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Belfast rape trial discussion thread II

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Comments

  • #1532
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,139 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    I looked at that Van Persie case there. It doesn't say that she made a false allegation.
    It says that the case did not proceed because there was not enough evidence.

    Most rape cases do not get to court due to lack of evidence (it will change in the future). That is not a false allegation.

    There are of course actual false rape accusations yes.

    How will that change?


  • #1533
    Squatter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,841 ✭✭✭Squatter


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I wouldn't have thought his wealth or lack thereof, would have any bearing on his claim?

    Wouldn't you?


  • #1534
    Appledreams15
    Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭Appledreams15


    pjohnson wrote: »
    How will that change?

    They have launched a review into all sexual assault trials in Ireland.


  • #1535
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Squatter wrote: »
    Wouldn't you?

    No. If someone is taken to court and found not guilty, then they shouldn't be out of pocket.


  • #1536
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Faugheen wrote: »
    I haven't presented that as a fact. I used it as part my perception as to what she could have been thinking.

    Nothing about my post implies force was used. Again you read that, got offended, and got the wrong idea.

    I'll spell out what I meant because you're clearly the only person that doesn't ****ing get it.

    In HER mind, Olding comes in, and she finds herself in a position she doesn't want to be in (surrounded by (in her mind) two big strong rugby players), she felt intimidated (through no fault of Olding or Jackson), 'froze', and then just let whatever happened, happen.

    I made no implication that force was used. All of the above is not being displayed as fact. There was no evidence of force being used when Olding entered the room, so why would I imply that?

    Again, YOU are assuming I'm saying something completely hidden in my messages when I'm ****ing not. I'm sorry if you're not intelligent enough to realise that, but I'm not implying anything you think I'm implying nor am I presenting any of the above as a fact.

    I think we get what you are doing, all right.
    I think you think that your undermining of the case is subtle...it isn't. It is fairly blatant in your postings on this site.

    There is literally no evidence to suggest she was there under duress or that she was frozen.

    The actual evidence we have from the only independent witness to the events in the room was that what was happening was consensual and that it looked like all were enjoying what was happening.

    The independent witness also said that she couldn't say for sure that the complainant was positively consenting. So there we go.

    I can give my opinion on what happened that night, you have no right to tell me I'm trying to 'undermine' the case, when I'm not.

    I would like an apology from you for claiming that I implied Olding and Jackson used force on her with absolutely no evidence other misrepresenting what I said.


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  • #1537
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,139 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    They have launched a review into all sexual assault trials in Ireland.

    But how will evidence not be required?


  • #1538
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,006 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    I'm sure this has been posted at some stage but the mob mentality that this trial created was very similar to what happened after the publishing of the Rolling Stone article on assaults they claimed happened on UVA campus. They later had to post several apologies and pay out massive settlements when several investigations found the article had no merit.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Rape_on_Campus


  • #1539
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    I looked at that Van Persie case there. It doesn't say that she made a false allegation.
    It says that the case did not proceed because there was not enough evidence.

    Most rape cases do not get to court due to lack of evidence (it will change in the future). That is not a false allegation.

    There are of course actual false rape accusations yes.

    The case didnt proceed because she said she wasnt raped


    "The woman who accused Arsenal's Dutch star Robin van Persie of rape actually wanted to have sex with the "nice" footballer, a newspaper reported on Thursday.

    But what she didn't want was a foursome with two friends accompanying Van Persie, a married man she described as "nice", De Telegraaf said, quoting statements made by the woman to the police.

    "I really would have wanted to sleep with him if it had all passed off peacefully," she is quoted as saying.

    "But all three wanted sex with me, which wasn't really in my plans," she said.

    She said she cried rape "so the police came quickly. At no moment did I think I was being raped."


  • #1540
    Muff Richardson II
    Site Banned Posts: 20 ✭Muff Richardson II


    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    They have launched a review into all sexual assault trials in Ireland.

    reviews :) marvellous for politicians to get a pat on the back and keep your like quiet until you forget and move on to the next campaign of all men are scum and why are we so oppressed.


  • #1541
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,820 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Faugheen wrote: »
    The independent witness also said that she couldn't say for sure that the complainant was positively consenting. So there we go.

    I can give my opinion on what happened that night, you have no right to tell me I'm trying to 'undermine' the case, when I'm not.

    I would like an apology from you for claiming that I implied Olding and Jackson used force on her with absolutely no evidence other misrepresenting what I said.

