Shannon airport

roundymac · 19-02-2012 12:51pm

The road network around the Shannon Limerick area is still quite poor in places. The N20 between Limerick and Cork is nothing short of a disgrace, it is now easier to go to Dublin via the M8/M7 than to Limerick/SNN from Cork.

source · 19-02-2012 1:48pm

roundymac wrote: »

The road network around the Shannon Limerick area is still quite poor in places. The N20 between Limerick and Cork is nothing short of a disgrace, it is now easier to go to Dublin via the M8/M7 than to Limerick/SNN from Cork.

While the M8 is an easier road it takes 2hours 40 mins to get from Patrick St to Dublin Airport, conversely on the N20 which granted isn't a great road, it takes an hour less to travel from Patrick Street to Shannon Airport.

Besides it doesn't really matter about Cork as they have their own airport, which is why I didn't count the population of Cork, when coming up with the figure of 700,000 people, that I earlier stated would be in the area immediately surrounding Shannon.

roundymac · 19-02-2012 4:10pm

I was talking about T/A out of SNN, Patrick ST to Snn in less than an hour, you'r joking, not within the speed limit any way.

source · 19-02-2012 5:20pm

roundymac wrote: »

I was talking about T/A out of SNN, Patrick ST to Snn in less than an hour, you'r joking, not within the speed limit any way.

I said an hour less than Patrick st to Dublin which is at least 2:40, so what I actually said was 1:40.

roundymac · 19-02-2012 5:43pm

Right, got you, but basicly the point I'm making is that is now less stressful to go to Dublin for a T/A. Before we would have never thought about anything but SNN.

Hogzy · 19-02-2012 6:10pm

roundymac wrote: »

Right, got you, but basicly the point I'm making is that is now less stressful to go to Dublin for a T/A. Before we would have never thought about anything but SNN.

It maybe less stressful but for me Shannon is still the better option primarily because it costs me less in fuel to go to Shannon from Cork City than it does to go to Dublin.
That extra hour is also nice to have when returning from a long haul journey. There is nothing worse than arriving into Dublin airport early in the morning to face M50 and Newlands Cross Traffic and then have at least 2hrs on the motorway. If the traffic is bad enough you could easily spend 1.5hrs getting from Dublin Airport to just Naas.

EDIT: and btw, unless there is no traffic at all and you are breaking speed limits. There is no way you could get from Cork City to Dublin airport in 2 and a half hours. Newlands Cross definetly but you'd need another 20 mins on the M50 before you'd be in the airport car park.

Comhrá · 19-02-2012 6:55pm

Apart from travel distances involved, a dep. or arrival to/from Shannon is generally a far more relaxed affair than Dublin. Car park to dep. building in Shannon is a 150 meter walk and from my last memory of a mid-summer departure from Dublin a few years back, it wasn't a very pleasant affair.

Smaller, less crowded airports like Shannon are generally more user-friendly and
can make for a much less stressful trip. Give me Shannon any day.

Suits · 20-02-2012 2:46am

On the subject of "RyanAtlantic" I believe it was stated in a media document in the "Brainchild" stage that MOL hoped to go from Dublin, Stansted, Frankfurt and a location in Eastern Europe to be decided upon.

I used to travel a lot to the states to see family and to be honest it kind of biased my view of SNN. Shannon was a pain in the unmentionables for the T/A traveller. You leave DUB at 11 and arrive in SNN 15 mins later. You clear immigration(fair enough) and are then delayed 1-2 hours(this happened on a lot of my trips) by people at the duty free!!:mad:(and AL cant offload their bags so have to wait).
You then head off to the states and have to spend the 1st 3 days of you holiday apologising to your relatives who had to wait 2 hours in arrivals for you!:mad:
You then come home and while knackered tired you have to get off the plane and wander round SNN(which evidently isnt heated at this hour of the morning) while locals or people off delayed T/A flights or cancelled/overbooked commuter flights are slotted into empty seats(another hour delay)...you then fly a whole 15 mins to DUB. I remember in 2005 we estimated we could have driven the rest of the way to Dublin quicker than it took to fly on.

It's that experiance in Irish aviation that colours opinion of SNN!

