Prostitution

Faith · 08-05-2006 12:04pm

CoolGuy2006 wrote:

you obviously have no real understanding of how life can be for these people.

And you do? Have you ever prostituted yourself? If you haven't, please refrain from implying that you understand when I don't.

Drug addiction is a big factor in Ireland.

We're not talking about the drug problem in Ireland. As far as I was aware, you wanted to discuss prostitutes in Holland and Germany.

Yes not all women who work as prostitutes need to but some do.

No they don't. There's always another solution. Maybe I'm being harsh, but I have very little sympathy for drug addicts. Maybe they don't have control over the situation now, but in the beginning they made a conscious decision to take those drugs, aware of the risks. They prostitute themselves to get money to feed their habits, not because they need to.

I think in your postion you couldnt understand how a woman needs it or sees it as her only option.

Again, can you understand? There is a big difference between needing something and seeing it as their only option.

Use google

For what, exactly?

CoolGuy2006 · 08-05-2006 12:11pm

Faith wrote:

We're not talking about the drug problem in Ireland .

Why are you confused i mentioned Ireland

Faith wrote:

Women don't need prostitution at all. In Ireland at least, .

This is why i mentioned Ireland, because you mentioned it.

Faith wrote:

Maybe I'm being harsh, but I have very little sympathy for drug addicts. Maybe they don't have control over the situation now, but in the beginning they made a conscious decision to take those drugs, aware of the risks. They prostitute themselves to get money to feed their habits, not because they need to.

Well now i know a bit more about your character. I suppose we should not try and help cancer patients who have smoked too or people with bad liver from drinking. Lets just let them die huh. I really dont know how you posted this in Humanities.

Faith wrote:

Again, can you understand? There is a big difference between needing something and seeing it as their only option.

I do understand, thats my point. Some people are in such desperate situations that they DONT see any other option.

Like a homeless person who sleeps out on the street. there are hostels and agencies to help, so why do they still sleep on the streets. because the issue is far more complex than i or you will probably ever understand

Madge · 08-05-2006 12:12pm

Faith wrote:

This is absolute nonsense. Prostitution has been around since the dawn of time. Women don't need prostitution at all. In Ireland at least, we have a social security system. Nobody is going to starve to death.

I can see you have no real understanding of life. I'll bet your're still living at home comfortably. People don't have to be 'starving' as you put it. They can be living on the breadline, with not 2 spare pennies to rub together. Everyday can be a struggle. Factor in kids to the equation and its a million times worse. This is enough for those women to actually need to do it.
Not to mention the whole area of drugs etc.

Faith wrote:

If they need money, they can sign on for the dole. Alternatively, they can get a real job.

Dole is cr@p money and see above response.

Faith wrote:

Sure, having your body invaded by random strangers is unpleasant, but there are plenty of unpleasant jobs. I can't imagine being a trash collector is much fun either.

You think working as a bin man is similar to selling oneself!?

Faith · 08-05-2006 12:26pm

CoolGuy2006 wrote:

Well now i know a bit more about your character. I suppose we should not try and help cancer patients who have smoked too or people with bad liver from drinking. Lets just let them die huh.

You know nothing about my character. People have free will. They choose what they put in their bodies, and must live with the consequences. Nowhere did I imply "Let's just let them die". You're completely twisting my words. I'm all for helping drug addicts recover. There are rehab facilities available to help them quit drugs, but they choose not to go to these.

I do understand, thats my point. Some people are in such desperate situations that they DONT see any other option.

I think the word that should be stressed there is "see". They don't see any other option. That doesn't mean that there isn't one available.

Like a homeless person who sleeps out on the street. there are hostels and agencies to help, so why do they still sleep on the streets. because the issue is far more complex than i or you will probably ever understand

No, I completely understand why homeless people sleep on the streets. But that's not what we're talking about.

Madge wrote:

I can see you have no real understanding of life. I'll bet your're still living at home comfortably.

You also have absolutely no idea about me so please don't presume to. No, I'm not still living at home and even if I were, it's none of your business. Attack the post, not the poster.

This is enough for those women to actually need to do it.