    At no point before sexual activity began was she 'surrounded by big strong rugby players'. She was already engaged in activity with Jackson when Olding entered the room.

    You cannot 'perceive' something that did not happen. It is disingenuous, not to mention dangerous and people have being doing it since the start of the thread.


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  • #1542
    mfceiling
    Registered Users Posts: 12,774 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    If anything comes out of this whole sorry mess it's a lesson learned in curbing your alcohol intake.
    That goes for both sexes.


  • #1543
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,162 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    Roger Hassenforder wrote: »
    Ive a suspicion their claim of being "top shaggers" was made toungue in cheek, and as part of their childish and immature "bants". I seriously doubt anyone thinks they are in fact a top shagger, particulary when appraising anothers performance.

    (Did you ever think the girl in fact got better value, two top rugby players in the same session? The lads after all got 1/2 a share in the same girl).

    If nothing else maybe girls will stop throwing themselves at these guys and devaluing their productso cheaply.

    That is the point you made, your words....absolutely disgusting when you consider the state she arrived home in, you should be ashamed of yourself.


  • #1544
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    Muff Richardson II wrote: »
    two of them bent over the end of the bed chatting to each other about the price of rice or something in malay, one of them checking their nails and tutting whilst i was stumbling around the room with my bags around my ankles trying to pull off the performance of a lifetime. the two hoors ganged up on me. absolutely no understanding of customer being always right and all that. hugely disappointing experience. i completely empathise with complainant. learning experience.

    Would you not have asked for your money back?


  • #1545
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,162 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    Roger Hassenforder wrote: »
    You know your winning an argument with a woman when they change the subject but continue to argue.
    Go back and read the context of that to which you keep referring to, bearing in mind that which ive spelled out to you.

    We're done. You're going around in circles with your fingers in your ears (thats figuratively speaking, not literal), offering nothing but "but..but...she was crying..."

    Where have I changed the subject....you have been studiously avoiding taking responsibility for your disgusting comments...and attempting to deflect and change the subject while doing so...


  • #1546
    skearnsot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 499 ✭✭skearnsot


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    At no point before sexual activity began was she 'surrounded by big strong rugby players'. She was already engaged in activity with Jackson when Olding entered the room.

    You cannot 'perceive' something that did not happen. It is disingenuous, not to mention dangerous and people have being doing it since the start of the thread.

    Well if ya don’t want to be surrounded by big strong rugby players - don’t go to a house party with strangers in a rugby players house where there will be other big strong rugby players - because the word surrounded is used it doesn’t necessarily mean she was surrounded in a threatening manner


  • #1547
    Squatter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,841 ✭✭✭Squatter


    Deleted User wrote: »
    No. If someone is taken to court and found not guilty, then they shouldn't be out of pocket.



    Indeed. The innocent Ulster taxpayers should pick up Paddy's tab.

    Do you reckon that they should also have to pay for Paddy's father's £1,000 car parking bill?


  • #1548
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    Where have I changed the subject....you have been studiously avoiding taking responsibility for your disgusting comments...and attempting to deflect and change the subject while doing so...

    In some deluded manner you thought you were badgering me about not having empathy for the girl, and when that particular house of cards collapsed, you've moved the goalpost out to the 22, and are now banging on about a "disgusting comment" made about threesomes. Very poor calibre stuff.
    Go back to your "but...but...she was crying sure even the taxi driver said it" sthick as evidence of a rape.


    Jasis i forgot, we're done.
    Yea, like whatever.


  • #1549
    Muff Richardson II
    Site Banned Posts: 20 ✭Muff Richardson II


    Roger Hassenforder wrote: »
    Would you not have asked for your money back?

    Things are fairly hazy from the night but I’m pretty sure they weren’t issuing any kind of money back dissatisfaction receipts or vouchers at the fishbowl. It didn’t end well, I got a bit mouthy with one of them telling her to pick up her game, pun intended, and I was sent packing.


  • #1550
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,162 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    Roger Hassenforder wrote: »
    In some deluded manner you thought you were badgering me about not having empathy for the girl, and when that particular house of cards collapsed, you've moved the goalpost out to the 22, and are now banging on about a "disgusting comment" made about threesomes. Very poor calibre stuff.
    Go back to your "but...but...she was crying sure even the taxi driver said it" sthick as evidence of a rape.


    Jasis i forgot, we're done.
    Yea, like whatever.

    So your changing the subject right...poor calibre stuff indeed...

    Absolute spoofer!