Truth is it needs an angle if it is to survive...what that angle is...I dont know!

bladeruner · 20-02-2012 1:22pm

Imho ,
Shannon should probably focus on becoming a cargo hub but this needs big picture thinking, something were not good at in Ireland.
It needs to be developed in association with a port and the Shannon free enterprise zone.
If it wants pax , it needs a train from limerick to Galway that stops at the terminal in Shannon and many major towns /villages along the way.
Prestwick (a similiar airport from many perspectives ) has only worked for Ryanair due to the train from Glasgow to Ayr every 30 minutes.
Initial cost benefit analysis might suggest that a Shannon train would never pay for itself but this could reinvigorate the western side of the country with employment and associated social benefits.

Nok1a · 20-02-2012 2:34pm

bladeruner wrote: »

Imho ,
Shannon should probably focus on becoming a cargo hub but this needs big picture thinking, something were not good at in Ireland.
It needs to be developed in association with a port and the Shannon free enterprise zone.
If it wants pax , it needs a train from limerick to Galway that stops at the terminal in Shannon and many major towns /villages along the way.
Prestwick (a similiar airport from many perspectives ) has only worked for Ryanair due to the train from Glasgow to Ayr every 30 minutes.
Initial cost benefit analysis might suggest that a Shannon train would never pay for itself but this could reinvigorate the western side of the country with employment and associated social benefits.

Its hard to ever see it succeeding as a large cargo hub. The advantage of a large runway capable of taking any size plane is outweighed by location both internationally and domestically.

Intl:
-what's the advantage of having a transatlantic cargo plane land in Shannon if very little of the cargo will end up at this location? As is done at the moment, the cargo should be sorted at the departure point, ie in Fed Exs case they ship all their European bound cargo from the us into Memphis, then it is put on the appropriate European destined plane,
-Shannon is in the middle of nowhere, the west coast of Ireland with no rail links and as for the sea sailing there from Europe would never work if the cargo was airfreighted in the first place. Whereas an airport like east midlands in the UK which is DHLs UK hub is located in the middle of the UK so its very easy for a transatlantic plane to land, put some of the cargo onto other uk bound planes and put some of it onto trucks to be delivered by road both north and south of the airport.

Domestic:
-Majority of mail/cargo out of Ireland goes from Dublin. its both very expensive(truck/driver/tolls/diesel etc) and time consuming to go from Dublin to Shannon and all the major international couriers already have large modern bases in Dublin. Also if a company is paying extra for a courier then time will be lost if it take 3+ hrs in rush hour to get a van/truck from Dublin to Shannon, meaning earlier pick up times meaning lost customers.

Blue Punto · 20-02-2012 2:39pm

With the night restrictions that are being forced upon Cargo operators at the airports in Germany focusing Shannon as a new Cargo Hub for Europe wouldnt be a bad idea although it would cause its own complexities at the same time and alot of the cargo flights involve night operations which Im sure would cause more problems from locals,but we need to start thinking outside the envelope and make ourselves attractive to new buisness which is a major stumbling block in this country as the people who make decisions seem unable to do so correctly

Suits · 20-02-2012 3:04pm

bladeruner wrote: »

Imho ,
If it wants pax , it needs a train from limerick to Galway that stops at the terminal in Shannon and many major towns /villages along the way.
Prestwick (a similiar airport from many perspectives ) has only worked for Ryanair due to the train from Glasgow to Ayr every 30 minutes.
Initial cost benefit analysis might suggest that a Shannon train would never pay for itself but this could reinvigorate the western side of the country with employment and associated social benefits.

They cut Metro North which was needed more for DUB so I dont see this happening sadly.
Ireland is not good at logistics. None of our airports are serviced by rail. Infact I was told that Weston actually has the best rail access via Leixlip Louisa-Bridge!:pac:. If you want to get transport to an airport here you have to pay inflated captive market prices. I remember paying 30 quid to go 10 mins from DCU direction to DUB by taxi!

. There are many issues that dog our airports and the govt seems unaware!
I worked in a hotel and one of the major complaints we always heard was that there was no transport anywhere. A lot of European and American tourists are used to having a good transport system to move around on and were bemused when they arrived in DUB or SNN and were more or less stranded in the middle of nowhere with no idea how to get anywhere and with a rather large hole in their pocket when they got there! The M1 and airport road in DUB was another issue we heard a lot or negatives about!

Sadly aircraft dont glide over the threshold of SNN with empty tanks anymore and the birth of aircraft that could go from central Europe to the US without stopping killed SNN. The enforced stopover saved them in the past but the major US carriers I think threatened the govt with reduced or removed service unless it was removed.

