Public Toilet plans beside English Market

roundymac · 16-05-2021 12:11pm

Igotadose wrote: »

I recall a thread a couple years ago when I vented about the English Market having *no* functional toilets the day we visited -and at best, one.

Traveled hours to get there and couldn't find a working toilet. Now, there's a proposal to do *something* about it and the whinging from the multitudes is fierce.

It's well past time something was done, and *anything* would be better than the current dysfunctional situation. Soon as the toilets are there, we might consider visiting the place again. Not like the shops are any great shakes though, better shopping outside the market. But while there's no toilet available, nuh-uh. Even pokey little cities like Tralee have them.

Its Ireland or should I say Cork, what do you expect?

fiload · 16-05-2021 1:28pm

Would like to see the plans before making up my mind.

Regardless of that I think pretty much everyone here agrees that they should sort out the toilets on grand parade first.

notAMember · 16-05-2021 1:29pm

There are toilets in the public library, across the road.

There is the building which is a public toilet block , now closed but which should be renovated, also across the road.

There are hundreds of cafes , pubs and restaurants in the city, where you can stop for a cuppa and a loo break.

And if you are a visitor to the city, you may be staying in one of the hotels, toilets in the rooms and restaurants.

All of those are closed for pandemic reasons unfortunately, so the city is definitely an open sewer at the moment.

corks finest · 16-05-2021 3:21pm

notAMember wrote: »

There are toilets in the public library, across the road.

There is the building which is a public toilet block , now closed but which should be renovated, also across the road.

There are hundreds of cafes , pubs and restaurants in the city, where you can stop for a cuppa and a loo break.

And if you are a visitor to the city, you may be staying in one of the hotels, toilets in the rooms and restaurants.

All of those are closed for pandemic reasons unfortunately, so the city is definitely an open sewer at the moment.

It’s still not good enough, a mother with a few smallies needs access to a loo each trip to town at least once

notAMember · 16-05-2021 5:47pm

corks finest wrote: »

It’s still not good enough, a mother with a few smallies needs access to a loo each trip to town at least once

Well, smallie navigation is how I know where the loos are, rather than street drinking.

The library is handy because of the bonus colouring sheets in there, and swapping the books for the week. Did I mention the Crawford? Also good with children as they sometimes have art and craft sessions, puppets or storytelling. Nice for a few minutes break from walking for those short legs, and reduces complaining about town when there is something they enjoy too.

corks finest · 16-05-2021 5:59pm

notAMember wrote: »

Well, smallie navigation is how I know where the loos are, rather than street drinking.

The library is handy because of the bonus colouring sheets in there, and swapping the books for the week. Did I mention the Crawford? Also good with children as they sometimes have art and craft sessions, puppets or storytelling. Nice for a few minutes break from walking for those short legs, and reduces complaining about town when there is something they enjoy too.

Great tips

sporina · 16-05-2021 10:26pm

fiload wrote: »

Would like to see the plans before making up my mind.

Regardless of that I think pretty much everyone here agrees that they should sort out the toilets on grand parade first.

thats a definite no go apparently.. and i know its a shame but I can understand why.. can't be supervised..

sprucemoose · 17-05-2021 9:11am

Igotadose wrote: »

I recall a thread a couple years ago when I vented about the English Market having *no* functional toilets the day we visited -and at best, one.

Traveled hours to get there and couldn't find a working toilet. Now, there's a proposal to do *something* about it and the whinging from the multitudes is fierce.

