Denis Villeneuve’s Dune

Need a Username · 03-11-2021 12:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118107395#Comment_118107395

I was annoyed at the muffled dialogue too but I don’t think it a lot of scene.

I thought maybe three times and it always seemed to be something about the Messiah that got muffled.

I have never read the books and I thought the dreams were easy enough to understand what they were about - he has visions of the future. What he actually sees in his visions is meant to confusing because he doesn’t see everything.

It didn’t feel like 2 1/2 hours. It felt like half that.

pixelburp · 03-11-2021 8:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118110357#Comment_118110357

Can't speak for Arghus but but I think "grown up" here is more about the films structure, pacing and how it spoke to the audience. Family friendly movies, especially those "4 quadrant" types, usually have much faster pacing, with dialogue or plotting that's intentionally simplistic or linear. Everything's explained to some degree, young kids can follow along and kept engaged/excited.

Dune barely held the adults' hands and I can't seriously imagine any kids being able to follow or understand what was going on. Certainly the pacing likely would bore then to tears (again, seems like some of the adults here couldn't get past the slow pace), while the politics probably would go over their heads.

Need a Username · 03-11-2021 9:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118110916#Comment_118110916

I thought the film clipped along at a very nice pace. The story and dialogue (with the exception of some moments where it was muffled or mumbled) was straightforward and easy to follow.

The politics is simple and spelled out clearly at several points - Leto tells Paul going to Dune is going to put them in a position of great power, someone (Brolin I think) tells Paul that the honour of controlling Dine is not necessarily a gift, the Bene Gessrit tell the Harokkons that the Emperor wants the Atreides destroyed because they are getting too popular. What is difficult to follow?

There are nuns with super powers and Paul has these powers. He is a a Messiah or Chosen One.

The politics and religion are easy to understand and are explained a lot more than in Star Wars.

There is not that much down time between action scenes.

It has the same level of violence as Star Wars and in fact a big deal is made of the fact that Pail has taken a live and is hesitant to do so until he no choice. The heroes in Star Wars kill with no regard for life. Naked and paralysed Oscar Isaac and the intent by some of the bad guys to commit rape are the only “adult” moments in the film and even so the former may have some equivalent in Star Wars and the later would not be understood by kids.

As you point out there are elements that adults couldn’t follow or be happy with. Likewise some kids would be bored and others enjoy it.

You will have to give me some examples of family friendly or other blockbusters that hold hands (not disagreeing just can’t think of any) but I don’t see anything in Dune that required it.

I really enjoyed the movie but was expecting it to be a bit bonkers. And the director had called it (or at least the books) Star Wars for adults but I honestly can’t see that adult aspect.

Very glad though that there is a new outer space film and tv series.

Ash.J.Williams · 03-11-2021 9:53am

saw it in max blanch and it was one of greatest ever cinema experiences ever, no social distancing though

Lefty2Guns · 03-11-2021 10:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118110386#Comment_118110386

I'm finding a lot of movie dialogue is muffled these days. Like the surround sound on the movie is more important than the conversation the characters are having.

I really enjoyed the film though. Looking forward to the Part 2.

ancapailldorcha · 03-11-2021 3:00pm

Wanted to like it more than I did. Felt like it was a bit too focused on setting up epic shots and moments (and some definitely qualify in this regard) than pacing. As a result, I felt disengaged for large chunks of it.

Need a Username · 03-11-2021 3:28pm

I was really looking forward to seeing the movie and although I did enjoy I didn’t come out of the wow’d by it.

I have not read the books or seen the Lynch movie but had it in my head that the Dune franchise was bonkers and weird. I have seen parts of Jardowsky’s Dune and although I was aware that Jardowsky had never even read them himself before designing the images maybe that put the bonkers and weird in my head.