Why do you think that when the chips are down, women automatically turn to prostitution? Maybe they can't survive on the dole. There are other jobs available. Prostitution is not, and never will be, the only available option.

You think working as a bin man is similar to selling oneself!?

No I do not, I was simply pointing out that there are many unpleasant jobs in this world.

Madge · 08-05-2006 12:41pm

Faith wrote:

You also have absolutely no idea about me so please don't presume to. No, I'm not still living at home and even if I were, it's none of your business. Attack the post, not the poster.

I wasn't attacking you. I was commenting on how you appear to have not much life experience. That was all.

Faith wrote:

Why do you think that when the chips are down, women automatically turn to prostitution?

I never said that.

Faith wrote:

Maybe they can't survive on the dole.

You have contradicted yourself. You said previously that people CAN get by on the dole. They wouldn't 'starve' in this country.

Faith wrote:

There are other jobs available. Prostitution is not, and never will be, the only available option.

I never said it was.

Faith wrote:

No I do not, I was simply pointing out that there are many unpleasant jobs in this world.

Personally, I think being a binman or woman, is ALOT easier and a better job than selling yourself.

CoolGuy2006 · 08-05-2006 12:53pm

Faith wrote:

You know nothing about my character. People have free will. They choose what they put in their bodies, and must live with the consequences. Nowhere did I imply "Let's just let them die". You're completely twisting my words. I'm all for helping drug addicts recover. There are rehab facilities available to help them quit drugs, but they choose not to go to these..

sorry, faith, youre right, i dont know you. All i do know of you is what you post here. I wasnt actually trying to imply that i think you have the attitude of "Just let them die" bad example by me.

The fact that you said

Faith wrote:

but I have very little sympathy for drug addicts ..

this doesnt really say much in fairness.

Dades · 08-05-2006 12:59pm

Sleepy wrote:

If we can all agree that there is nothing wrong with consensual prostitution (and indeed the laws of our land agree with this, choosing to make solicitation or pimping rather than the act of prostitution itself illegal), we then need to look at how to prevent those operating in this market from exploiting victims of human trafficking.

Was there any agreement to this? I think it makes sense.

I'm really not sure what direction this discussion is headed at the moment.

CoolGuy2006 · 08-05-2006 1:01pm

The Atheist wrote:

Was there any agreement to this? I think it makes sense.

I'm really not sure what direction this discussion is headed at the moment.

i agree to that, in theory. I dont know how such a thing could exist in reality though and men would have to take on a lot more responsibility. this was my only problem, men who go to Amsterdam and germany Knowing the risks but taking the chance anyway. This is not responsible

DadaKopf · 08-05-2006 1:13pm

I'm pretty sure I disagree with Sleepy's statement there.

I think most people in this thread are simply refusing to see the reality about why people become prostitutes for the sake of making some unrelated point about 'freedom of choice'.

Treating the issue as a 'market issue' is extremely amoral.

DOLEMAN · 08-05-2006 2:53pm

DadaKopf wrote:

So because every industry has problems then prostitution is OK?

No, prostitution is OK because there is nothing wrong with sex and I don't have the traditional Catholic Ireland guilty-about-sex thing going on.

People need to stop bringing prostitution back to slavery. It's the same tactic used by the Catholic Church. "Having sex will give you AIDS. Stop having sex."

We could pick every industry and find problems. "But are you admitting some computer programmers get repetitive strain industry? That is why programming is evil!"

...

If sex was not involved, we would not be having this conversation.

DadaKopf · 08-05-2006 3:17pm

The issue is about prostitution, not sex.

Of course there's nothing wrong about sex, it's a fundamental aspect of existence. In my opinion, in general terms, what happens between consenting people is none of my business. So don't elide the issue.

But as Seraphina said, prostitution is about the "objectification of women". All prostitution is about the objectification of the someone. To me, the issue is the same as all kinds of exploitation where there is an exchange value of labour involved. Prostitutes necessarily commodify themselves in a psychologically damaging way which, for example, art performers don't.

So, unlike meaningful or funtime sex between two consenting people (sex isn't bad and the faster we get over out Victorian heritage the better), prostitution as exploitation is a serious moral issue, and ignoring the reality of prostitution by making some general statement, unfounded by evidence, about how great sex is doesn't make any sense. The reality of prostutution is illustrated by the statistics I presented earlier on, which you and Tar.Aldrion have suspiciously ignored.