It's well past time something was done, and *anything* would be better than the current dysfunctional situation. Soon as the toilets are there, we might consider visiting the place again.

that doesnt really make much sense to me, the current toilets are/were out of order/not fit for purpose,so the solution is to build completely new facilities which would take up the street-facing facade between two of the entrances? surely the starting point would be to refurb/improve the existing facilities and then go from there. i understand there is a lack of toilet facilities in the city and more definitely need to be provided, but just shoving them into any auld available space shows the complete lack of forward thinking we have in this country. using the existing public toilets across the street properly would be a good jumping off point to be honest (that would unfortunately involve providing alternative facilities for drug users - sad reality but true) and most likely a few similar facilities dotted around the city centre would be sufficient

beer enigma · 17-05-2021 11:53am

sprucemoose wrote: »

that doesnt really make much sense to me, the current toilets are/were out of order/not fit for purpose,so the solution is to build completely new facilities which would take up the street-facing facade between two of the entrances? surely the starting point would be to refurb/improve the existing facilities and then go from there. i understand there is a lack of toilet facilities in the city and more definitely need to be provided, but just shoving them into any auld available space shows the complete lack of forward thinking we have in this country. using the existing public toilets across the street properly would be a good jumping off point to be honest (that would unfortunately involve providing alternative facilities for drug users - sad reality but true) and most likely a few similar facilities dotted around the city centre would be sufficient

Interesting chat on this at the weekend

Ok, so seems the council are reluctant to reopen the old toilet as they fear it will again be destroyed by antisocial behaviour, location wise and the fact its self contained add to this.

They feel that the new location between the doors at the market will be more 'visible' and therefore less likely to attract such behaviour

The new location is UNLIKELY to be manned

Biggest reason for new location is that the Council are the landlords of the market and therefore landlords of the Hilsers property.

sprucemoose · 17-05-2021 12:02pm

beer enigma wrote: »

Interesting chat on this at the weekend

Ok, so seems the council are reluctant to reopen the old toilet as they fear it will again be destroyed by antisocial behaviour, location wise and the fact its self contained add to this.

They feel that the new location between the doors at the market will be more 'visible' and therefore less likely to attract such behaviour

The new location is UNLIKELY to be manned

Biggest reason for new location is that the Council are the landlords of the market and therefore landlords of the Hilsers property.

this shows the lack of knowledge the planning dept./council have in my opinion. the fact the proposed location is so visible is exactly why it is a bad idea - it is at the entrance to one of our most popular (rightly or wrongly) tourist attractions, putting a public toilet there is a terrible idea. if it is to be unmanned then there is no guarantee that this location wont have the same problems anyway.

rorrissey · 17-05-2021 12:22pm

My top toilets in town (pre pandemic) : Brown Thomas toilet, Merchant's Quay, Crawford Gallery, the toilets in any building UCC owns, TK Maxx toilets.

sporina · 17-05-2021 11:21pm

Igotadose wrote: »

I recall a thread a couple years ago when I vented about the English Market having *no* functional toilets the day we visited -and at best, one.

Traveled hours to get there and couldn't find a working toilet. Now, there's a proposal to do *something* about it and the whinging from the multitudes is fierce.

It's well past time something was done, and *anything* would be better than the current dysfunctional situation. Soon as the toilets are there, we might consider visiting the place again. Not like the shops are any great shakes though, better shopping outside the market. But while there's no toilet available, nuh-uh. Even pokey little cities like Tralee have them.

so are you saying that you will only visit the market if they have "functioning" toilets? why so? or do you really have a dose? :pac:

Fabio · 18-05-2021 9:02am

I dunno, it might have been mentioned already, but there are people who have conditions which mean they need to be able to access toilets fairly easily. Not to mention people with kids!

At the moment we're effectively excluding those people from the city because the basic facilities aren't there to cater to them. It's a bit like not having wheelchair accessible parking spaces. There'd be uproar if that was the case, and rightly so.

Starbucks weren't making their toilets available in town recently - should places be forced to open their toilets? Could there be a system whereby the council will reduce the rates charged to a business if they open their loos to the public?

sporina · 18-05-2021 10:32am

rorrissey wrote: »

My top toilets in town (pre pandemic) : Brown Thomas toilet, Merchant's Quay, Crawford Gallery, the toilets in any building UCC owns, TK Maxx toilets.

And Debenhams, which is sadly no more..

18-05-2021 11:02am

beer enigma wrote: »

...........

The new location is UNLIKELY to be manned...........