So even though I liked it I was thrown from the start by the fact it wasn’t bonkers and weird and I couldn’t settle into it.

buried · 03-11-2021 9:06pm

Went to see this again today. Its just so brilliantly crafted. The entire world and universe is totally believable even after just a couple of minutes of swinging into it. I think this has a lot to do with the fantastic sound design Villeneuve utilises to the images sequenced on the screen, it disorientates your brain into accepting this alien world almost immediately. Hopefully this will be released as blu-ray at Christmas time. The two and a half hours just flew by for me both times, I wanted to stay another two hours watching and experiencing more.

pixelburp · 03-11-2021 9:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118113061#Comment_118113061

To be honest the first couple of books are not especially bonkers. They are, to be reductive, straight faced tales of political intrigue between factions (centred around open themes of colonialism) or the inevitable spiral of a holy war (openly referred to as a Jihad in the book) - mixed around a Chosen One storyline that now seems very passé. The curse of being the progenitor.

The 80s film and the abandoned Jardowsky production have given the series more of a reputation for craziness than is earned or fair; now, the later books do get a little more intangible and eccentric, but still nothing outright "bonkers". I'd elaborate but obviously that spoils some big events - though they're also unlikely to be adapted faithfully if the films ever reach that far into the books.

Need a Username · 03-11-2021 9:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118114948#Comment_118114948

Well I guess seeped into my subconscious from that reputation.

I was also expecting it to to be very complex in regards the story and culture of the universe but it was far from that.

I did like it but I will have to watch it again to properly enjoy it free from the preconceptions I had. Can’t do that at the cinema though - the showtimes here are damned inconvenient.

So I will watch again when it hits iTunes.

Slydice · 03-11-2021 9:47pm

Youtube maybe giving me a message that I've been clicking on too many of the chant videos it sends me..

(warning flashing lights.. pumpin beats etc..) .. Sardaukar Chant Rave

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqBEMza8msw

buried · 03-11-2021 9:57pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK5uG2fN6HE

That Sardaukar chant bit was really cool. Reminded me of this Russian outfit, either Villeneuve or Zimmer are obviously fans

twinex · 03-11-2021 10:11pm

I really liked Dune but if I was to quickly describe it to someone, its like a 2 1/2 hour trailer for an even better movie.

Sad Professor · 03-11-2021 10:13pm

Did anyone else notice Villeneuve's take on folding space? Essentially the Heighliners appear to act as portals which ships fly through, immediately arriving at their destination. It's a good take on the book in which the Guild Heighliners were described as being like massive cargo ships which carried ships to their destination.

Useful.Idiot · 04-11-2021 1:14am

Yep I also thought it was a very interesting take on the heighliners.

Just back from seeing it in IMAX; loved it. was mesmerised practically the whole way through - a totally immersive world. I think Chalamet nailed the odd combination of naivety, brooding and power that is Paul.

I also had a rough idea of where it was going to end and thought it was a perfect point when it did. Very excited to see how they tackle so many things in the second act.

Soundtrack was ace too; a bit more variety than usual from Hans with the more eastern and desert sounds.

pixelburp · 04-11-2021 9:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118115047#Comment_118115047

Re. the culture, the movie only glanced at some of that and probably for the simple reason of time and pacing. The books go into a tonne of world-building and detail of the societal structure going on in the universe, and one of the many reasons the books had been considered "unfilmable" for the longest time.

For instance: that Atreide's advisor, the old fella? He and Harkonnen's own are part of a caste of humans called "Mentats"; basically, living computers whose brains have been expanded using chemical enhancement so they can strategise and perceive beyond our normal range. Why? Because an important aspect of Dune's internal history was the Butlerian Jihad, when "thinking machines" - ie, artificial intelligence - rebelled against humanity. Since then any kind of AI is forbidden.

