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02-08-2020, 12:54   #586
eagle eye
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Originally Posted by ToddDameron
5 or 6 Premier League medals is a good deal more impressive than 5 or 6 All Ireland Medals.
Did you read his comment or just read 5 or 6 All-Ireland medals?
His point was the number of medals is not that important as there's plenty of players you wouldn't rate with lots of them.
Nicky Butt has 6 Premier league medals, is he in the top ten players in the history of the premier league? Ryan Giggs has 13, does that make him the best ever?
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02-08-2020, 13:22   #587
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Did you read his comment or just read 5 or 6 All-Ireland medals?
His point was the number of medals is not that important as there's plenty of players you wouldn't rate with lots of them.
Nicky Butt has 6 Premier league medals, is he in the top ten players in the history of the premier league? Ryan Giggs has 13, does that make him the best ever?
Did you read the thread title? I would say Giggs is up there with the greatest ever Welsh sports stars. Nicky Butt not so much, as there are a string of English players with more medals and better stats, or at least have made more of an impact on the winning team. He should be regarded as a great player though, you don't get carried to that many titles. There are also English sportsmen outside of football that are more successful. With Ireland the list isn't that long and Keane did both, had a massive impact on the team and won loads of medals.

A lot of Kilkenny All Ireland players being lost to obscurity is just evidence that's it's not that big of an achievement. An Irishman going abroad and winning 6 or more titles is a much bigger deal, And definitely evidence of being a great sportsman.

Last edited by ToddDameron; 02-08-2020 at 14:14.
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02-08-2020, 13:33   #588
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It appears that for many, medals won in the top English soccer league, more specifically from the introduction of "The Premier League" in 1992, are the only true barometer for sporting prowess or success on a national or international level.

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02-08-2020, 13:41   #589
ToddDameron
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Originally Posted by Rockbeast2 View Post
It appears that for many, medals won in the top English soccer league, more specifically from the introduction of "The Premier League" in 1992, are the only true barometer for sporting prowess or success on a national or international level.

No one has said that. Competing with the world's best is a lot tougher than competing in amateur sport at a national level though. Sonia O Sullivan and Katie Taylor and many others have been rightly mentioned in the discussion too, because they went up against the best in the world. The Premier League has only been mentioned in the case of whether Keane specifically deserves to be regarded as the greatest Irish sports person.

It's interesting that you use Moran's 88 and 90 international appearances as evidence of his greatness, but say that Keane not winning anything on an international level is evidence of failure. You just don't like him do you? Try to be objective about it.

Last edited by ToddDameron; 02-08-2020 at 13:54.
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02-08-2020, 13:43   #590
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I would give it to Sonia. Competing at the top in a very competitive sport for over a decade. World champion a few times, Olympic medalist, Europeans you name it. We forget how good she actually was.
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02-08-2020, 14:04   #591
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Originally Posted by ToddDameron View Post

It's interesting that you use Moran's 88 and 90 international appearances as evidence of his greatness, but say that Keane not winning anything on an international level is evidence of failure. You just don't like him do you? Try to be objective about it.
I have nothing against Keane. Have cheered him on always for Ireland and often in Europe with Man Utd.

The main reason for my, admittedly left-field, choice of Moran is that he switched sports from GAA to soccer and had success in both.

TBH I'd have Cork's Teddy McCarthy ahead of Keane for achievement of winning Football and Hurling All Irelands in same year.

Other GAA shouts would be Shefflin and Cluxton.

Sonia, Harrington and O'Driscoll have huge claims, too.

I'll leave my contributions to this thread here!
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03-08-2020, 00:12   #592
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Originally Posted by ToddDameron View Post
He never said he ended Haland's career in his book, because Haland's career ended due to an existing injury in his other leg, which is what it says in the comment you quoted.
Meh either way, it still stands that he is unlikeable.
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03-08-2020, 02:36   #593
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Meh either way, it still stands that he is unlikeable.
I tend to agree, that's irrelevant in a discussion about sporting achievements though.
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03-08-2020, 10:05   #594
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Was she not stripped of medals for drug abuse?
No, she still has them. She never tested positive for anything. She tampered with her piss test, apparently her test stank of whiskey. She should’ve gone with the tried and tested contamination method of wiping your arsehole with your finger and dipping it in the test. Slightly more plausible than producing a piss test that stinks and looks like a double shot of Jameson rare. Multiple accounts her dodging tests since the olympics. Quite a successful barrister now. Cheating cnut.
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03-08-2020, 10:11   #595
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Ye he's certainly achieved the most anyway although i would say not the most naturally gifted Irish athlete ever. For me for raw talent Brady is our finest ever footballer not counting Best who played for NI. People mentioning Katie Taylor etc listen she's an incredible athlete but it's a really tiny minority sport you just can't compare it with an Irish man being captain and indispensable to at the time the biggest team in by far the world's biggest sport. Love him or hate him nobody else get's close to Roy Keane in terms of what he achieved in his sport.
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03-08-2020, 10:34   #596
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He left to further his career, it's a higher standard which he would not have been able to play, as Ireland were not a test nation, by that reasoning, Roy Keane should never have left Cobh Ramblers
That is not remotely comparable

