3 New Navy Vessels for Irish Naval Service

sparky42 · 10-01-2019 10:40pm

Heraldoffreeent wrote: »

Ah.............you're grand.....................

:P

jonnybigwallet · 12-01-2019 7:45pm

Thanks lads! First things first. No point talking about a new ship unless there is a crew. Big pay rise needed to guarentee that. Second point...get rid of that ridiculous uniforrm with "EIRE" written all over it!

mikeym · 13-01-2019 10:35pm

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

Thanks lads! First things first. No point talking about a new ship unless there is a crew. Big pay rise needed to guarentee that. Second point...get rid of that ridiculous uniforrm with "EIRE" written all over it!

The lads want pay restoration and Proper remuneration for going to sea.

The Number One Ratings hat is the only piece of kit that has Eire on it.

Leonidas BL · 13-01-2019 10:45pm

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

Thanks lads! First things first. No point talking about a new ship unless there is a crew. Big pay rise needed to guarentee that. Second point...get rid of that ridiculous uniforrm with "EIRE" written all over it!

Whats wrong with having EIRE written on anything?

sparky42 · 13-01-2019 10:49pm

mikeym wrote: »

The lads want pay restoration and Proper remuneration for going to sea.

The Number One Ratings hat is the only piece of kit that has Eire on it.

Sadly given the increasing likelihood of a Hard Brexit with the knock ons that will automatically have on the economy and budget I can't see much more than whatever the pay review body comes up with. And with the much larger demands in the Health sector coming to a head as well the space is going to be limited.

Larbre34 · 13-01-2019 11:03pm

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

Thanks lads! First things first. No point talking about a new ship unless there is a crew. Big pay rise needed to guarentee that. Second point...get rid of that ridiculous uniforrm with "EIRE" written all over it!

If you don't like the country, the Airport is that way. - - - >

In other navies, ratings caps would include the name of the vessel. Such is the size of ours and the interchangeability of crew rosters, thats impractical. Éire is a perfectly obvious and appropriate solution.

jonnybigwallet · 21-01-2019 7:12pm

Interesting article in todays UK Times newspaper about the 3rd contender for the type 31 frigate. Its a development of the well proven Meko a200 class and in service with many nations. Also appears to be the correct length to fit in the dock at Haulbowline. There's a grand photograph of the ship and I must say it's a wee cracker. The weapons fit is very comprehensive but not huge numbers of each item on board, so maybe not too challenging for the auld budget. And to put the icing on the cake they are planning to buid it at H&W in Belfast! I reckon the NS have a fair few CIW bits and pieces salvaged from recent sales and potentially from the Eithne which could defray some of the costs. Hope you all find this proposal interesting.

sparky42 · 21-01-2019 10:23pm

If that frigate is meant to fit into the £250 million bracket then the RN must be pulling pretty much everything from the 23's to get them. I mean if you take the latest version to Algeria the entire contract for 2 with an option for 2 and 6 Super Lynx was $2.7 billion all up (https://quwa.org/2015/09/22/meko-a-200an-algerias-new-warships/). Even stripping out the ASM's, SAM's, and Lynxs I can't see how a functioning hull would be under 500 million if that's the price they paid for 2. There's also the issue of H&W, wonder given the relatively low amount of actually ship building work they've done if they would be able to meet the price cap as well?

As for what the Navy has, nothing. The 20mm's have moved ship to ship as soon as they were decommissioned (how many surplus mounts did we actually buy from Germany in the first place?), and Eithne's 57mm will have to be replaced with a 76mm, it's search radar doesn't work anymore...

Heraldoffreeent · 21-01-2019 11:34pm

sparky42 wrote: »

If that frigate is meant to fit into the £250 million bracket then the RN must be pulling pretty much everything from the 23's to get them. I mean if you take the latest version to Algeria the entire contract for 2 with an option for 2 and 6 Super Lynx was $2.7 billion all up (https://quwa.org/2015/09/22/meko-a-200an-algerias-new-warships/). Even stripping out the ASM's, SAM's, and Lynxs I can't see how a functioning hull would be under 500 million if that's the price they paid for 2. There's also the issue of H&W, wonder given the relatively low amount of actually ship building work they've done if they would be able to meet the price cap as well?

As for what the Navy has, nothing. The 20mm's have moved ship to ship as soon as they were decommissioned (how many surplus mounts did we actually buy from Germany in the first place?), and Eithne's 57mm will have to be replaced with a 76mm, it's search radar doesn't work anymore...

Plus its highly unlikely the Brits will ever buy that, the Type 31 is supposed to be exportable, and there's no way it will make economic sense for a third country to buy a British modded version of a German design.

sparky42 · 22-01-2019 12:04am

Heraldoffreeent wrote: »

Plus its highly unlikely the Brits will ever buy that, the Type 31 is supposed to be exportable, and there's no way it will make economic sense for a third country to buy a British modded version of a German design.

That was mentioned as a concern over the ownership of the IP alright, add in the "dominace" BAE holds in UK defence spending and I'd say the Meko is going to come up third, though still wonder how that 250 million ceiling cap is going to hold while still producing something of use to the RN. I mean when you consider a Holland class OPV or a BAM class OPV runs €150 million as is even with pull through from the 23's it seems a big ask.

Heraldoffreeent · 22-01-2019 12:17am

sparky42 wrote: »

That was mentioned as a concern over the ownership of the IP alright, add in the "dominace" BAE holds in UK defence spending and I'd say the Meko is going to come up third, though still wonder how that 250 million ceiling cap is going to hold while still producing something of use to the RN. I mean when you consider a Holland class OPV or a BAM class OPV runs €150 million as is even with pull through from the 23's it seems a big ask.

