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16-10-2019, 17:33   #751
osarusan
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Do you think the game would have gone identically if we only needed a draw from it? You think it would have panned out exactly the same when our need of a result was different? Well you probably would. But most people would probably be able to see that it would have been a different game, different mentality.

The Georgia result mattered because it forced us into a position where we had to beat Switzerland and if not, had to beat Denmark.

The mental gymnastics involved in your continued defense of this regime must be tiring. Unsurprising because, like Mick, you didn't even know of the permutations that would qualify us from the group.
I know where you are going with your argument, but TBH, we looked like a team playing for a draw anyway. We even looked like it after we were 1-0 down, apart from a brief spell early in the second half.

And the worst thing is that against Denmark, in a game we must win, we're going to look like a team playing for a draw for the first 75 minutes of the game.

We'll only start to look like we want to score when there are either 15 minutes to go, or because we're already a goal down.
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16-10-2019, 17:35   #752
 
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You think the result would have been different if we only needed a draw?

But actually, a draw would have been hugely beneficial last night because it would have meant playing Denmark when they have nothing to play for? Yet we still never looked like getting it.

So how do you square that circle?

Really, it's a massive exaggeration to attribute the result last night to that.
I think the game would have panned out far differently if we had beaten Georgia. Momentum still on our side. No negativity. Mick could set up for the draw if he wanted like MON did away v Denmark in 17. Or not, but Swiss under massive pressure and us on a high.

Draw being hugely beneficial last night in current circumstances is a massive stretch. Denmark on an off day could potentially beat us, they are fairly outspoken about how little regard they have for us.

But a draw is a far easier result than a win. And had we beaten Georgia and drawn with Swiss, Denmark would have qualified with a draw v us aswell! They would have even qualified with a loss to us! Your point is hilariously bad because we would have just needed to draw the game in my scenario, rather than win as in your scenario, against a team that had already qualified.

I don't even know what your argument is. Baffling stuff.

Last edited by Mokuba; 16-10-2019 at 17:43.
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16-10-2019, 17:39   #753
 
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I know where you are going with your argument, but TBH, we looked like a team playing for a draw anyway. We even looked like it after we were 1-0 down, apart from a brief spell early in the second half.

And the worst thing is that against Denmark, in a game we must win, we're going to look like a team playing for a draw for the first 75 minutes of the game.

We'll only start to look like we want to score when there are either 15 minutes to go, or because we're already a goal down.
If we beat Georgia and drew with Switzerland, Denmark would have qualified there and then.

What Mick threw away was needing a draw against a team that had already qualified. Because he was too scared to try to beat Georgia.
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16-10-2019, 17:43   #754
osarusan
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If we beat Georgia and drew with Switzerland, Denmark would have qualified there and then.

What Mick threw away was needing a draw against a team that had already qualified. Because he was too scared to try to beat Georgia.

I agree with you. My main criticism of pretty much every Irish manager since and including Charlton is that we are too negative against teams that we shouldn't be afraid of, which results in us dropping points we shouldn't be dropping. And the result of this is that we end up not being able to play for a draw against the teams that it make sense to play for a draw against.

The point of my earlier post was that although the draw against Georgia made a win against either the Swiss or the Danes essential, you wouldn't have known that by the way we played last night. We were still as defensive as ever, so I don't think the Georgia result actually affected our setup that much anyway.
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16-10-2019, 17:45   #755
 
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I think it would have gone differently. I can't prove that, but I find it unlikely that it would have gone the same way.

We coughed up a monumental opportunity by not going for it against Georgia. It was disgraceful management.
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16-10-2019, 17:49   #756
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randolph didnt have to make one save v georgia! Two extra points would be a lot easier to get off georgia than bloody swiss or danes. You have to take risks or calculated risks in football. The georgia farce by the players, but by mccarthy too tactically was pure IDIOCY!
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16-10-2019, 17:49   #757
glasso
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If we beat Georgia and drew with Switzerland, Denmark would have qualified there and then.

What Mick threw away was needing a draw against a team that had already qualified. Because he was too scared to try to beat Georgia.
Switzerland would have beaten that Ireland team, whatever the circumstances (e.g. even if had beaten Georgia)

So the same position regardless.

I see that Ireland are over 3 to 1 to win in November.
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16-10-2019, 18:09   #758
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a hammering? we played bloody appalling, were a player down and two nil is all the managed. Hammered in terms of play yes, by score no. Youd swear they put 4-5 past us!
If Randolph hadn`t played a stormer last night they would have done.
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16-10-2019, 18:14   #759
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If Randolph hadn`t played a stormer last night they would have done.


I think I saw the Swiss keeper going off for a hotdog during the match, he took a chance that he wouldnt be needed.
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16-10-2019, 18:14   #760
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Ok, here's 3 again:

Explain Hogan in that squad?

Explain using 2 substitutes?

Explain not bothering to play a left back against Bulgaria?
They are hardly absurd decisions, or else your definition of it and mine are completely different. The third point was in a friendly where we won 3-1 FFS.

I'll admit the first two points are things that I think Mick has got wrong, but they are minor enough things IMO. It's not like he is picking Scott Hogan over Harry Kane.

Not going for the win against Georgia was embarrassing really but we are not the first team to go out there and slip up, just ask the Danes. The manner of the performance was probably worse than the result in my book. But even if we did get the win, as the Danes won later that day it always meant we were going to have to beat Denmark. Expecting a result away to the top seeds in a group is generally unrealistic, last nights result or performance was no surprise.
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