Your tactics are neocon tactics. Pure rhetorical devices that don't require you to make a cogent argument or back any statements up. All you've done is abstracted the whole issue out of reality.

"But are you admitting some computer programmers get repetitive strain industry? That is why programming is evil!"

It's simply not the same thing.

If sex was not involved, we would not be having this conversation.

Wrong. How many threads have gone about these boards about poverty, worker exploitation etc?You're only half-right. The only difference here is that the issue we're discussing is prostitution, not labour exploitation in the coltan mines of Congo, or the Irish Ferries dispute.

CoolGuy2006 · 08-05-2006 3:17pm

DOLEMAN wrote:

No, prostitution is OK because there is nothing wrong with sex

Not really as simple as that and im sure you know why.

DOLEMAN wrote:

People need to stop bringing prostitution back to slavery

No, men need to excercise more responsibility that will hopefully end the slavery of women in certain circumstances. The facts are there mate, i know you dont believe them but there isnt much i can do about that.

You tell me about other workers in other industries who are treated bad aswell, i believe this too, there should be no excuse and place for this either. Myself and other people here have produced links to facts that are talking about modern slavery in an industry that you have an interest. Why do you believe other reports about other forms of inhumanity but when reports are produced about prostitution then all of a sudden the media is sensationalising.

Its not just the media, it official government and european reports.

Its is not us who are creating the link between prostitution and slavery, IT IS REALLY HAPPENING, we are merely commenting on it

DOLEMAN wrote:

It's the same tactic used by the Catholic Church. "Having sex will give you AIDS. Stop having sex."

Actually im just saying that men have to be more responsible

DOLEMAN wrote:

We could pick every industry and find problems.

What point are you trying to make here. So because there are other bad things in the world lets not bother with Human trafficking

DOLEMAN wrote:

"But are you admitting some computer programmers get repetitive strain industry? That is why programming is evil!"

No comment

...

Sleepy · 08-05-2006 5:29pm

CoolGuy2006 wrote:

where on earth did you see i have this opinion. other people here have said this about me but i havent. Dont tell me what my opinions are when i havent even talked about it personally.

It's a fair deducement when it seems to be the only part of the exploitation of trafficked people that you have a major problem with.

We were talking about prostitution, someone mentioned other acts against humanity. I dont condone these or see it them as any less of a crime. I was merely focusing on the trafficking of women. So i cant have a problem with the trafficking of women because there are other problems out there.

While it's your right to object to prostitution (and in commendably you seem to accept that if it's not being carried out in an exploitative fashion, you can tolerate it if the rest of society wants it even if it's something that you find repulsive. More people of that mindset would be a very good thing in this world) I think you're letting that moral objection to prostitution colour your opinion and leave you rather blinkered towards the broader issue of human trafficking.

I believe that in order to deal with the issue of sex-trafficking, we need to tackle the entire issue of trafficking and the root causes of it which are fundamentally economic.

DadaKopf wrote:

Treating the issue as a 'market issue' is extremely amoral.

According to who's morality exactly? Personally I've no problem with prostitution. I have, however, a huge problem with slavery. They're my morals, yours are clearly different. My proposed approach to dealing with the broader problem of exploitation stands a chance of actually working, what exactly were your proposals? Outlaw prostitution? Well, that's been tried for thousands of years and has never worked and has made the life of prostitutes far worse than it would be under a legalised system. It is the very fact that prostitution is illegal that makes it so easy for other crimes to take place in that black market.

But as Seraphina said, prostitution is about the "objectification of women". All prostitution is about the objectification of the someone. To me, the issue is the same as all kinds of exploitation where there is an exchange value of labour involved. Prostitutes necessarily commodify themselves in a psychologically damaging way which, for example, art performers don't.

