central STATISTICS office forgot to keep a tab on statistics. An innocent mistake. It's no big deal, we'll get around to that some other time. Don't think about it.

Yeah, the infrastructure will be fixed. Annnny day now the trend will suddenly reverse. We don't have enough housing but we swear on our pinky we will someday. Nothing to do with our completely normal population increase, no siiirrreebob. Don't worry about it.

In the meantime, let me hold that money, I'll be right back. Swear to God!

Bobblehats · 21-06-2021 7:11pm

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

There are kids today who have learned the N-word....from black people who use it in music, tv, movies etc....

Amongst other words…… hear it myself at the creche, very young children trotting out explicit stuff altogether with all the innocence of nursery rhymes. Not least that one, will prove difficult to contain

Justin Credible Darts · 21-06-2021 7:12pm

can someone explain to me how immigrants getting housed before our own irish people makes the irish racist ?

If anything it seems immigrants are getting preferential treatment.

placeholder for someone to claim this too is racism for having the audacity to mention this.

What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

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