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Are non-monitored systems an effective deterrent?

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Comments

  • #32
    kub
    Registered Users Posts: 6,528 ✭✭✭kub


    saabsaab wrote: »
    Some uk website about a survey of ex burglars..


    While I agree with everything as listed, I have to wonder is it a case of alarms going without saying.


    It is hard to beat a vicious dog ;)


  • #33
    WhyTheFace
    Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭WhyTheFace


    Can I ask a genuine question...

    While I decide what system to go with I bought a blink mini for 40e which looks right down on the area of concern.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/introducing-blink-mini-compact-indoor-plug-in-smart-security-camera-1080-hd-video-motion-detection-works-with-alexa/dp/B07X37DT9M?ref_=ast_sto_dp


    When it detects motion outside my window it will record 20-30 seconds of video and send it to me via the app on my phone. I can press a button on the app and talk through the speaker on the camera to whoever is in my apt.

    What is the difference between me seeing someone in my apt and calling the cops and a monitored security system provider?

    Granted, I may not always have my phone to hand but unfortunately I almost always do!


  • #34
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    A monitored alarm system, like phonewatch, do not live stream footage from your home.
    If you see someone in your house you can ring gardai immediately & tell them there is an intruder in your house at that time.


  • #35
    kub
    Registered Users Posts: 6,528 ✭✭✭kub


    bubblypop wrote: »
    A monitored alarm system, like phonewatch, do not live stream footage from your home.
    If you see someone in your house you can ring gardai immediately & tell them there is an intruder in your house at that time.

    They do live stream, they use PIR cameras.
    Their control room.staff can therefore see into peoples homes.


  • #36
    kub
    Registered Users Posts: 6,528 ✭✭✭kub


    WhyTheFace wrote: »
    Can I ask a genuine question...

    While I decide what system to go with I bought a blink mini for 40e which looks right down on the area of concern.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/introducing-blink-mini-compact-indoor-plug-in-smart-security-camera-1080-hd-video-motion-detection-works-with-alexa/dp/B07X37DT9M?ref_=ast_sto_dp


    When it detects motion outside my window it will record 20-30 seconds of video and send it to me via the app on my phone. I can press a button on the app and talk through the speaker on the camera to whoever is in my apt.

    What is the difference between me seeing someone in my apt and calling the cops and a monitored security system provider?

    Granted, I may not always have my phone to hand but unfortunately I almost always do!

    In an ideal world that is a perfect solution.

    But if you do not have an appropriate signal level on your phone at that particular time, then you may not be able to receive the footage to your phone.

    The camera could get blocked by someone

    The electricity in your home could be off for whatever reason.

    As I said, ideal world yes.


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  • #37
    Yourmama
    Registered Users Posts: 205 ✭✭Yourmama


    WhyTheFace wrote:
    When it detects motion outside my window it will record 20-30 seconds of video and send it to me via the app on my phone. I can press a button on the app and talk through the speaker on the camera to whoever is in my apt.


    Person I know house was burgled not so long time ago. The first thing they did after getting in was to cut off internet, and the video hasn't uploaded to cloud. Luckily notification of movement went through in time so the person rang neighbours who disturbed burglars. Good neighbor is your best friend.


  • #38
    tiredcity
    Registered Users Posts: 278 ✭✭tiredcity


    OP, have the ring alarm and cam for over a year now as took the chance to get it before it was officially released here. Very satisfied in that period, works well and if you do want to be alerted there's now a subscription option (think approx 100e/month) that will notify keyholders and upload any video via 3g/4g so doesn't matter if they disconnect the wifi. The devices all have battery backup. Customer service excellent if you have any issues. Not an ad but do find them very good!


  • #39
    machiavellianme
    Registered Users Posts: 12,380 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    Get an ajax alarm. They're professional grade but simple enough to install DIY. You can use it unmonitored or you can pay home secure or others to monitor it for you down the line. This forum has lots of threads on Ajax (as does the home automation one).


  • #40
    tiredcity
    Registered Users Posts: 278 ✭✭tiredcity


    Sorry 100e/year �� Half asleep!


  • #41
    kub
    Registered Users Posts: 6,528 ✭✭✭kub


    tiredcity wrote: »
    OP, have the ring alarm and cam for over a year now as took the chance to get it before it was officially released here. Very satisfied in that period, works well and if you do want to be alerted there's now a subscription option (think approx 100e/month) that will notify keyholders and upload any video via 3g/4g so doesn't matter if they disconnect the wifi. The devices all have battery backup. Customer service excellent if you have any issues. Not an ad but do find them very good!