Why is it necessarily the objectification of anyone? Surely it's placing a value on the service rather than the person? Contrary to the expression, a person (if we choose to remember that men can prostitute themselves too) doesn't actually sell their body when they engage in prostitution, they sell a service. Why is it any more psychologically damaging for someone to sell the service of oral sex than to sell a massage or physiotherapy? IMHO, the psychological effect of these things depends entirely on the individual's psyche. DOLEMAN has quoted the experiences of friends of his who worked in the field of prostitution. Surely they'd be more au fait with the psychological impact of their actions than you or Seraphina?

So, unlike meaningful or funtime sex between two consenting people (sex isn't bad and the faster we get over out Victorian heritage the better), prostitution as exploitation is a serious moral issue, and ignoring the reality of prostitution by making some general statement, unfounded by evidence, about how great sex is doesn't make any sense. The reality of prostutution is illustrated by the statistics I presented earlier on, which you and Tar.Aldrion have suspiciously ignored.

Woah there, a huge leap taken in this argument. You're making the assumption that prostitution is automatically exploitation. Take a look at the prices charged by 'escorts' in Ireland (google the words and you'll find a plethora of sites). These women are seemingly extremely well paid for the services they provide. Of course, if we're talking about sex slaves that certainly is exploitation but they're two totally different things.

The reality of prostitution which you seem to ignore is that there are women who don't find the idea of selling sexual services to be something that's not worth the payment they receive for the provision of the service. Another reality is the one you point out, that due to the illegal nature of the business there are unscrupulous individuals (both male and female I should point out) that have been able to exploit vulnerable people very easily.

Your tactics are neocon tactics. Pure rhetorical devices that don't require you to make a cogent argument or back any statements up. All you've done is abstracted the whole issue out of reality.

What a heap of sanctimonious twaddle. Go read the infamous Belle De Jour blog. Does it seem abstracted out of reality to you?

Wrong. How many threads have gone about these boards about poverty, worker exploitation etc?You're only half-right. The only difference here is that the issue we're discussing is prostitution, not labour exploitation in the coltan mines of Congo, or the Irish Ferries dispute.

And presumably you're 100% right? :rolleyes:

DOLEMAN · 08-05-2006 5:31pm

But the issue is with sex. Prostitution is about sex.

You think prostitution is about something else?

I repeat: what is wrong with women getting money for having sex?

You really need to think about your women/sex issues.

/not trying to get personal, just commenting on what you've said so far

DOLEMAN · 08-05-2006 5:37pm

PS It's funny how you are now pretending your issue is with human trafficing. Sussed!

Dades · 08-05-2006 5:51pm

DadaKopf wrote:

I think most people in this thread are simply refusing to see the reality about why people become prostitutes for the sake of making some unrelated point about 'freedom of choice'.

I'm pretty sure the reality about why people become prostitutes is irrelevant.

Sure, nobody grows up wanting to be a prostitute. But there are many "careers" that people put up with because they can't find anything else, or because the money is too good. The difference with the other 'accepted' careers is that the employees of those jobs are protected by labour laws wheras prostitutes have to operate with no legal protection.

What exactly is the objection to legalising prostitution, if it is not a moral one?

Faith · 08-05-2006 5:52pm

No he's not. He stated from the start that he has a problem with trafficking.

Original post by CoolGuy2006 wrote:

So, whats my problem i hear you say. Well, my problem is that i think Guys and most people now like to sugar coat the whole thing. Saying that the girls make good money and are saving up for houses, cars, blah blah blah. I think people put the real truth to the very back of their minds. Some of these women are in very desperate situations, some of thes women are sex slaves, kidnapped women kept in brothels
...

I showed her an article in a german magazine that talked about the trafficking of sex slaves into germany and the rest of western europe. Its like my girlfriend and her friends had never even given this a thought before. In the article a prostitute was interviewed. They quoted her as saying that she gets a little sense of satisfaction from sleeping with these men because they are probably less likely to go home and abuse their kids - WTF

I think people look at prostitution two ways.
2: its degrading to women and men and there is always the chance that the person is a sex slave who has been trafficked out of their home country

Seraphina · 08-05-2006 8:36pm

Sleepy wrote:

Why is it necessarily the objectification of anyone? Surely it's placing a value on the service rather than the person?

erm, thats exactly the point. the value is on the service. the person becomes u****ortant and in a way 'not real'. even the way people speak about it makes it disrespectful - 'using' a prostitute. she becomes nothing more than some orifices for the mans pleasure. she's not a person to him.

