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Withdrawing from religious education in a Catholic school - process/procedure/outcome

  • 16-09-2012 12:56pm
    #1
    68Murph68
    Registered Users Posts: 583 ✭✭✭


    As a follow-on from this thread in the atheism&agnosticism forum http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056752801

    Was is the process of withdrawing from religious education in a Catholic school?

    Also I'd love to hear how common/standard/usual this is and what are teachers' experiences of this?

    What does the child do? Does your school make any special provisions? Is a parent who requests this seen as a problem or nuisance parent?

    Does it make life harder if more than one child withdraws? (if more than one child isn't involved in the main lesson do the odds of misbehaviour increase?)

    Have any problems cropped up?

    I'd imagine that the typical approach by a school/teacher if a child has been asked to be excluded from religious education is that they are left to work independently (in the vast majority of the cases - read alone/work on problems on their own)

    Also wondering - does anyone know what the procedure is in a nominally Christian ethos school if a majority of the parents in a class put in a submission requesting that a child be excused from religious studies?
    However what would happen if a majority of the class asked to be excluded?

    I think it's unlikely currently but not impossible overall for the most part currently as most parents in Ireland don't want to kick up a fuss (especially if their child is just going to sit there reading)

    I'd imagine that if you asked the majority of parent would you prefer your child to to study 2.5 hours of religion or 2.5 hours of science a week the overwhelming majority would prefer 2.5 hours of religion?

    However if it was the situation that the majority of the child in a class have asked to be excluded how does the teacher/school/department of education react?

    What implications would this have for
    a) the individual teacher
    b) the school
    c) the department of education (2.5 hours of religion a week)

    On the religious ethos issue this is mainly to do with those large areas of the country where there isnt an educate together option available. I live in Killarney where there is no non-Catholic ethos primary school (there is one Educate Together school in Kerry - Tralee but that is not a realistic option)
    There are Gaelscoileanna but having no real interest/seeing no point in the Irish language I don't really think that is a realistic option either. In essence I would like the offspring to go to a school with an ethos on truth as opposed to religion. I have heard talk that one of the Gaelscoileanna is rather strongly Catholic anyway

    I know a fair few teachers in the local primary schools (even related to some) and I will be asking them about this directly but one thing I'd be worried about from my experience is that depending on what teacher a child has in a particular year/class the emphasis on religion can vary hugely - went from a teacher who looking back was almost definitely an atheist (cant remember him ever talking about religion + knowing him vaguely as an adult) to a nun who brought religion into everything - learning prayers in Irish, learning about the missions in Africa in geography etc


Comments

  • #2
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,475 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    The usual way to opt out is to tell the teacher. Never known any issue with this. Teacher doesn't have to prepare work for the child, some do. I would not like to see the child leaving the room at religion time-it would make the child self-conscious I'd imagine.

    Even if a majority in a class opted out,the teacher would be bound to teach the religion of the school ethos or in an Educate Together school the "Learn Together" programme.


  • #3
    68Murph68
    Registered Users Posts: 583 ✭✭✭68Murph68


    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    The usual way to opt out is to tell the teacher. Never known any issue with this. Teacher doesn't have to prepare work for the child, some do. I would not like to see the child leaving the room at religion time-it would make the child self-conscious I'd imagine.

    Even if a majority in a class opted out,the teacher would be bound to teach the religion of the school ethos or in an Educate Together school the "Learn Together" programme.

    Does the Department of Education say anything about this?

    I would have thought that there are very few cases where the child is left twiddling their thumbs and I find it hard to believe a child would leave the classroom (surely this would cause supervisory issues?)

    Given the numbers opting out this has to add up to a serious waste of pupil's time in a national sense.

    I'd imagine over the next few years that this is going to be more and more of an issue for Catholic ethos schools - just from the amount of newborns who arent being baptised currently.

    What would happen if you had a class with 15 or 20 pupils who opted out?

    As a hypothetical what would happen if there was a case where an entire class opted out?

    Highly unlikely I know but a remote possibility in a smaller school?

    Could the school quietly drop the whole issue of religion with the department of education looking the other way and the patron being none the wiser?


  • #4
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,475 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    Religion is not taught under the control of the DES.They do not examine it under whole school inspections and it is up to the Patron of the school to ensure it is taught. I didn't say children should leave the room, but some parents don't want their child staying during the lesson.

    Religion was originally taught in what would have been lunchtime 12.00 to 12.30 to allow for those not taking part go home for a longer lunch.

    As to other work, as the teacher is teaching religion at the time, they are not obliged to provide work for those opting out,some choose to ,some don't. I have never come across behavioural issues with children not taking part in religion class.

    It would be very unlikely an entire class of 28+ children would opt out of religion in a faith-based school.Smaller schools would have a number of children at each age group, so it's not likely to happen there either.


  • #5
    huskerdu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,931 ✭✭✭huskerdu


    My experience is as follows.

    When my children were enrolled in the school as non-Catholics, it was made clear to us that this was not a problem but that non-Catholic children do not leave the classroom during religion. I have had no problems and all the teachers that have taught my kids have been very helpful to us.

    Each year, the teacher has asked me if I want my child to be allocated the book and take part in religion class or not.

    The numbers of non-Catholics are quite small in the school. The children who do not participate are given work to do by the teacher or are allowed read or do homework in the older classes. I have never heard of any discipline issues.

    As for your wider questions, my experiences is that the numbers are so small, that I doubt if the scenarios you describe are very likely for a long time.

    I know lots and lots of people who are lapsed Catholics, never go to mass, dont know their parish priest and believe that Catholic teaching is irrelevant to them.Every single one of them had their child christened and made their communion.


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