    I think that GSM back up to Wifi is essential, any alarm system that is fitted to the appropriate standard will continue to operate in the event of a power cut, an internet router will not.


    Therefore that false economy of relying solely on notifications from Wifi/ Lan becomes very blatant all of a sudden.


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  • #42
    grogi
    Registered Users Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    kub wrote: »
    I think that GSM back up to Wifi is essential, any alarm system that is fitted to the appropriate standard will continue to operate in the event of a power cut, an internet router will not.

    You need to design in line with the security risks.

    Power cuts are extremely rare and probability of an intruder going after your house the moment blackout happens are minimal. Response teams will be much busier during blackouts as well, so the value of said notification massively reduces.

    If you however consider GSM backup because you're afraid of an intruder that will orchestrate a power cut to your property, you really have bigger issues and an alarm off amazon is not the solution.


  • #43
    NaFirinne
    Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭NaFirinne


    What I have done is I have an alarm system that sends a message to the phone if activated.

    I have a staffy that barks if anyone comes close to the house or even touches the car outside. Great watchdog at night actually. The Dog is normally friendly but at night time or if someone is wearing a huddy, helmet or covering there face it doesn't like it at all.

    Also we have setup a neighbourhood whatsapp group. So in the event of one of our alarms triggering or some unusual activitiy occuring we can message the group and one of the neighbours will check in on the house.

    We also have CCTV setup to check footage after an event.


  • #44
    kub
    Registered Users Posts: 6,528 ✭✭✭kub


    grogi wrote: »
    You need to design in line with the security risks.

    Power cuts are extremely rare and probability of an intruder going after your house the moment blackout happens are minimal. Response teams will be much busier during blackouts as well, so the value of said notification massively reduces.

    If you however consider GSM backup because you're afraid of an intruder that will orchestrate a power cut to your property, you really have bigger issues and an alarm off amazon is not the solution.

    Power cuts in a modern house can be done very easily by accessing the typical external meter box cabinet.

    Neverlone the adjoining phone line cabinet.

    The bottom line is, you get what you pay for.


  • #45
    WhyTheFace
    Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭WhyTheFace


    kub wrote: »
    Power cuts in a modern house can be done very easily by accessing the typical external meter box cabinet.

    Neverlone the adjoining phone line cabinet.

    The bottom line is, you get what you pay for.

    Hi Kub, yes fully agree, like everything you get what you pay for.

    I guess it's a trade off. I live on my own in a 2 bed apt. When I'm not there all that's of value is a TV, basic laptop and a wireless speaker.

    It would be a totally different story if it was a 3-4 bed family home with two cars in the drive.

    I haven't heard of any other issues in the complex. I think it is more opportunistic thiefs walking by as opposed to more serious ones.


  • #46
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 32,951 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    kub wrote: »
    In an ideal world that is a perfect solution.

    But if you do not have an appropriate signal level on your phone at that particular time, then you may not be able to receive the footage to your phone.

    The camera could get blocked by someone

    The electricity in your home could be off for whatever reason.

    As I said, ideal world yes.

    I have a 2 camera Arlo system which activates in a similar way, but the issue I have and which kind of negates the usefulness of it is that when a person walks past the camera and it activates a few seconds later, the person is gone, out of sight. Even if you increase the sensitivity of it, someone walking at normal speed will be past the camera before it starts recording.


  • #47
    micosoft
    Registered Users Posts: 2,359 ✭✭✭micosoft


    Darc19 wrote: »
    LOL, gardai will take an hour to get to the house.

    A standard alarm that sends notifications to your phone is all you need

    An hour? Gardai policy is not to respond to alarms unless "eyes" are put on the burglar i.e. a video feed confirms. They have better things to be doing than responding to nibbles the cat trying to get in for their whiskers.

    Honestly unless you have serious valuables get the cheapest alarm in order to get the discount for your insurance and then use the home insurance to pay in the fairly unlikely event you do get robbed.

    That said Covid has had a devastating impact on the Burglary sector what with people being home all the time.


  • #48
    kub
    Registered Users Posts: 6,528 ✭✭✭kub


    micosoft wrote: »
    An hour? Gardai policy is not to respond to alarms unless "eyes" are put on the burglar i.e. a video feed confirms. They have better things to be doing than responding to nibbles the cat trying to get in for their whiskers.

    Honestly unless you have serious valuables get the cheapest alarm in order to get the discount for your insurance and then use the home insurance to pay in the fairly unlikely event you do get robbed.

    That said Covid has had a devastating impact on the Burglary sector what with people being home all the time.


    You are obviously not familiar with the Garda alarm response criteria publication.
    Gardai will of course always respond to calls, in is in black and white on this publication that people in the security business are not to discuss the response time etc.

