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31-07-2020, 16:49   #541
Randy Archer
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Originally Posted by cj maxx View Post
So was his drug dealer better?
Nothing against SK or SR but with all that has come out about cyclists and drug taking , while we will always fondly remember the sight of Charlie swigging champagne in Paris, that golden age of cycling has lost its allure for me.
Well, the Italians courts in 1993 had a certain view about Roche, so.. Roche denies it all and has never been proven (anything else is liable so we shall move on)

Cycling was huge in Ireland back then lol , with the RAS getting proper tv coverage and the Nissan International that made towns like Boyle famous and relevant

Ah, there’s some good stories in cycling again. Eg peter Sagan ,even Sky /Ineos is amusing just to see the reaction of their fan boys vs the “haters” . Phil Gilbert is still a total Ledge . Our own Sam Bennett is doing very well . Best is the hype for Remco and Van Der Pool (who died on his arse in York at the worlds last year ,having the cheek to claim he would win it despite only having half a season - both lads got hype for winning minor races - semi classics are minor, brah );
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31-07-2020, 16:52   #542
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You missed the point, baby
The topic is: whose the best Irish sports person

Said people ain’t Irish .

The quote about Belfast being as European as Paris is laughable too , not to mention mentioning Europe in order to pretend that Belfast is an Irish city
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31-07-2020, 16:53   #543
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Your having a laugh, the other 3 are only legends by Irish Standards. Keane is a legend by world standards, he's one of the best players to ever play in English football.
Liam Brady is still a legend in Italy 30 years later. Keane never played for side outside a British or Irish league.
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31-07-2020, 16:57   #544
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The topic is: whose the best Irish sports person

Said people ain’t Irish .

Yes they are. They are Northern Irish and also Birtish citizens. I can also tell you that anyone in England for example will regard someone from NI as Irish.

What you are saying is akin to saying Gareth Bale ain't Welsh. He is British- which is still true but "British" or "Britishness" is a collective term for the English, Scots, Welsh and NI.

Interestingly the official title is "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland".

A person from NI is British citizen (or subject) but NI is not part of Britain. It is part of the United Kingdom.
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31-07-2020, 17:02   #545
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Liam Brady is still a legend in Italy 30 years later. Keane never played for side outside a British or Irish league.

Brady is still a legand but I wouldnt criticise Keane for not playing in mainland Europe. Plenty of players stick to one league.
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31-07-2020, 17:09   #546
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This statement demonstrates your particular lack of understanding in discussing the relative legacies of either Roche or Kelly; no-one with even a cursory interest in cycling would claim Armstrong was the greatest - he never won a Monument.
The Tour de France is greatly overrated too And way too much focus on it by the casuals

I accept that even in one days, you need a team to do all the heavy work for the first 160km etc , but the Tour can be very boring in stages. Even the bunch sprints can be boring (Last two editions were fun)

. You can win a tour without winning a stage eg LeMond and Froome ( or even a TT) So kudos to guys like Segan who compete for the sprints and the win and come back and try again after a few bad days in the mountains . It he’d come no where in the GC . In Kelly’s time, he was top 10 in several TDF GC while winning The Green jersey .

The GC lads take it handy in the first week bar the team TT . (Though the last two editions, the organisers changed things up )

Anyway, the Giro has been fantastic in the last few years , always something crazy going on, even when Roche won his. there was loads of drama . Very unpredictable Race , like the Italians themselves .

Tom Doumlon (excuse the spelling ) win /Quintaina choking was a special one in 2017, even Froomes win in 2018 . The 2014 tour which came to Ireland was a good edition too

The Vuelta is often overlooked but since they shortened the race length it’s very explosive , you got lads who are coming off a disappointing or a decent TDF going all out to win races

With one day events, MONUMENTS matter ! **** the lottery that is the world championship. Bar Amstel Gold , sod the semi classics and mid mid week races (looking at you Mr Sagan )

St Patrick’s week (Milan San Remro) to last week end of April, each weekend a major race with Paris Roubaix , Flanders, (then Amstel) liege Baston Liege ... hard riding , not a day for taking it handy . Very few riders compete in all 4 monuments and the semi classics like Amstel (other monument in October )

Monuments matter. Most of the great Tour de France winners and contenders have won at least one monument (or least placed ,Contador )

Armstrong , who was down as a future one day star didn’t win a lot when he raced before cancer. A world championship (meh, end of season ,it’s a lottery) and a semi classic. Poor record in monuments , (the few he rode in) post cancer he rode very little , just the Criterium and TDF and then stop for the season . Least Contador took part in early season stage races like Paris Nice . Valverde,lol, didn’t matter what is was he just rode and has his fair share of wins (won Vuelta )

Last edited by Randy Archer; 31-07-2020 at 17:13.
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31-07-2020, 17:19   #547
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Yes they are. They are Northern Irish and also Birtish citizens. I can also tell you that anyone in England for example will regard someone from NI as Irish.

What you are saying is akin to saying Gareth Bale ain't Welsh. He is British- which is still true but "British" or "Britishness" is a collective term for the English, Scots, Welsh and NI.

Interestingly the official title is "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland".