The books bounced between characters, so while the above is all debatably important to the story of Dune itself, understanding what a Mentat was was important to those sections where we followed the Atreide's own, Thufir Hawat, and his small arc (basically, he was old and started making mistakes, but keeping it to himself IIRC; everything that happened on Arakis was kinda his fault).

timmyntc · 04-11-2021 10:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118116520#Comment_118116520

Thufir Hawat, and his small arc (basically, he was old and started making mistakes, but keeping it to himself IIRC; everything that happened on Arakis was kinda his fault)

Thats not it at all:

THufir presents everything as his own fault, when in reality the Harkonnens plans are totally out of leftfield and not predictable at all. The cost of the Harkonnen invasion would take over 100years of spice profits to pay back the Baron notes - it was a hugely risky and expensive gamble, and as Mentats are primarily supposed to choose the most likely plan (the book makes lots of references to their thinking in terms of % and the most likely occurrence) - and finally the fact that the traitor was Dr Yueh, a man with Imperial conditioning thought not able to be broken by anyone (the Baron gloats about how he managed to break imperial conditioning on Yueh - and that the emperor should never find out either - this was unprecedented and a big deal)

pixelburp · 04-11-2021 10:11am

It is a long while since I read the book, so admit to being hazy on the details.

Need a Username · 04-11-2021 1:06pm

Well fair play to the director and writers for being able get the story and all the elements into a film.

I actually really like that there was no long epic shots of the ships, vehicles and locations - they are heavily detailed but kind of just presented as “there”. And things the Bene Gessiret and the enhanced people not being heavily explained added to the feeling of being in the story.

I guessed the two guys were cyborgs or had a computer brain but didn’t think the old timer might be on the Fritz. He is clearly upset in that meeting after the bug attack on Paul - I thought it was just that he was upset about (which works for the story) but obviously he is also concerned about his failing abilities. I did think it would have been nice if he and Paul has a brief scene were Paul put his mind at ease about the attack (plus I did want those guys to have more screen time as they very cool) but maybe he should have got a few seconds were we find out he is malfunctioning from age or someone suggests it to the Duke.

I’m looking forward to see it again. I hope it will be available to buy on iTunes by Christmas but probably not and I hope it has a tone of decent and informative extras.

odyssey06 · 04-11-2021 1:48pm

Am going to rewatch the David Lynch version or at least as far as the films overlap.

ancapailldorcha · 04-11-2021 3:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118116620#Comment_118116620

Is the series worth reading?

breezy1985 · 04-11-2021 3:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118118273#Comment_118118273

Dune definitely is but after that there are wildly differing opinions. I loved Messiah but I'm finding CoD boring but most people seem to have those 2 the other way round.

If I ever do get to the reportedly wacky GEoD I think it will be after a good long break.

The good thing is every book has a solid ending so you can stop at any point and get a good resolution

pixelburp · 04-11-2021 3:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118118273#Comment_118118273

The first is a bit of a tome but well worth reading; aspects like the characterisation is often internalised through inner monologue, making the read a little dense and hard to digest in places. But as Sci-Fi epics go, it's hard to top and lives on for a good reason. IIRC the sequels are a shorter, and if you just wanted to follow Pau's journey, you need only read the first 3 books. The general thinking is to also avoid the various novels written by Frank Herbert's son, Brian.

On another note, this was an interesting video from a YouTuber I follow; he does a dive into the music and soundscapes of Dune, and how they're used to convey emotion and story points, without the need for dialogue or exposition. He does criticise the overuse of score, especially in places where characters might have had more room.

https://youtu.be/P50VrsM_xlU

Slydice · 04-11-2021 9:50pm

I'd say it's worth reading if Dune has caught your interest and want to know more details.

Saying that, you might spoil parts of the next film on yourself.

It is a pretty.. dense? .. book.. like it goes heavy into details where I didn't understand why at first..

Saying all that.. I know I've been reading people saying some scenes didn't have a lot going on in them where.. in the book there's a metric ton of thinking going on. Particularly the tent scene.