Sleepy wrote:

Contrary to the expression, a person (if we choose to remember that men can prostitute themselves too) doesn't actually sell their body when they engage in prostitution, they sell a service. Why is it any more psychologically damaging for someone to sell the service of oral sex than to sell a massage or physiotherapy?

oral or any other kind of sex is slightly more invasive :rolleyes: this makes a HUUUGE difference if there is force involved with the situation.

my point is that prostitution is often a case of previous psychological damage being reinforced, as in, rape, or any kind of abuse prior to engagement in the profession. something like prostitution is a black hole for mentally unstable women, creating a viscious cycle of self esteem and self worth issues.

either combined with this or as a single issue should neither of the above situations apply (i.e. the women is choosing to do this as a high class escort whatever because she makes good money and enjoys sex) is the impact this kind of situation has on the guy. to some it'll make no difference, some might not even enjoy it.
some love the power, and see it as an opportunity to objectify and order women around. it simply intensifies their misogyny. women become all the same for them, something to be used for sex and then discarded. in this case the impact is more on the guy than on the woman, but the psychological impact will spread further in this situation, to every woman the man meets.

Sleepy wrote:

IMHO, the psychological effect of these things depends entirely on the individual's psyche. DOLEMAN has quoted the experiences of friends of his who worked in the field of prostitution. Surely they'd be more au fait with the psychological impact of their actions than you or Seraphina?

tbh, i think DOLEMAN's friends are more likely the exception than the rule. yeah sure, there are plenty of women who are fine with what they do. for most of them however, i suspect its far from enjoyable .

also, as i said above, the women isn't the only one who's psyche we should worry about in these situations.

Sleepy wrote:

The reality of prostitution which you seem to ignore is that there are women who don't find the idea of selling sexual services to be something that's not worth the payment they receive for the provision of the service. Another reality is the one you point out, that due to the illegal nature of the business there are unscrupulous individuals (both male and female I should point out) that have been able to exploit vulnerable people very easily.

i think all the guys here just like to sugar coat the reality and say the stats on trafficking are negligible and that the women are all getting paid loads and they love it and sure aren't they exploiting us, so none of you have to feel guilty when you make your trips to amsterdam.

Faith · 08-05-2006 8:45pm

Seraphina wrote:

the value is on the service. the person becomes u****ortant and in a way 'not real'. even the way people speak about it makes it disrespectful - 'using' a prostitute.

Completely off topic, and I apologise for this, but why is half the word "un important" starred? Was that a mistake? I think I've seen it happen before and it made me curious.

/edit: It just happened too when I tried to post the word

coffee_cake · 08-05-2006 8:49pm

It's because of the "n-i-m-p" part of it which is part of the address of a very very nasty site, so it's been censored

Bottle_of_Smoke · 08-05-2006 8:50pm

Madge wrote:

I can see you have no real understanding of life. I'll bet your're still living at home comfortably. People don't have to be 'starving' as you put it. They can be living on the breadline, with not 2 spare pennies to rub together. Everyday can be a struggle. Factor in kids to the equation and its a million times worse. This is enough for those women to actually need to do it.
Not to mention the whole area of drugs etc.

So the sex industry is now responsible for people wanting to do it?

Dole is cr@p money and see above response.

Now here's some complete idiocy. I actually can't believe you're implying the sex industry is responsible for desperate people being attracted to it. It's like saying electrician firms who hire 16 year olds are responsible for kids dropping out of school & not getting a full education.

You think working as a bin man is similar to selling oneself!?

Yes, I certainly do. Just getting a job almost ANYWHERE is quite literally selling yourself. Job interview training tells you to Sell yourself. As DOLEMAN pointed out people don't care about being sold once the Vagina's off limits.

coolguy2000 wrote:

sorry, faith, youre right, i dont know you. All i do know of you is what you post here. I wasnt actually trying to imply that i think you have the attitude of "Just let them die" bad example by me.

The fact that you said

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faith
but I have very little sympathy for drug addicts ..

this doesnt really say much in fairness.