I'm gonna play the Jackeen card now and put it up the culchies!;)

.......Everything large moves through DUB now. Cargo and pax arrive easier and are moved quicker and the census data suggests that almost a third of the population live in Dublin or the commuter belt. A survey by the CSO I think showed that over half the population live in areas where DUB is their closest airport timewise by road. That doesnt bode well for the likes of SNN. Ryanair are propping Knock open and fueling it's expansion, but the problem is that there is life beyond Ryanair. Cargo, T/A etc is all sort of centralising in DUB.
If Ryanair go T/A this will only get worse as if the model works I believe they will drive the major US carriers off the routes and if DUB is their hub in Ireland that will not be good for SNN as Ryanair wont operate out of SNN if they can go from DUB.

20-02-2012 3:23pm

Suits wrote: »

They cut Metro North which was needed more for DUB so I dont see this happening sadly.
Ireland is not good at logistics. None of our airports are serviced by rail. Infact I was told that Weston actually has the best rail access via Leixlip Louisa-Bridge!:pac:. If you want to get transport to an airport here you have to pay inflated captive market prices. I remember paying 30 quid to go 10 mins from DCU direction to DUB by taxi!. There are many issues that dog our airports and the govt seems unaware!
I worked in a hotel and one of the major complaints we always heard was that there was no transport anywhere. A lot of European and American tourists are used to having a good transport system to move around on and were bemused when they arrived in DUB or SNN and were more or less stranded in the middle of nowhere with no idea how to get anywhere and with a rather large hole in their pocket when they got there! The M1 and airport road in DUB was another issue we heard a lot or negatives about!

Sadly aircraft dont glide over the threshold of SNN with empty tanks anymore and the birth of aircraft that could go from central Europe to the US without stopping killed SNN. The enforced stopover saved them in the past but the major US carriers I think threatened the govt with reduced or removed service unless it was removed.

I'm gonna play the Jackeen card now and put it up the culchies!;)

.......Everything large moves through DUB now. Cargo and pax arrive easier and are moved quicker and the census data suggests that almost a third of the population live in Dublin or the commuter belt. A survey by the CSO I think showed that over half the population live in areas where DUB is their closest airport timewise by road. That doesnt bode well for the likes of SNN. Ryanair are propping Knock open and fueling it's expansion, but the problem is that there is life beyond Ryanair. Cargo, T/A etc is all sort of centralising in DUB.
If Ryanair go T/A this will only get worse as if the model works I believe they will drive the major US carriers off the routes and if DUB is their hub in Ireland that will not be good for SNN as Ryanair wont operate out of SNN if they can go from DUB.

Ireland is too small for having more than one long haul(>6 hrs) airport, making Dublin the sole airport for long haul makes sense as it means more choice for every body. Knock and Cork work perfectly as European and UK destination airports to serve the west/north and south. You do not want to be travelling 3 or 4 hours to Dublin for a 30 minute flight to London. Flying for 6 hours or greater makes this journey to Dublin from anywhere in Ireland justified.

Shannon's purpose is getting harder and harder to justify its too costly for european flights compared to a more efficient airport up the coast and it does not really serve TA customers sufficiently. If SNN lose any of the heathrow slots to Knock then they will be in big trouble as Knock already has more routes than SNN even before the planned doubling of the Ryanair routes from Knock over the next few years.

Is there any chance Nato would be looking for a new base ??:) Or a training airport ?? They might pay off some of the 100 million that SNN and its customers owe the taxpayer (Tax payer should not be funding any airport with massive yearly deficits, this should be paid by customers or close it). Customers of Knock keep it profitable and expanding by paying a development fee, will these same taxpayers also be expected to pay for the luxury of customers in Shannon keeping open another regional loss making airport by paying more taxes to help write off there massive debts ?
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/no-more-kicking-can-on-shannon-3002529.html

bladeruner · 20-02-2012 4:13pm

Nok1a wrote: »

Its hard to ever see it succeeding as a large cargo hub. The advantage of a large runway capable of taking any size plane is outweighed by location both internationally and domestically.

