Research A Soldier

arnhem44 · 15-08-2009 11:28pm #1

On the kind offer by mirror mirror on the Family In The Great War thread it maybe a good idea to start a thread to research a soldier.If people are willing to look into this and have access to the relevant records and wish to help then I think alot of people would be very grateful.So if anyone wants to post up the name,rank and regiment of the soldier in question fire away and let it go from there.

spurious · 15-08-2009 11:30pm

I have access to the CWGC records for graves in the Republic of Ireland should someone want a grave located.

arnhem44 · 16-08-2009 3:48am

spurious wrote: »

I have access to the CWGC records for graves in the Republic of Ireland should someone want a grave located.

I've been out to a few cemetries and graveyards now over the past couple of months looking at the headstones and just wondered about the graves that are in the care of the CWGC,even though there maybe many buried in a particular graveyard only some bare a military headstone,the others been buried in family plots,when this is the case do the CWGC still care for these graves?

arnhem44 · 16-08-2009 3:44pm

Ok then I'll get the ball rolling with this. I've had a Military Medal for bravery for some time to a man in the Royal Army Medical Corps from Dublin,William Whitley 61981 RAMC,below is his index cards for his medals and his gazzette entry(second page,top right hand corner) for the bravery award,the 90th Field Ambulance served from 1915 in France,anyone able to add to this,even an addres in Dublin.

spurious · 16-08-2009 4:15pm

arnhem44 wrote: »

I've been out to a few cemetries and graveyards now over the past couple of months looking at the headstones and just wondered about the graves that are in the care of the CWGC,even though there maybe many buried in a particular graveyard only some bare a military headstone,the others been buried in family plots,when this is the case do the CWGC still care for these graves?

They certainly take care of the CWGC headstones. A team go round regularly cleaning them. For those buried in family plots it might be a little more complicated, especially if the family specifically refused a CGWC headstone and thus might have some issues with the Commission.

spurious · 16-08-2009 4:19pm

arnhem44 wrote: »

Ok then I'll get the ball rolling with this. I've had a Military Medal for bravery for some time to a man in the Royal Army Medical Corps from Dublin,William Whitley 61981 RAMC,below is his index cards for his medals and his gazzette entry(second page,top right hand corner) for the bravery award,the 90th Field Ambulance served from 1915 in France,anyone able to add to this,even an addres in Dublin.

According to the 1911 census (.pdf file), there were Whitleys (including a William) at 4 Whitworth Row.

arnhem44 · 16-08-2009 7:52pm

Cheers spurios,his age would fit in for military service if thats our man(as long as he was from Dublin),its great that the Cencus records are finally coming online,it opens up a whole new research area.

R.Dub.Fusilier · 19-08-2009 4:46pm

arnhem44 wrote: »

Cheers spurios,his age would fit in for military service if thats our man(as long as he was from Dublin),its great that the Cencus records are finally coming online,it opens up a whole new research area.

i couldn't agree more . it will be brilliant when they have all 32 counties on line . and of course its free.

i have a KSA to William Kinsella of the RAMC who served in WW! and was mentioned in dispatches . and using 1911 census i found out he was from Ruthland St in Dublin City.

arnhem44 · 24-08-2009 4:34pm

Ok lads here are two casualty details of two seamen buried side by side in my home town,I was hoping someone with access to Ancestry could check the cencus records for Scotland to determine if they are brothers,I'm presuming they are.

Trimmer Cook JAMES BOWIE

461TC, H.M. Drifter "Morning Star IV.", Royal Naval Reserve
who died age 20
on 14 June 1917
Son of George Bowie, of 5, James St., Buckie, Banffshire.
Remembered with honour
KILGARIFFE CHURCH OF IRELAND CHURCHYARD

Engineman JOHN BOWIE

3155ES, H.M. Drifter "Morning Star IV.", Royal Naval Reserve
who died age 29
on 14 June 1917
Husband of Mary Rodger, of 37, Gordon St., Buckie, Banffshire.
Remembered with honour
KILGARIFFE CHURCH OF IRELAND CHURCHYARD

spurious · 24-08-2009 5:29pm

According to http://www.naval-history.net/xDKCas1917-06Jun.htm they weren't related. Perhaps it's a common name in Banffshire.

