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Railfreight

12357…22

Comments

  • #122
    yachtsman
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭yachtsman


    The DFDS traffic is gone to road. You can see it on the M50 every day and the transition is working well according to a friend in the business. Whether tanks Interbulk and ECS will travel via IWT remains to be seen. Contacts in the road haulage game say that Port to West is more attractive to them than Bellview. They felt the pinch of the DFDS and IWT and reckon IE are not interested in the long run so they are regrouping for a fightback. Signs from the DfT indicate little knowledge and no interest or commitment to rail so logistics managers are anxious to keep a good proportion of traffic on the road. Transport keep remarking that the loss of the toll payments caused by rail is a subsidy to rail as they have to compensate some tollroads if revenue falls below a certain level !!!So you can see where their preference lies. One senior civil servant thought the containers were carrying timber from Galway to Dublin Port for export! The question is will IE decide to invest in rail equipment for other destinations than the West and build on what is a profitable business. My view is they won't. I think they are a busted flush. I'd have confidence if the road haulage industry was given control and access to the railfreight business but thats not likely.


  • #123
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    yachtsman wrote: »
    Transport keep remarking that the loss of the toll payments caused by rail is a subsidy to rail as they have to compensate some tollroads if revenue falls below a certain level !!!
    Given the length and frequency of freights at present that has to be a red herring surely. Railfreight is a drop in the bucket of cargo movements nationally.


  • #124
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,608 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    yachtsman wrote: »
    Transport keep remarking that the loss of the toll payments caused by rail is a subsidy to rail as they have to compensate some tollroads if revenue falls below a certain level

    Two specific tollroads, neither of which are on the way from Ballina to Waterford or Dublin.

    I call "made up" on this.


  • #125
    yachtsman
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭yachtsman


    Apart from the fact that the former dfds is using the m4 i reckon they mean the wholesale diversion of freight to rail would lead to significant loss of tolls. I agree its insignificant at present.


  • #126
    kc56
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭kc56


    And likely to remain so...

    Dublin port has about 17000 truck movements per day and 80% of these are containers so that leaves 15,000 possible loads per day mostly 40ft. A standard IE freight train can take 18 wagons and lets say 30 containers (40' and 20' to fit on a 60' wagon). That's 500 train-loads per day!!! A more modest 10% of traffic would need 50 trains per day. That's a train every hour each way. I don't think the infrastructure is there in the port never mind the netork to handle that.

    Therefore the toll operators have no fear of a move to rail.....


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  • #127
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,608 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    yachtsman wrote: »
    Apart from the fact that the former dfds is using the m4 i reckon they mean the wholesale diversion of freight to rail would lead to significant loss of tolls. I agree its insignificant at present.

    The M4 does not receive any subsidies for traffic, nor did it ever - its not in their concession contract.

    N18 and M3 only.


  • #128
    Sligo Quay
    Registered Users Posts: 727 ✭✭✭Sligo Quay


    MYOB wrote: »
    Two specific tollroads, neither of which are on the way from Ballina to Waterford or Dublin.
    Correct, you can take the M9 and drive all the way to Waterford and not encounter a toll, that was down to Martin Cullen looking after Waterford supporters, but the Cork rd from Waterford on the new bridge I think is tolled, a lot of nonsense and spin about tolls........ I know many truckers who avoid tolls, they have toll avoidance down to a fine art, I know some truckers depart Dublin Port, go free through Port Tunnel, then take M3, come out somewhere near Kilcock/ Enfield, the Kinnegad, thus avoiding 2tolls, M50 M4, look start a thread on road tolls, be my guest.


  • #129
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,240 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    yachtsman wrote: »
    Transport keep remarking
    Who? Where were these remarks made?
    Sligo Quay wrote: »
    I know some truckers depart Dublin Port, go free through Port Tunnel, then take M3, come out somewhere near Kilcock/ Enfield, the Kinnegad, thus avoiding 2tolls, M50 M4, look start a thread on road tolls, be my guest.

    Are you sure about this? Those roads aren't in sequence.


  • #130
    Sligo Quay
    Registered Users Posts: 727 ✭✭✭Sligo Quay


    Victor wrote: »
    Who? Where were these remarks made?



    Are you sure about this? Those roads aren't in sequence.
    I listen to talk among the truckers themselves, don't ask me how they get from the N2 or N3 to the N4 or M4, probably have good road knowlege of cross country routes, if your driving the routes often enough, probably get it down to a fine art.


  • #131
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 12,956 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    Sligo Quay wrote: »
    I listen to talk among the truckers themselves, don't ask me how they get from the N2 or N3 to the N4 or M4, probably have good road knowlege of cross country routes, if your driving the routes often enough, probably get it down to a fine art.