Also like.. whew.. Leto right..

in the book is a fury of rage onto himself about the assassination attempt on Paul

and I'm like.. I know this.. but I'm also like.. yeah fair enough.. the film was already 2.5 hours 🙂

Really felt like Villeneuve did give nods to all that thinking though. Many places. Maybe an obvious one spotted by the Audience being with Jessica and Paul

in the ornithopter being brought out to the desert by the Harkonnens

L'prof · 05-11-2021 6:37am

Not technically Dune related but inspired by and from the same creator. Really looking forward to this after really liking Dune. I really like Waititi. This could be a long way off though https://theplaylist.net/the-incal-taika-waititi-20211104

facehugger99 · 05-11-2021 9:25am

Pleasantly surprised. Found it enjoyable and despite it's runtime it kept me engaged throughout.

I've read the book and seen the previous version so I didn't need to be spoon-fed the plot but I can imagine others getting lost and losing interest.

Biggest issue for me was the 12A rating - I'm not sure why they went for this as I can't see this being a 'bring the kids along' type of movie. I don't often say this but the movie needed more gore and needed to go darker in places, particularly the Harkonnen scenes - I think a 15 certificate would have suited the movie perfectly.

Acting was great, cinematography stunning and I loved the score. Hopefully they'll make a Part 2.

gmisk · 05-11-2021 1:45pm

I thoroughly enjoyed this I have to say.

It looks spectacular some of it is truly jaw dropping, the scale is just amazing.

I know nothing about books etc and haven't seen other adaptations.

I kinda new with the part 1 thing at the start we were only getting half a story so no big surprise.

Not a huge Timothee Chalamet fan but he was fine in this I thought, the real star of the film acting wise is Rebecca Ferguson she does a load of heavy lifting and has such an amazingly expressive face.

A few minor criticisms I also found it a little hard to hear what some people were saying at times and found the music a tad intrusive but pretty minor criticisms.

8.5/10

Riddle101 · 06-11-2021 1:45am

Finally got to see it today and it lived up to my expectations. As it happens I've been reading the Dune books again so it's all very fresh in my mind what was going on in the movie and I think it was as accurate to the books as it could be except for maybe a few minor changes like Liet-Kynes being a woman and all, but I was happy with it all the same.

One thing though, I was actually hoping to see a particular scene from the book where they're all at a dinner party with Liet-Kynes, and one of the Smugglers, Esmar Tuek is there with him, and they have the Guild Banker and a Harkonnen spy among them, and Duncan Idaho, Gurney Halleck, Jessica and Paul become aware of the spy and start using hand signals to communicate with each other. It's a small scene in the book but it's one of my favorite parts of the book. It also helps to add to the Liet-Kynes character a little bit because, from the discussion he has with Leto, they talk about changing the climate of Dune which was one of Liet's ambitions.

My only real gripe with the movie is that I felt they didn't give us enough time to certain characters, like the Baron, Thufir Hawat, and Piter De Vries for instance. The Baron's screen time was very short and didn't really give us too much of a look into his character. Peter was barely much of a presence in the movie even though he more or less planned and orchestrated the events that led to Leto's death in Dune, his character also had an interest in Jessica as well which got no mention. And Thufir was also kind've neglected a little.

breezy1985 · 06-11-2021 10:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118126056#Comment_118126056

For the sake of a movie though it's better to make the Baron and Leto the master planners rather than spend a load of time on 2 characters who are not central to the story or to getting the story from A to B

Personally I prefer when it was Liet/Kynes rather than Dr.Liet Kynes and I do think that character needed a bit more time

pixelburp · 06-11-2021 12:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118126056#Comment_118126056

I believe that dinner party scene was shot, just not included in the theatrical cut. I can see why it was dropped TBF, though it would have given a better sense of the Atreides being there longer than how it felt, being about 5 minutes before the attack.

It leads me to hope there'll be an extended cut with this scene and others restored. Suppose it depends on Villeneuve's interest, and if the studio deem it worth their own investment of time and money.

Denis Villeneuve’s Dune

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