Even cricket has club/ county competition which allows them to represent their national team too

Keane left Cobh , a club, for a bigger football club. He played for the national team at several age levels, when it suited him

Morgan switched national team
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03-08-2020, 10:52   #597
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Originally Posted by ToddDameron View Post
Not really, you play an enormous amount of games when taking cups into consideration and have to consistently perform week in and week out (against players from all over the world) to keep your place, and at a top club you will be replaced if you don't. Constant international scrutiny and pressure from fans, management and media. To do all of that 5 or 6 times is remarkable, and the wages and prize money reflect that.
They get paid to suck up that pressure. They get paid handsomely . They basically get their arse’s wiped for them. They don’t have to worry about bills or work. Everything is laid out for them at training

Unless they are into social media, those professionals don’t have to listen to one word or read one line of criticism from the rest of the world . Certainly not From the pie eating fan in the stands

A GAA player has to go into his 9-5 job (or more) on Monday morning . (Not all of them are teachers or Gardai or soldiers - jobs that are lenient on getting time off ) . They have to listEn to the bar stool managers who barely made the club team ,mouthing off about what went wrong and how they’d do it . If they want to go for a sneaky pint or have a cigarette, there will always be one local bollox ringing up the manager of the county team complaining . The jealousy of some people is unreal against county players , especially from club players .

Oh sure, Fergie was infamous for having spies in all the pubs in Manchester , but GAA lads don’t get paid ,yet are expected to be professional

Multiple GAA men have to do 2-3 hour Return car journeys down from Dublin or other big cities to train for the county twice a week (Jobs or studying in Dublin)

Even in Dublin, I recall 2001, Dublin went through the qualifiers and had a good run. Ray Cosgrove was their main sharp shooter. Kerry v Dublin Replay was one of the big two games that season (played in Stemple Stadium of all places) Ray bursted into the county scene.

A few weeks later The sport pages reported that Ray was left go from his job (electrician or some other construction related job ) because he couldn’t commit to doing over time hours due to his GAA commitments (as you know, building industry was booming )

Now had he won an All Ireland , that would be some going. The Donegal lads in college Or work in Dublin and Galway Have a long trek every week . It just as bad for the smaller counties

County teams have big turn over of players because players can’t commit due to work or studies - yet the fans expect those counties to still compete For All Ireland’s . Counties don’t receive any compensation for the lost of a player

Professionals sports teams sell on players and can replace them with better players if they pay the money

A county has just the same amount of pressure and scrutiny in their world as a Premier League team winning the EPL

Last edited by Randy Archer; 03-08-2020 at 10:58.
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03-08-2020, 10:57   #598
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Originally Posted by munsterlegend View Post
I would give it to Sonia. Competing at the top in a very competitive sport for over a decade. World champion a few times, Olympic medalist, Europeans you name it. We forget how good she actually was.
She did fold on the big stage though. Atlanta 1996 a true reminder. She should have won gold in Sydney too.
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03-08-2020, 10:59   #599
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She did fold on the big stage though. Atlanta 1996 a true reminder. She should have won gold in Sydney too.
She was ill. It happens. Clean sports people aren’t machines . She didn’t walk out on her country over a needless row . She didn’t pick and chose when to turn up for events

Olympics are not the be all and end all , way too emphasis is played on that in her sport. World championships also matter
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03-08-2020, 11:08   #600
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She was ill. It happens. Clean sports people aren’t machines . She didn’t walk out on her country over a needless row . She didn’t pick and chose when to turn up for events

Olympics are not the be all and end all , way too emphasis is played on that in her sport. World championships also matter

What happened in 2000 and 2004 Olympics to her? She was ill in 1996 fair enough but she didn't have to loose the rag with Tony Considine after she came last in the race. It sumed her up for me to be honest.
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