    I'm guessing they are turning off the M 3 just before the Dunshaughlin toll plaza and heading via Trim and Summerhill to Kilcock and onto Enfield. Good move; for the sake of two tolls it's the guts of an hour over narrow roads, slow speeds, towns and the risk of a hold ups from agricultural traffic or get there way earlier.


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  • #132
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Sligo Quay wrote: »
    Correct, you can take the M9 and drive all the way to Waterford and not encounter a toll, that was down to Martin Cullen looking after Waterford supporters, but the Cork rd from Waterford on the new bridge I think is tolled, a lot of nonsense and spin about tolls........ I know many truckers who avoid tolls, they have to have toll avoidance down to a fine art, I know some truckers depart Dublin Port, go free through Port Tunnel, then take M3, come out somewhere near Kilcock/ Enfield, the Kinnegad, thus avoiding 2tolls, M50 M4, look start a thread on road tolls, be my guest.

    With margins in road haulage now cut to the bone,Truckers simply have no choice but to avoid,what in Irish terms,is just thievery.

    IF the Government were serious about green issues and the rest of it then both Buses/Coaches and HGV's would be FREE of Tolls...but hey,just lookit where Mr Dempsey has brought us...to a land where the Toll Franchise deals are shrouded in secrecy and "Commercial Confidentiality" clauses....to protect who's interests exactly ? :(


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • #133
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    well if you follow through the idea of free toll roads, the hauliers then wouldnt mibnd iof we went round and used their trucks... companies invested in the toll roads and if anyone doesnt want to use them, thats OK, but they need paying for and we didnt pay for them.


  • #134
    J Cheever Loophole
    Registered Users Posts: 967 ✭✭✭J Cheever Loophole


    A ray of light perhaps? The following was posted by trackie1 on the Irish Railway News forum. Apologies if it has been mentioned elsewhere.


    http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/business/irish-rail-ceo-indicates-that-foynes-rail-link-could-be-re-opened-1-4148299
    From Limerick Leader
    By Gerard Fitzgibbon
    Published on Sunday 12 August 2012 09:00


    IARNROD Éireann has given the clearest indication yet that the railway line between Foynes and Limerick city may be re-opened in the near future.

    Iarnrod Éireann chief executive Richard Fearn has said that following discussions with management at the Shannon Foynes Port Company, it is believed that there will soon be enough commercial traffic to justify re-opening the line, which has been dormant since 2001.
    Mr Fearn made the comments in response to a parliamentary question by Fine Gael TD Patrick O’Donovan regarding the future of the rail line, and what potential exists for it to be re-opened to freight traffic.


    ...


  • #135
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Sorry Dick, but we've heard this song before "in the near future", a "good business case" etc. The reality is Dick wants SFPC and the freight forwarders to pay everything (including reinstatement of LCs and viaduct refurbishment) and him nothing, and this is a position totally in keeping with the government's attitude to railfreight.


  • #136
    kc56
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭kc56


    dowlingm wrote: »
    Sorry Dick, but we've heard this song before "in the near future", a "good business case" etc. The reality is Dick wants SFPC and the freight forwarders to pay everything (including reinstatement of LCs and viaduct refurbishment) and him nothing, and this is a position totally in keeping with the government's attitude to railfreight.

    Not just the Government. EU regulations prohibit subsidisation of freight so every freight operation must be self financing. (And that is the main reason why there is so little freight operations at present). So unless there is a justification for passenger links to Foynes, the cost of re-instatement has to be included in the charges to the freight operators.


  • #137
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,667 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Was on the 13.10 to Waterford today, while passing Kildare there was a almost full DFS liner on the centre track (Dublin Track) but the 201 loco was facing towords Cherryville. Was it operating from Northwall to Ballina or Ballina to Waterford (suposed to of ceased). Seems very strage for a Northwall-Ballina service to be stopped in Kildare as it would not be to common.

    We then stopped at Cherryville waiting for an empty timter service to pass so the DFS would of had to get moving soon afterwords.


  • #138
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 12,956 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Was on the 13.10 to Waterford today, while passing Kildare there was a almost full DFS liner on the centre track (Dublin Track) but the 201 loco was facing towords Cherryville. Was it operating from Northwall to Ballina or Ballina to Waterford (suposed to of ceased). Seems very strage for a Northwall-Ballina service to be stopped in Kildare as it would not be to common.

    We then stopped at Cherryville waiting for an empty timter service to pass so the DFS would of had to get moving soon afterwords.

    That was an IWS working between Ballina and Northwall; the Waterford liner stopped a month ago.