A person from NI is British citizen (or subject) but NI is not part of Britain. It is part of the United Kingdom.
You can’t be both. Either one or the other, really. The Brits legally still see them as British as of birth . Northern Irish ain’t a nationality either and Northern Ireland Ain’t Ireland .There no such thing as Northern Irish citizenship. It certainly is not the same as Irish citizenship even if it existed

The British government and Northern Ireland Courts were quite clear about that in the De Souza immigration case (before you look it up and note that the couple finally got what they wanted, it still was not an overruling of the court case on the interpretation of the GFA. An administrative decision was made to accommodate the situation that avoided re looking at GFA and the clear bad faith of the British over what GFA really means to them )

So the English lad will class a Nordie as Irish, oh how lovely. Sure the rugby mob still class Ireland as a Home Nation and it is the United Kingdom of Great Britain AND Northern Ireland . Sure they always claim the Irish north and south as British , when it suits .Unionist class the six counties as Ulster, conveniently ignoring that the full 9 counties would have them in a spot of bother

Gareth Bale ? Lol how ? Wales is PART OF Great BRITAIN . It’s legal jurisdiction is England AND Wales . There’s no dispute over the territory of Wales as to what “country” it is . Bar a tiny tiny minority , the Welsh are content with remaining British

NI is part of the U.K. Ireland is NOT part of the U.K.

Not the same

The Gaul of “geniuses “ and fantasist like you to suggest that one missed the point . Dream land ain’t the same as reality, chief

Last edited by Randy Archer; 31-07-2020 at 17:26.
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31-07-2020, 17:20   #548
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Originally Posted by teednab-el View Post
Il name a few who derserve a mention as they were successful in the big stage.

Roy Keane
Paul McGrath
Brian O Driscoll
Ronan O Gara
Katie Taylor
Conor Mc Gregor
Stephen Roche
Sean Kelly
Michael Crute
Michelle de Brun
Eddie Jordan

Should be in most lists.
Add in Jack O'Shea for example.
Some of the great Dublin/Down of the 60's 70's.
No word of international sports star in the title.!
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31-07-2020, 17:44   #549
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Liam Brady is still a legend in Italy 30 years later. Keane never played for side outside a British or Irish league.
I may have the facts wrong, but around 1980 the Italian League was the big money league in Europe.
When Italian teams were allowed sign foreign players in 1980 (I think one player a team) Juventus chose Brady.
Juventus won the League in 1981 and 1982.
When Brady left Juventus in summer 1982 his replacement at Juventus was Michel Platini of Saint-Etienne (French league winners in 1981).
Platini was French captain in the 1982 World Cup.
France were knocked out in the semi-finals on penalties by West Germany, 3-3 after extra time, after leading 3-1 in extra time.
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31-07-2020, 17:50   #550
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Originally Posted by partyguinness View Post

A person from NI is British citizen (or subject) but NI is not part of Britain. It is part of the United Kingdom.
Depends on what passport they have. Some wont agree with that statement. Not all NI citizens have British passports. Half of them have Irish passports and see themselves as Nationalists not Unionists. 'Irish' passport in these terms refers to a republican passport.

Last edited by teednab-el; 31-07-2020 at 17:55.
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31-07-2020, 17:53   #551
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Originally Posted by partyguinness View Post

but "British" or "Britishness" is a collective term for the English, Scots, Welsh and NI.
Not correct.

Great Britain = England Scotland and Wales
United Kingdom = England Scotland Wales and NI
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31-07-2020, 23:06   #552
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Originally Posted by partyguinness View Post
Athletics
Ronnie Delaney
Eamonn Coughlan
John Tracey
FFS.

Delany
Coghlan
Treacy
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01-08-2020, 06:45   #553
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Originally Posted by The Tetrarch View Post
I may have the facts wrong, but around 1980 the Italian League was the big money league in Europe.
When Italian teams were allowed sign foreign players in 1980 (I think one player a team) Juventus chose Brady.
Juventus won the League in 1981 and 1982.
When Brady left Juventus in summer 1982 his replacement at Juventus was Michel Platini of Saint-Etienne (French league winners in 1981).
Platini was French captain in the 1982 World Cup.
France were knocked out in the semi-finals on penalties by West Germany, 3-3 after extra time, after leading 3-1 in extra time.
Your facts are correct. Juve bought him for €500,000. He was the play maker on the team that won 2 consecutive Seria A titles, many Juve fans were unhappy with him being being replaced by Platini.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFOK03X5NLM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moNuQdF4kvo

In the second link try count the number of times the Italian commentator says Brady. Note the other names Baresi, and Rumminger, he was the dominant playmaking force in teams and a league that just dripped with the names that will never be forgotten on the World stage.

Brady was the Irishman who showed the Italians how to play possesion football.
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01-08-2020, 09:35   #554
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Padraig Harrington is the best sports person we have ever produced. For those of you with little to no interest in golf, just look up his achievements in 2007 and 2008 alone. He was the best player in the world, not on official rankings though - he was 3rd, but on form. He was playing unbelievable golf and won three majors in 12 months which won’t ever be done again by an Irish golfer. On top of his talent and achievements he’s an unbelievably nice man and a great ambassador for Ireland.

Roy Keane being nominated is a joke and is being heralded as the greatest by biased Man United fans. Keane wasn’t even the best player in the Man United team and wouldn’t be in the top 3 midfielders to play in the Premier League. That’s a fact.
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01-08-2020, 12:03   #555
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I didn't mean to be disrespectful to Roy Keane in my previous post, no doubt he was a great player. But he was a cog in a domestically dominant Manchester Utd team. A Manchester Utd team that won the league before he joined and continued to have success after he left.

He "won" a European Cup without playing in the final. A Champions League that, if memory serves, they weren't even Premier League champions upon entry. It was calamity after calamity for Utd in Europe during the majority of Keane's time there.

You could write a book about Keane's attitude to Ireland; Saipan, Iran, attitude to friendly games, etc.. I'm pretty sure he was giving out about the U-21 set-up when he was 18/19.

Greatest Irish sportsperson? No thanks.

* Graeme Souness was arguably a better player than Roy, objectively more successful as both a player and manager. Are we really going to say that Graeme Souness (I've met him - he's a sound guy) as a sportsperson is superior to Ireland's greatest sportsperson? I don't want to live in that world! ;-)
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