Well I certainly don't agree with any alcholic getting a new liver until every person who needs one for good reasons has been stitched up.

And drug addicts, I also have limited sympathy, as Dylan Moran put it for heroin users; "You'd think they'd have heard something bad about it by now"

People really must take responsibility for their actions.

Tar.Aldarion · 08-05-2006 8:52pm

Faith wrote:

Completely off topic, and I apologise for this, but why is half the word "un important" starred? Was that a mistake? I think I've seen it happen before and it made me curious.

/edit: It just happened too when I tried to post the word

Thw word n i m p is censored...for reasons...

EDIT: Damn you slow boards!

CoolGuy2006 · 08-05-2006 8:54pm

Faith wrote:

No he's not. He stated from the start that he has a problem with trafficking.

thank you faith.

This is going to be the last post i make on the subject, im even more depressed now about the whole subject than I was before I even Sarted. I dont now what i wanted, maybe to hear a few people say they feel the same. A few have.

Im am not some religious do-gooder who has issues with sex.

Firstly, I can live with People paying people for sex. Im not gonna lie and say i think this is a nice thing but I wouldnt be jumping in peoples way.

I just have a problem with people looking for these women in an enviroment that cant provide certain un-trafficked women.

This whole subject is a big thing for me. Im not comfortable about the way my friends talk about their adventures in Amsterdam and then i see them act a total different way here and pretend to have totally different values with the girls here. Why are they ashamed of being honest in front of our female friends?

If a guy wants to pay a woman who is more than happy and free to provide a service i wont complain about this even though i cant relate to it.

I think its unfair for people to criticise me for just concentrating on the trafficking of women, the subject became close to me and now i dont have the same friendship I used to have with my mates. The last day i talked to one of my mates was the day he got the all clear from the aids test. I wanted to be there for him but afterwards i just thought the whole thing was very selfish on his part.

I cant save the whole world, i wasnt trying too, i suppose i just wanted to hear if other people felt the same as me which is probably the wrong reason to start a thread anyway so i apologise.

Peace and love everyone

Faith · 08-05-2006 8:58pm

Cheers bluewolf and Tar, I googled it and saw what you were referring to. Yucky.

Now, back to the topic at hand!

Bottle_of_Smoke · 08-05-2006 9:17pm

CoolGuy2006 wrote:

Ok, im a guy, mid 20's.
My problem is with prostitution. Why has it become so acceptable nowadays.
Most of my friends have been with prostitutes and in my last job none of the guys were shy about talking about their past experiences either.

My friends would appear to have good morals on a day to day basis but every now and then they will head over to amsterdam to do the usual. This kinda thing is so common with men in General, far more common then i ever would have believed. I always pictured old desperate men going to prostitues but my mates are all young and good looking and would have no problem meeting up with a nice girl, whenever they want.

Even a good mate of mine came back from travelling and told me he met a prostitue in a park and did the business. WTF

He now has a lovely girlfriend who i know would be disgusted if she new this. You just wouldnt imagine this guy doing this kinda thing.

I was talking to one of my girlfriends about it and she said that she and her friends know that most guys do this kinda thing so there isnt anything they can really do about it. She just accepts it. I dunno, i think most girls would be shocked to find out how common this kinda thing really is.

Its strange walking down the Reeperbahn in hamburg and you see groups of lads, irish, English, Scottish, all just walking around in groups and going over to make arrangements with the prostitues. These are guys who think they can go abroad and fulfill their sexual needs and come home and leave it all behind.You can see it in their eyes, you can see the guilt, but they all act jack the lad with their mates.

I think people look at prostitution two ways.

1: is that they see the women as business women who are getting a good deal and saving for a good future.

2: its degrading to women and men and there is always the chance that the person is a sex slave who has been trafficked out of their home country

Why does everyone just accept it as part of modern life. Why do guys who normaly are of good character feel that when they go abroad they can throw money at a girl in a desperate situation, then come home and lead the normal good moral high life again

Recently in PI there was a post about prostitution and i was to supprised to hear some girls saying they had no problem with prostituion. I just think that the real reality is alot different than what some people would lead you to believe.