  • #1551
    facehugger99
    Registered Users Posts: 7,206 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    Deleted User wrote: »
    No. If someone is taken to court and found not guilty, then they shouldn't be out of pocket.

    That's not how it works.

    500k the bold Paddy spent. Will be lucky to get even a small percentage of it back.

    He'll be a few years playing in France to break even and that's before you consider all the losses he will suffer due to the toxicity of his 'brand'.

    Tough lesson for him to learn - hopefully other young men will take note and learn some lessons from this too.


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  • #1552
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    Squatter wrote: »
    Indeed. The innocent Ulster taxpayers should pick up Paddy's tab.

    The Ulster taxpayer, after their police force found insufficient evidence and recommended no prosecution, a recommendation subsequently ignored, should pick up innocent Paddy's tab!


  • #1553
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,162 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    Roger Hassenforder wrote: »
    The Ulster taxpayer, after their police force found insufficient evidence and recommended no prosecution, a recommendation subsequently ignored, should pick up innocent Paddy's tab!

    More spoof....keep it coming this is hilarious!!


  • #1554
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    Muff Richardson II wrote: »
    Things are fairly hazy from the night but I’m pretty sure they weren’t issuing any kind of money back dissatisfaction receipts or vouchers at the fishbowl. It didn’t end well, I got a bit mouthy with one of them telling her to pick up her game, pun intended, and I was sent packing.

    Is there any consumer agency you can bring this to the attention of? Other unsuspecting consumers could be similarly ripped off?
    Can the brazzers be struck off or something?


  • #1555
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    That's not how it works.

    500k the bold Paddy spent. Will be lucky to get even a small percentage of it back.

    He'll be a few years playing in France to break even and that's before you consider all the losses he will suffer due to the toxicity of his 'brand'.

    Tough lesson for him to learn - hopefully other young men will take note and learn some lessons from this too.

    That's interesting. A tough lesson indeed - for all concerned.


  • #1556
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    More spoof....keep it coming this is hilarious!!

    I thought i heard something...

    Nope, just the wind blowing.


  • #1557
    tritium
    Registered Users Posts: 7,411 ✭✭✭tritium


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    That's not how it works.

    500k the bold Paddy spent. Will be lucky to get even a small percentage of it back.

    He'll be a few years playing in France to break even and that's before you consider all the losses he will suffer due to the toxicity of his 'brand'.

    Tough lesson for him to learn - hopefully other young men will take note and learn some lessons from this too.

    And don’t forget the damage when that binding UN resolution comes through,,,,,


  • #1558
    Muff Richardson II
    Site Banned Posts: 20 ✭Muff Richardson II


    Roger Hassenforder wrote: »
    Is there any consumer agency you can bring this to the attention of? Other unsuspecting consumers could be similarly ripped off?
    Can the brazzers be struck off or something?

    I brought it to Bord Fáilte’s attention when I got back in case any tourists here had a similar experience but I didn’t get a response. Not sure if I’ve any recourse with the orchard towers at this late stage, I did express my dissatisfaction at the time and was shown the door in head lock by a fella that looked like that **** actor the rock but with the head of Jackie chans. I’m all ears if you’ve any suggestions.

    #ibelievehim


  • #1559
    Muff Richardson II
    Site Banned Posts: 20 ✭Muff Richardson II


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    That's not how it works.

    500k the bold Paddy spent. Will be lucky to get even a small percentage of it back.

    He'll be a few years playing in France to break even and that's before you consider all the losses he will suffer due to the toxicity of his 'brand'.

    Tough lesson for him to learn - hopefully other young men will take note and learn some lessons from this too.


    I did think the 100k figure sounded a bit shy for 8 months or so.

    I agree on the learning lesson for other young men, do not bring some drunk neurotic lunatic back to your house where you can leave yourself open to being accused of something you didn’t do.


  • #1560
    Appledreams15
    Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭Appledreams15


    Muff Richardson II wrote: »
    reviews :) marvellous for politicians to get a pat on the back and keep your like quiet until you forget and move on to the next campaign of all men are scum and why are we so oppressed.

    I like men...outside Ireland. Very happy where I am right now


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  • #1561
    upandcumming
    Registered Users Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭upandcumming


    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    what he apologised for.

    Here it is again!
    facehugger99 wrote: »
    The behaviour Paddy's apologised for. It's been all over the news for weeks now- what thread do you think you're posting in?
    upandcumming wrote: »
    That is the only answer people can give - "bu bu bu bu look at the apology!"

    But that isn't actually an answer.


This discussion has been closed.
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