Intl:
-what's the advantage of having a transatlantic cargo plane land in Shannon if very little of the cargo will end up at this location? As is done at the moment, the cargo should be sorted at the departure point, ie in Fed Exs case they ship all their European bound cargo from the us into Memphis, then it is put on the appropriate European destined plane,
-Shannon is in the middle of nowhere, the west coast of Ireland with no rail links and as for the sea sailing there from Europe would never work if the cargo was airfreighted in the first place. Whereas an airport like east midlands in the UK which is DHLs UK hub is located in the middle of the UK so its very easy for a transatlantic plane to land, put some of the cargo onto other uk bound planes and put some of it onto trucks to be delivered by road both north and south of the airport.

Domestic:
-Majority of mail/cargo out of Ireland goes from Dublin. its both very expensive(truck/driver/tolls/diesel etc) and time consuming to go from Dublin to Shannon and all the major international couriers already have large modern bases in Dublin. Also if a company is paying extra for a courier then time will be lost if it take 3+ hrs in rush hour to get a van/truck from Dublin to Shannon, meaning earlier pick up times meaning lost customers.

As I said it would have to be a big picture solution involving improved transport links , favourable tax status and upgraded port facilities.

I think you have made your argument for me by quoting east midlands . The UK being an island also has similiar location issues to Ireland . Shannon is well placed to take flights arriving from the US and then to distribute further East.
This only works if a cargo operator makes Shannon a hub.
The idea would be to make it too attractive not to ...just as we have done for aircraft leasing. (Ireland is to the best of my knowledge the world leader in aircraft leasing. )

It wouldn't be an easy ask though and there's no money in the kitty anyway.
So this is all a bit of an intellectual exercise.

Suits · 20-02-2012 6:46pm

bladeruner wrote: »

Shannon is well placed to take flights arriving from the US and then to distribute further East.
This only works if a cargo operator makes Shannon a hub.
The idea would be to make it too attractive not to ...

I see what you are saying, however DUB is underused and all the major road and rail networks run from Dublin. From a logistics standpoint a freight carrier would much rather fly into DUB and load freight onto trucks to go to Cork. Why land in SNN when you can fly 10 mins on to DUB and save on transport costs? The large amount of stuff is going to stay in Dublin anyhow for retail etc so why have to drive it ALL up to Dublin from SNN?
Another SNN issue is that trains cannot go Limerick to Dublin in the current layout. Cargo would have to go from SNN to Limerick and then change trains at Limerick Junction to avoid congestion on the lines. A freight Terminal would have to be built at Heuston too and that would be a traffic NIGHTMARE for the centre city in Dublin. We dont have a good suburban rail network to move the stuff either and the Port Tunnel was built to avoid Trucks in the centre city anyhow!

Reality is that when you go out and see the world and look at other countries you start to realise that we are a small island with in truth only 1 city. Cork, Limerick, Galway etc are when compared to other European countries just large towns with not an awful lot of economic activity. From a cost point of view the only place to fly freight into is DUB because it is the beating heart of the country's economy. You have roads that will have you up North in 2 hours, out West in 2 hours and down South in 2 and a half. In truth why the tell wouldnt companies fly freight into DUB??

I think with the current economic climate the govt is starting to realise that pandering to rural notions of grandeur is an issue that has cost Ireland in the past. Oliver Cromwell's famous quote "To hell or to Connaught" is very true. The East coast is where it's at and when you study the figures you see that compared to "the Pale" the rest of the country produces very little. Dublin and the commuter belt is the economic engine of Ireland and if you look at the map you see that SNN does not have good enough logistical ties at present to be of any used to the economy. The only hope for SNN to have a sucessful future is to pcik it up and move it to Kildare. Perhaps the govt will buy Weston and dig a massive hole to plant SNN in. Then it could be a Cargo hub!:cool:

Blue Punto · 20-02-2012 7:01pm

double post

Blue Punto · 20-02-2012 7:04pm

I think your missing the point
I believe Bladerunner means further east as in Europe(Make Shannon a hub for european cargo coming across the pond and re-distribute it from there across europe)

roundymac · 20-02-2012 8:29pm

Suits wrote: »

Another SNN issue is that trains cannot go Limerick to Dublin in the current layout. Cargo would have to go from SNN to Limerick and then change trains at Limerick Junction to avoid congestion on the lines. A freight Terminal would have to be built at Heuston too and that would be a traffic NIGHTMARE for the centre city in Dublin.