Will just be a shooting gallery so and no one else will go near it.

Igotadose · 18-05-2021 11:41am

Fabio wrote: »

I dunno, it might have been mentioned already, but there are people who have conditions which mean they need to be able to access toilets fairly easily. Not to mention people with kids!

At the moment we're effectively excluding those people from the city because the basic facilities aren't there to cater to them. It's a bit like not having wheelchair accessible parking spaces. There'd be uproar if that was the case, and rightly so.

Starbucks weren't making their toilets available in town recently - should places be forced to open their toilets? Could there be a system whereby the council will reduce the rates charged to a business if they open their loos to the public?

There are food serving areas in the Market, but at best one available toilet. That's pathetic. "Eat here, but go across the street to use some other establishments toilet" is poor.

sprucemoose · 18-05-2021 11:47am

Igotadose wrote: »

There are food serving areas in the Market, but at best one available toilet. That's pathetic. "Eat here, but go across the street to use some other establishments toilet" is poor.

hyperbole. for the way the market is set up the existing facilities should just be upgraded and that would be fine (i presume farmgate have their own WCs). either way, using the space between the street entrances for toilet facilities would be a bad idea

Igotadose · 18-05-2021 12:02pm

sprucemoose wrote: »

hyperbole. for the way the market is set up the existing facilities should just be upgraded and that would be fine (i presume farmgate have their own WCs). either way, using the space between the street entrances for toilet facilities would be a bad idea

If you mean the restaurant on the second level, they don't. The existing facilities (2 toilets as I recall, though only 1 was ever working the few times we visited) need to be expanded to handle the traffic and overall improved.

Letting perfect be the enemy of good doesn't work.

sprucemoose · 18-05-2021 12:15pm

Igotadose wrote: »

If you mean the restaurant on the second level, they don't. The existing facilities (2 toilets as I recall, though only 1 was ever working the few times we visited) need to be expanded to handle the traffic and overall improved.

if the farmgate doesnt have their own facilities thats a problem and is potentially not in accordance with regulations (i dont know the exact details of how they are set up so this is just an educated guess). like i said, if the existing facilities are upgraded and the farmgate had their own then it would be fine

Igotadose wrote: »

Letting perfect be the enemy of good doesn't work.

this sort of thinking is exactly why we have wasted serious amounts of money on unsuitable public projects in this country. i understand there is a need for increased toilet facilities in the city centre, absolutely no arguments there. But as ive stated many times this location is simply not suitable, even more so if they are not to be monitored and they will just end up like the existing WCs across the street. Shoving them at the entrance to the market just because its an empty unit makes no sense and would likely detract from it both visually and functionally - definitely and element of cutting of your nose to spite your face

notAMember · 18-05-2021 12:34pm

Igotadose wrote: »

There are food serving areas in the Market, but at best one available toilet. That's pathetic. "Eat here, but go across the street to use some other establishments toilet" is poor.

I'm not sure I agree here. I don't think the market is a suitable place for eating to be honest. There's raw meat and fish everywhere. It's more of a take-away set up.

The farmgate is the exception upstairs, but the existing toilet in the place is effectively for that one place.

namloc1980 · 18-05-2021 12:41pm

notAMember wrote: »

I'm not sure I agree here. I don't think the market is a suitable place for eating to be honest. There's raw meat and fish everywhere. It's more of a take-away set up.

The farmgate is the exception upstairs, but the existing toilet in the place is effectively for that one place.

That doesn't really add up. If it's not suitable for eating what makes it suitable for preparation of food, cooking of food etc? Also there's at least one little cafe/chocolate place in there that has bar stool type seats.

notAMember · 18-05-2021 1:47pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

That doesn't really add up. If it's not suitable for eating what makes it suitable for preparation of food, cooking of food etc? Also there's at least one little cafe/chocolate place in there that has bar stool type seats.

Prep is controlled. All the HACCP regs apply to food prep, cleaning and zones etc.