Add to that the purchasing power of Sterling versus the Euro. In may 2016 the Pound had 30% premium on the Euro, today it has a 13% premium, and the UK is going to have to buy some raw materials and components from the EU.

And thats not taking any account of WTO, or whatever is put in place post Brexit.

sparky42 · 22-01-2019 12:35am

Heraldoffreeent wrote: »

Add to that the purchasing power of Sterling versus the Euro. In may 2016 the Pound had 30% premium on the Euro, today it has a 13% premium, and the UK is going to have to buy some raw materials and components from the EU.

And thats not taking any account of WTO, or whatever is put in place post Brexit.

True that, in the end I wonder if IP ownership will hurt the Babcock design as well, at least BAE own their design and have more experience in building variants of it.

But still the 31 seems to be much of a unicorn that nobody really knows about other than it will be "cheap", though to be honest given the global orders of the 26 now I wonder would it just have been easier to build the 5 GP variants as planned.

jonnybigwallet · 22-01-2019 6:31pm

It doesn't really matter what the outcome of the type 31 competition is. You can order one from Blohm and Voss. In Euros.

sparky42 · 22-01-2019 6:36pm

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

It doesn't really matter what the outcome of the type 31 competition is. You can order one from Blohm and Voss. In Euros.

Which is likely to be several times the price any government is willing to pay even for the most bare bones version you could get. If you go off the price Algeria paid then I can already see the headlines of "1/3-1/2 of the Children's hospital", or "x homeless while Ireland militarises". The price tag is just too high, nor is it capable in it's current configuration of preforming the planned sealift that was meant to be part of the MPV. The Type 31 variant might (but unlikely) but that's still a paper design.

roadmaster · 22-01-2019 8:53pm

There is no memtion of ciara and orlas replacements are we going to end up keeping the two sisters for a while yet?

jonnybigwallet · 22-01-2019 9:36pm

I'm still mullin over that one meself. I'm looking at some very capable Russian kit at the moment which might well fit the bill!.

sparky42 · 22-01-2019 10:01pm

roadmaster wrote: »

There is no memtion of ciara and orlas replacements are we going to end up keeping the two sisters for a while yet?

Nah they will be the last to be replaced, I mean we have the MPV and the CASA replacements to pay for first, that's pretty much 300-400 million.

sparky42 · 22-01-2019 10:03pm

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

I'm still mullin over that one meself. I'm looking at some very capable Russian kit at the moment which might well fit the bill!.

Why? We are a NATO standard military, we aren't going to be buying Russian kit particularly not with the current geopolitical environment. Given the "foggy" WP position on it I think wed have to wait to see how the Post Brexit Irish Sea environment is first for their replacements.

Heraldoffreeent · 22-01-2019 10:24pm

sparky42 wrote: »

Why? We are a NATO standard military, we aren't going to be buying Russian kit particularly not with the current geopolitical environment. Given the "foggy" WP position on it I think wed have to wait to see how the Post Brexit Irish Sea environment is first for their replacements.

Lookit don' be comin' along here with yer oul' facts, JohnnyB'll just flash d'oul An Post Gold card at Your Johnny Rooshian, an' 2 X Stare-ah-goooosheys be sailin' up by Queenstown in jig time, both loaded for Bear.

jonnybigwallet · 23-01-2019 4:00pm

Somebody deleted my last post. Own up..whi dunnit?

Leonidas BL · 23-01-2019 4:02pm

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

Somebody deleted my last post. Own up..whi dunnit?

Ya own up, you deserve a medal

jonnybigwallet · 23-01-2019 4:07pm

I expected a bit of support from you Leo..and I put a lot of effort into that one

Leonidas BL · 23-01-2019 4:12pm

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

I expected a bit of support from you Leo..and I put a lot of effort into that one

Im sorry Jonny, keep up the good work

:o

jonnybigwallet · 23-01-2019 4:19pm

Did ypu manage to read my last post Leo?

jonnybigwallet · 23-01-2019 5:17pm

Don't worry! Probably an IT issue. I'll repost it in a bit!

Savage93 · 23-01-2019 5:38pm

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

Somebody deleted my last post. Own up..whi dunnit?

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

jonnybigwallet · 23-01-2019 5:43pm

Most disappointing response all round...Obviously not a place for patriots to be hangin about. No respect for freedom of speech.

roadmaster · 23-01-2019 7:35pm

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

Most disappointing response all round...Obviously not a place for patriots to be hangin about. No respect for freedom of speech.

Id say you hit a nerve with the navy and they rang J2 who hacked boards.ie and deleted your post. It’s the only thing I think that could explain it

Heraldoffreeent · 23-01-2019 8:47pm

roadmaster wrote: »

Id say you hit a nerve with the navy and they rang J2 who hacked boards.ie and deleted your post. It’s the only thing I think that could explain it

Yeah, they were worried that Johnny had rumbled their dastardly plans to buy Russian frigates and 40 year old jets.

Now the ARW are looking to track down the leaker and execute.

Watch out for the extrajudicial killings lads..................

sparky42 · 23-01-2019 9:07pm

In terms of the future purchase of the MPV, while it hasn't of course been talked about is buying a ship with helicopter capability without the AC having any helicopters to use on them. Now to start if we are going to be doing more multinational ops like the Med there's no reason why we couldn't have a foreign group use it and help bring the skillset of the NS back up to spec for it.

But what will be a likely option for the AC if/when the question comes round? I mean the military 139's don't have folding rotors it won't do (and I really hope we aren't stupid enough to get another "first of type"), what would be the option that might be on the running? Next question our green 139's are only 13 years old so they aren't going anywhere soon, would we end up with a subset of new airframes?

3 New Navy Vessels for Irish Naval Service

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