Yes they can, there is a direct curve at Limerick Juction, as for the congestion, run the freight at night like they do in other countries. Plenty of places to have a freight depot near Dublin, you could start at Portlaoise, plenty of room there. An Post have their central depot at Porlaoise and it works for them. Why is it always in Ireland when someone suggests some thing, people start tying themselves up in knots trying to come up with reasons why it cannot be done. Its no wonder the country is in the state it is.:mad:

highlydebased · 20-02-2012 8:42pm

Suits wrote: »

Trains cannot go Limerick to Dublin in the current layout. Cargo would have to go from SNN to Limerick and then change trains at Limerick Junction to avoid congestion on the lines.

LOL. Trains can go Limerick to Dublin.

Imagine telling a load of containers to "All change here for Dublin Heuston"...

roundymac · 20-02-2012 9:29pm

Of course in a proper run rail system, they would be clammering for business, run a spur from the Limerick-Ennis line which runs about 2-3 away, the Limerick-Ballybrophy line which is one of the most underused lines in Ireland could easly accomadate railfreight. All they have to do is finish the improvments on the line,and build a new turnout at Ballybrophy. In any other country these would be considered minor items butover here, oh no, you can't do That. Some of this line was rebuilt over a year ago but it's still got speed restriction because I/E have not got round to tampering the line.:(

Jamie2k9 · 20-02-2012 9:41pm

that line is in a bad state, Track is in a bad way and there is no way it could handle freight traffic. The speed limit is less that 50mph. The line needs investment and a lot of work done.

Suits · 20-02-2012 11:00pm

Freight already runs on the line there at night and as it is the line is bearly able to cope(and thats more down to the quality of the line than the amount of traffic)

I dont see why any cargo airline would want to use SNN as a hub when they could use DUB. DUB is where all roads in Ireland go to really and it is the easiest point from which to distribute cargo either from cargo aircraft to flag carriers and onwards or to parts of Ireland. No airline will use SNN as a hub just so as to justify SNN existing.

I'm not going to pull out numbers etc but my onward education is in this exact field and I can tell you that the major issue that international companies flag in Ireland is the lack to joined up transport. Examples are the lack of rail lines in the NW and fact that all transport networks in the West are not joined to anything! Govt after Govt have failed to link our ports and airports to the main distribution channels and as such our airports are isolated.

If SNN was to be a cargo hub for FedEx and they sorted all European cargo there, there would need to be a train line from the airport DIRECT to Dublin/Cork/Galway/Belfast or else it would not be cost effective. Also the airport would need to expand to be able to recieve the large number of aircraft that would come in. Any restrictions on weights, hours or noise would have to be looked at and in truth if you want it to be a large freight company's "EuroHub" you'd need a fairly big capacity.

highlydebased · 21-02-2012 10:28am

Suits wrote: »

Freight already runs on the line there at night and as it is the line is bearly able to cope(and thats more down to the quality of the line than the amount of traffic)

I dont see why any cargo airline would want to use SNN as a hub when they could use DUB. DUB is where all roads in Ireland go to really and it is the easiest point from which to distribute cargo either from cargo aircraft to flag carriers and onwards or to parts of Ireland. No airline will use SNN as a hub just so as to justify SNN existing.

I'm not going to pull out numbers etc but my onward education is in this exact field and I can tell you that the major issue that international companies flag in Ireland is the lack to joined up transport. Examples are the lack of rail lines in the NW and fact that all transport networks in the West are not joined to anything! Govt after Govt have failed to link our ports and airports to the main distribution channels and as such our airports are isolated.

If SNN was to be a cargo hub for FedEx and they sorted all European cargo there, there would need to be a train line from the airport DIRECT to Dublin/Cork/Galway/Belfast or else it would not be cost effective. Also the airport would need to expand to be able to recieve the large number of aircraft that would come in. Any restrictions on weights, hours or noise would have to be looked at and in truth if you want it to be a large freight company's "EuroHub" you'd need a fairly big capacity.

There's no freight into Limerick or on the Nenagh branch at the moment. The shale/cement traffic is all gone.

bk · 21-02-2012 11:36am

I have to say, no offense, but some people are off in lala fairy land.

- Shannon as a European Cargo Hub
Who in the right mind would use Shannon as a European Cargo Hub, even if you were to spend billions improving rail, road and sea networks, the reality we are an island off in the periphery of Europe, with no connection to mainland Europe.