Eating it is a different story. I wouldn't stand around in front of an open chicken stall and eat for example. You'd be in the way of everyone anyway. The coffee stand stools are in their own spot out of the way aren't they?

The sandwiches, sushi, salads, sausages etc... all the things that are available as ready to eat are set up as take-away, aren't they? Not eating in there.

namloc1980 · 18-05-2021 1:54pm

notAMember wrote: »

Prep is controlled. All the HACCP regs apply to food prep, cleaning and zones etc.

Eating it is a different story. I wouldn't stand around in front of an open chicken stall and eat for example. You'd be in the way of everyone anyway. The coffee stand stools are in their own spot out of the way aren't they?

The sandwiches, sushi, salads, sausages etc... all the things that are available as ready to eat are set up as take-away, aren't they? Not eating in there.

Coffe/snack place with the stools is still in the market - I presume you think they should be removed and banned as no eating in the market should be allowed?

There is no prohibition on eating in the market that I am aware of, is there? Many of the places in there put samples up on their counters which people eat. You're not expected to take a sample and walk outside to eat it.

I see what you're saying but it isn't black and white.

Igotadose · 18-05-2021 2:23pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

Coffe/snack place with the stools is still in the market - I presume you think they should be removed and banned as no eating in the market should be allowed?

There is no prohibition on eating in the market that I am aware of, is there? Many of the places in there put samples up on their counters which people eat. You're not expected to take a sample and walk outside to eat it.

I see what you're saying but it isn't black and white.

Really? No regulations about number of toilets and hand-washing facilities per seat in an area that serves food? I'm sure there are - and just as certain that the English Market doesn't meet them, probably due to historic exceptions.

sprucemoose · 18-05-2021 2:28pm

Igotadose wrote: »

Really? No regulations about number of toilets and hand-washing facilities per seat in an area that serves food? I'm sure there are - and just as certain that the English Market doesn't meet them, probably due to historic exceptions.

it depends on whether theyre classed as takeaway (which they probably are, though not certain) in which case they most likely dont for customers and im not too sure what the staff facility situation is there.

18-05-2021 2:37pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

....................

There is no prohibition on eating in the market that I am aware of, is there? Many of the places in there put samples up on their counters which people eat. You're not expected to take a sample and walk outside to eat it.

I see what you're saying but it isn't black and white.

Indeed there's not, to be fair it's a valid opinion " I don't think the market is a suitable place for eating to be honest.".

I don't find the smells and look of the place conducive to having a feed tbh.

namloc1980 · 18-05-2021 3:11pm

Igotadose wrote: »

Really? No regulations about number of toilets and hand-washing facilities per seat in an area that serves food? I'm sure there are - and just as certain that the English Market doesn't meet them, probably due to historic exceptions.

What are you on about? Where did I say any of that. You're just making stuff up. Please don't. It makes you look silly.

Igotadose · 18-05-2021 3:13pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

What are you on about? Where did I say any of that. You're just making stuff up. Please don't. It makes you look silly.

You said it wasn't 'black and white.' My point, poorly made, is that I assumed there were in fact regulations on restaurants and other food servers that require toilet facilities for both customers and staff, and that the English Market was in violation of both. It's simple - it's a food selling facility that lets people sit and eat. There have to be regulations in black and white.

sporina · 18-05-2021 6:28pm

Igotadose wrote: »

There are food serving areas in the Market, but at best one available toilet. That's pathetic. "Eat here, but go across the street to use some other establishments toilet" is poor.

jaysus you seem to be in a bad way.. do you really have a dose? :pac: (Igotadose) lol

whisky_galore · 18-05-2021 7:57pm

Augeo wrote: »

Indeed there's not, to be fair it's a valid opinion " I don't think the market is a suitable place for eating to be honest.".

I don't find the smells and look of the place conducive to having a feed tbh.

It is a bit weird trying to eat with sights of raw meats and fish not to mention the associated honk of it wafting about. I wouldn't be at all pushed about eating there.

Public Toilet plans beside English Market

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