  • #139
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,667 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Losty Dublin wrote: »
    That was an IWS working between Ballina and Northwall; the Waterford liner stopped a month ago.

    We passed a Ballina-Northwall at Park West but if it was a second one why was the loco facing Ballina direction, do you mean it was heading from Northwall-Ballina.


  • #140
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 12,956 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    We passed a Ballina-Northwall at Park West but if it was a second one why was the loco facing Ballina direction, do you mean it was heading from Northwall-Ballina.

    Possibly, yeah. They have been known to run reliefs and extras on busy days as needed.


  • #141
    Hungerford
    Registered Users Posts: 912 ✭✭✭Hungerford


    kc56 wrote: »
    Not just the Government. EU regulations prohibit subsidisation of freight so every freight operation must be self financing. (And that is the main reason why there is so little freight operations at present).

    Would that be the same EU that recently signed off on a massive €1 billion rail freight subsidy for Austria (http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/policy/ec-authorises-state-aid-for-austrian-railfreight.html)?

    The reality is that the government could subsidise rail freight if the political willingness was there. But it isn't.


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  • #142
    Robbo
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,553 Mod ✭✭✭✭Robbo


    Long time follower to this thread, first time poster etc.

    I spotted this (apologies for rubbish quality) going through Ceannt Station this morning. I presume this is some kind of box ticking exercise for IE to say that they're promoting Railfreight?


  • #143
    gobnaitolunacy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,073 ✭✭✭gobnaitolunacy


    Robbo wrote: »
    Long time follower to this thread, first time poster etc.

    I spotted this (apologies for rubbish quality) going through Ceannt Station this morning. I presume this is some kind of box ticking exercise for IE to say that they're promoting Railfreight?

    Seen a few of those...including one at one station juxtaposed with an ad for a local BMW dealer exhorting people to 'make their own tracks'.... mixed messages for rail customers there.


  • #144
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Reminds me of the giant billboards that CIE retained adjacent to some bridges on the North Kerry line which were still used to promote rail travel back in the 1980s - the route closed in 1963. :rolleyes:


  • #145
    Hungerford
    Registered Users Posts: 912 ✭✭✭Hungerford


    I think a more recent example of that was IÉ promoting its new intercity railcars on billboards in Co. Donegal.


  • #146
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    IRN rumour has it that 12 pocket wagons are in Limerick for servicing with a view to re-entry to service. There doesn't seem to be clarity about intended purpose.


  • #147
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 12,956 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    dowlingm wrote: »
    IRN rumour has it that 12 pocket wagons are in Limerick for servicing with a view to re-entry to service. There doesn't seem to be clarity about intended purpose.

    DPDS didn't pull out of rail freight here; they just hadn't enough loads to keep up their committed contract for now. Suffice to say, they will be back; it's just a case of when.

    Incidentally, I have heard of a potential new freight flow that is likely to come in after the new year. A regular daytime path has been freed up for it and it will involve container loads.


  • #148
    davidlacey
    Registered Users Posts: 416 ✭✭davidlacey


    are containers the only real future for railfreight in ireland? anymore details on where in which this flow in the new year will be i.e ballina to waterford via kildare


  • #149
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    davidlacey - the future of railfreight in Ireland is, in the main, whatever the port companies and the freight forwarders want it to be as long as IE doesn't bear losses.


  • #150
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 12,956 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    davidlacey wrote: »
    are containers the only real future for railfreight in ireland? anymore details on where in which this flow in the new year will be i.e ballina to waterford via kildare

    Zinc and lead ore from Navan will be good for some years to come. The likelyhood of the Tipperary/Limerick Zinc deposits becoming viable traffic from Foynes is quite high given their projected volume of traffic will be similar to that from Navan and that it's virtually door to door.

    Overall, the universal future of modern rail freight is pre packed containers/pallets or mineral ore; loads which have minimal loading time at freight heads. The day of sundries and mixed customer trains are fading away though they will have a role in some circumstances.


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  • #151
    LivelineDipso
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 510 ✭✭✭LivelineDipso


    Losty Dublin wrote: »

    Overall, the universal future of modern rail freight is pre packed containers/pallets or mineral ore; loads which have minimal loading time at freight heads. The day of sundries and mixed customer trains are fading away though they will have a role in some circumstances.

    In many countries wagonload is thriving too. Depends on the mentality of the rail operator.

    We do not have a rail operator with a mind.

    As for the Tipp mining, I would not be too optimistic that ever going by rail. I would be amazed if Foynes ever saw another train. I was down there last week and the route has fallen into bits in the last 2 years.

    The CIE 'Care and Maintainance' or 'Keep on Trucking' program is the only show down there now.


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