A European Cargo Hub has to be in the center of Europe, close to the major city centers and with excellent transport connections.

FedEx use Paris Charles De Gaulle and Cologne Bonn Airport.
DHL use Leipzig Halle Airport in Germany (two major autobahns and a railway line go right through the center of it and only a few hours from Berlin, Munich, Amsterdam, etc.)

There is absolutely zero chance Shannon could ever compete with this business. Not unless you paln to move Shannon somewhere in central Europe!!

- Shannon as an Irish cargo hub
Shannon doesn't even make sense as an Irish cargo hub. Over a third of all cargo is heading to Dublin anyway, so why would you not spend an extra 10 minutes flying to Dublin, instead of the 2 hours by road from Shannon.

Also Dublin is perfectly placed to serve the rest of the country, it is only 2 hours and 2 and a half hours from every major city in Ireland. You would have to add an extra two hours to these times from Shannon. Makes no sense at all.

As for rail fright in Ireland, it is dead. Rail freight makes up less then 1% of all freight in Ireland. The reason being you literally couldn't get a country less suited to rail freight then Ireland. For rail freight to work, you typically need very long distances (e.g. across the US, Australia) and heavy loads (mining materials, etc.).

In Ireland we are a small island, where the major population center is in the middle of the country and is only 2:30 hours from everywhere else in the country. Every major population center has a port, we have a superb road network and almost no heavy industry (mining, etc.), with most of our industry being light, just in time industry. You couldn't find a place less suited to rail freight.

Why bother to put your fright on a truck to bring it to a rail hub, ship it for a few hours by rail, then take it back off the rail and onto another truck!! Just leave it on the tuck in the first place and it will get to where it needs to go much faster by road, with less danger to your business if the train company goes on strike.

No, people seem to fail to see the massive effect that the new high quality road network will have on our rail, ports and airports. Everywhere in Ireland is now much closer, which means we will see increased centralisation of port and airports to just one or two and probably the death of intercity rail.

Nok1a · 21-02-2012 11:50am

so thats a no to express cargo operations.

The other "cargo" option for shannon that was mentioned was a humanitarian hub for example one for the likes of the UN / red cross. This would make more sense, plenty of storage space for planes/food, runway would suit the UNs plane fleet(im guessing ageing(so loud), oversized).

xflyer · 21-02-2012 12:44pm

I'm afraid they UN has no fleet. They hire in as required.

No Shannon's future is pretty much as it is now. Some scheduled traffic, some transatlantic scheduled, charter and refuelling. It's glory days are over as was featured on the documentary last night.

People who suggest it should have this service or that service are missing the point. If the numbers were there, the lo-cos would be fighting each other to fly out of the place. They're not, indeed Ryanair like to complain about how expensive it is to fly from Shannon. They're right. Shannon are desperately trying to hang onto the fantasy that it can go back to being a busy airport. That it's needed. Galway fell into that trap too.

It's not needed, to survive it needs to scale back it's ambitions. This is the world of the lo co airline. The days of prestigious government backed white elephants is gone. None of the workers there are owed a living. Like any business it lives or dies on providing customers what they need.

If it has a future it's to be a quiet regional airport with a massive runway and an interesting past.

Davidth88 · 21-02-2012 2:12pm

Interesting , I was reading this thread , I instantly thought of Findel Airport in Luxemburg.

Similar size ( longer runway ) than SNN , but very quiet . And look where it is geographically .

lotusm · 21-02-2012 5:25pm

Looks like the best option for the Govt is to move the T/A to Cork and leave European flights in SNN.. Make all the staff redundant (fat chance) Reopen it as a private enterprise which would make at least profitable when scaled back.... The Taxpayer cannot be expected to keep throwing money at this ... even looking at the show last night there was no one passing through ... :eek:

roundymac · 21-02-2012 6:06pm

The best thing the Gov can do is leave well alone, it did enough interference with the stop over,

highlydebased · 21-02-2012 7:17pm

lotusm wrote: »

Looks like the best option for the Govt is to move the T/A to Cork and leave European flights in SNN.. Make all the staff redundant (fat chance) Reopen it as a private enterprise which would make at least profitable when scaled back.... The Taxpayer cannot be expected to keep throwing money at this ... even looking at the show last night there was no one passing through ... :eek:

Have the taxpayer throw even more money at it when you move away it's more profitable flights....where's your logic for that?

Shannon airport

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