Stand on the reeperbahn for 5 mins, watch the groups of lads, probably from your hometown walk around with a beer in one hand, going up the the girls with the confidence they only wished they had with a girl back home. A few days later they arrive in dublin airport and agree with their mates, "What happened there, stays there" :-(

Obviously it could be anywhere, amsterdam, germany, spain, thailand.
I just think its a real shame what men allow themselves to do for their own gratification and then come home and pretend to be a different person in front of the girls they meet here. I dont think most girls here have a clue what really goes on.

Should i come down off my high Horse.

/////////six pages later////////////////////

Im am not some religious do-gooder who has issues with sex.

Firstly, I can live with People paying people for sex. Im not gonna lie and say i think this is a nice thing but I wouldnt be jumping in peoples way.

I just have a problem with people looking for these women in an enviroment that cant provide certain un-trafficked women.

This whole subject is a big thing for me. Im not comfortable about the way my friends talk about their adventures in Amsterdam and then i see them act a total different way here and pretend to have totally different values with the girls here. Why are they ashamed of being honest in front of our female friends?

If a guy wants to pay a woman who is more than happy and free to provide a service i wont complain about this even though i cant relate to it.

Seems you've learned a lot my friend

CoolGuy2006 · 08-05-2006 9:35pm

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote:

Seems you've learned a lot my friend

Im confused, did you edit out the main part of my original post for a reason

CoolGuy2006 wrote:

So, whats my problem i hear you say. Well, my problem is that i think Guys and most people now like to sugar coat the whole thing. Saying that the girls make good money and are saving up for houses, cars, blah blah blah. I think people put the real truth to the very back of their minds. Some of these women are in very desperate situations, some of thes women are sex slaves, kidnapped women kept in brothels
.

My attitude hasnt changed at all

Ok, last post i promise :-)

DOLEMAN · 08-05-2006 9:49pm

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote:

Seems you've learned a lot my friend

Indeed! The pimps win this round!!

/not really a pimp
//more of a human trafficer

Madge · 08-05-2006 10:32pm

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote:

So the sex industry is now responsible for people wanting to do it?

EH, what are you trying to say

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote:

Now here's some complete idiocy. I actually can't believe you're implying the sex industry is responsible for desperate people being attracted to it. It's like saying electrician firms who hire 16 year olds are responsible for kids dropping out of school & not getting a full education.

If people- women are poor and need money esp. for drugs, they may turn to the industry. Didn't you know that :rolleyes:
Your analogy about electricians doesn't make any sense.

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote:

Yes, I certainly do. Just getting a job almost ANYWHERE is quite literally selling yourself.

Selling 'yourself' and selling 'your body' are two different things. :rolleyes:

Bottle_of_Smoke · 08-05-2006 10:33pm

CoolGuy2006 wrote:

Im confused, did you edit out the main part of my original post for a reason

My attitude hasnt changed at all

Ok, last post i promise :-)

yeah, i was pointing out the changes in attitude. No need to point out the ones that didn't change. You said last post.

Bottle_of_Smoke · 08-05-2006 10:48pm

Madge wrote:

EH, what are you trying to say

I'm trying to say that if properly regulated prostitution is perfectly acceptable for recreational use. So why should this be ruined because desperate people are willing to turn to it.

If people- women are poor and need money esp. for drugs, they may turn to the industry. Didn't you know that :rolleyes:
Your analogy about electricians doesn't make any sense.

And why do you see it reasonable to hold the sex industry responsible for drug addicts? If it was legal drug addicts would lose their market. I'd personally prefer the girls I saw in windows in Amsterdam to the junkies I see in Dublin.

Selling 'yourself' and selling 'your body' are two different things. :rolleyes:

Some people see selling yourself(effectively your soul with capitalism) as a lot worse than selling your body. Personally I wouldn't do it because I don't feel comfortable with people I'm not attracted to having sex with me.

If you work in an office you're highly likely to be fuc*king your body over - eye\back strain, and lots of temptation to drink copious amounts of coffee. Work on a building site and you run the risk of destroying your back for later life. How is that not selling your body?

Just because you and I aren't comfortable with whoring ourselves doesn't mean we have any right to condemn those who are.

Prostitution

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