    But the point of the matter is, in order for an Intruder Alarm activation to get Garda response, in normal circumstances, then the system has to comply and be certified to EN50131 and has verification technology installed.


    Houses are also broken into when people are at home.


    As regards a discount from your insurer, again the system has to comply with EN50131, in order for it to continue to comply with that standard then it has to be serviced twice a year by a PSA licensed Intruder Alarm Company.


  • #49
    machiavellianme
    Registered Users Posts: 12,380 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    micosoft wrote: »
    An hour? Gardai policy is not to respond to alarms unless "eyes" are put on the burglar i.e. a video feed confirms. They have better things to be doing than responding to nibbles the cat trying to get in for their whiskers.

    Honestly unless you have serious valuables get the cheapest alarm in order to get the discount for your insurance and then use the home insurance to pay in the fairly unlikely event you do get robbed.

    That said Covid has had a devastating impact on the Burglary sector what with people being home all the time.

    Never claim that discount. Insurance companies will find any way out of paying that they can.
    If you are burgled the one time you didn't set the alarm, they'll use this to renege on a payout. For the sake of a miniscule discount on the premium, isn't it better to have piece of mind for full coverage without involving any alarms being set.


  • #50
    Ladyinthedark
    Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭Ladyinthedark


    I recently got a great deal to test out a new monitoring system no upfront payment and there bringing cameras in shortly with voice over if anyone comes near my property can’t wait to have it it installed if anyone want me me to refer them
    I will cause I can get a month monitoring free lol 😂


  • #51
    kub
    Registered Users Posts: 6,528 ✭✭✭kub


    Ladyinthedark wrote: »
    I recently got a great deal to test out a new monitoring system no upfront payment and there bringing cameras in shortly with voice over if anyone comes near my property can’t wait to have it it installed if anyone want me me to refer them
    I will cause I can get a month monitoring free lol ��


    Yes those cameras are great, we installed some around a premises last week, when the camera recognises a human, it announces an audible message and flashes .





    Free is great though ;)


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  • #52
    Ladyinthedark
    Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭Ladyinthedark


    kub wrote: »
    Yes those cameras are great, we installed some around a premises last week, when the camera recognises a human, it announces an audible message and flashes .





    Free is great though ;)

    Well not free but after 14 days I pay 99 euro which is kinda free for a modern wireless system


  • #53
    kub
    Registered Users Posts: 6,528 ✭✭✭kub


    Ladyinthedark wrote: »
    Well not free but after 14 days I pay 99 euro which is kinda free for a modern wireless system

    Sorry, that €99, are you paying that per month ?


  • #54
    kub
    Registered Users Posts: 6,528 ✭✭✭kub


    micosoft wrote: »
    An hour? Gardai policy is not to respond to alarms unless "eyes" are put on the burglar i.e. a video feed confirms. They have better things to be doing than responding to nibbles the cat trying to get in for their whiskers.

    Honestly unless you have serious valuables get the cheapest alarm in order to get the discount for your insurance and then use the home insurance to pay in the fairly unlikely event you do get robbed.

    That said Covid has had a devastating impact on the Burglary sector what with people being home all the time.

    Not exactly devastating;

    This is from today's Evening Echo in Cork :

    Cork city Gardaí reported a 23pc decrease in burglaries compared to last year. A total of 250 burglaries in the city division took place between January 1 and August 31 of this year. This is in contrast to 325 city burglaries that took place during the same period in 2019. The common times for burglaries are currently between 5pm and 9pm with a peak time of 8pm. Friday and Saturday are the most common days for homes to be targetted. He warned that this could change following lockdown.


  • #55
    WhyTheFace
    Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭WhyTheFace


    kub wrote: »
    Not exactly devastating;

    This is from today's Evening Echo in Cork :

    Cork city Gardaí reported a 23pc decrease in burglaries compared to last year. A total of 250 burglaries in the city division took place between January 1 and August 31 of this year. This is in contrast to 325 city burglaries that took place during the same period in 2019. The common times for burglaries are currently between 5pm and 9pm with a peak time of 8pm. Friday and Saturday are the most common days for homes to be targetted. He warned that this could change following lockdown.

    Shows I understand nothing of the mindset of a burglar. 5-9pm is when people are home after work and having dinner of tea. I would have though middle of day or at night when asleep.

    Also, surely more likely people be at home at the weekend than during the week, particularly during Covid?!


  • #56
    Ladyinthedark
    Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭Ladyinthedark


    kub wrote: »
    Sorry, that €99, are you paying that per month ?

    No I’m not there’s a monitored fee sorry about the late reply


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