Here are two brothers in Kilbarrack Graveyard, Dublin. It was seeing these two graves that made me get into the whole photographing graves hobby.

KILBARRACK CEMETERY County Dublin
BRADY Private EDWARD
3508. 7th Bn. Leinster Regiment. 1st November 1915.
01/11/1915
Son of James and Mary Brady, of 3, Palace St., Dublin.

BRADY Private M E
8th Bn. Canadian Infantry (Manitoba Regiment)
Age: 27
17/11/1915
Son of James and Mary Brady, of 3, Palace St., Dublin.

I couldn't stop thinking of their poor mother as she got the letters telling her, one after the other, or maybe even both at the same time.

arnhem44 · 25-08-2009 1:14pm

Spurious I can't thank you enough for that information.I was always in the belief that they may of been brothers,another family to lose not one but two sons on the same day.Now at least thats not the case.Speaking of brothers I got Chris Baker on the Long Long Trail web site to honour two brothers by the name of Brickley from Co.Cork who were lost on the same day at the battle of Jutland whilst serving on HMS Defence which as far as I'm aware went down with all hands in 1916.Its tragic for any family to lose someone but some families they really did suffer,whilst researching local lads I've come across many families who have lost more than one,one such family in Glanmire in Cork who had six sons serving and two of these I know were lost,I don't have the other four soldiers details but some of these may also of been killed.

Roubalard · 05-09-2009 2:52pm

Some time back I started researching a great uncle of mine (Michael Nevin) who was killed on 2nd September 1918. I was moved by the Last Voices of WW1 series on Sky and decided to find out more about any relations who fought in the great war. I am hoping that readers of this thread may be able to give me some guidance on how best to proceed with my research.

All I really know about him is that he returned home in August 1918 on leave to attend his fathers funeral and had enough leave to see him to the end of the war (if only he had known). He subsequently decided to return and was killed by a shell fragment. In the late 1960s or early 1970s my father actually met the soldier who was beside him in the trench when he was killed but recalls little else of the conversation.

All I've managed to get so far is his medal record and a picture of his headstone which I've attached. He is buried at St Martin Calvaire British Cemetary. All his personal effects that were sent home were accidently destroyed a considerable time ago, so any diaries he may have kept are long since gone.

What I would specifically like to do is trace as much as I can his movements in France i.e. where he may have been stationed and what battles he may have fought in etc. in the hope that I may be able to identify him in old war photos or television footage. Also from his medal record it states that his medals were returned. Seemingly his mother refused to accept them. Is it possible to reclaim these or would they have been destroyed?

Any guidance help would be greatly appreciated.

arnhem44 · 05-09-2009 3:48pm

here's his details off the Commonwealth War Graves Commission

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=306862

and details of the troop movements of the 1st Battalion of the Munster Fusiliers off the Long Long Trail web site

http://www.1914-1918.net/rmf.htm

and more of the same with the Dublin Fusiliers

http://www.1914-1918.net/dubs.htm

Since his medal card only has the British War and Victory medal on it suggests he entered service after 1915,he would of been entitled to another medal otherwise in most cases

and finally a small bit of background while they were in France

http://www.2ndbattalionroyalulsterriflesreenactmentgroup.webeden.co.uk/#/the-munster-fusiliers/4526883783

arnhem44 · 05-09-2009 4:31pm

Here's also a link for anyone wanting to look into getting medals replaced by the Ministry of Defence in Britain,not sure if it covers WW1 but worth a look

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceFor/Veterans/Medals/

Roubalard · 05-09-2009 10:04pm

arnhem44 wrote: »

here's his details off the Commonwealth War Graves Commission

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=306862

and details of the troop movements of the 1st Battalion of the Munster Fusiliers off the Long Long Trail web site

http://www.1914-1918.net/rmf.htm

and more of the same with the Dublin Fusiliers

http://www.1914-1918.net/dubs.htm

Since his medal card only has the British War and Victory medal on it suggests he entered service after 1915,he would of been entitled to another medal otherwise in most cases

and finally a small bit of background while they were in France

http://www.2ndbattalionroyalulsterriflesreenactmentgroup.webeden.co.uk/#/the-munster-fusiliers/4526883783

Thanks for the links. I had come across the CWGC site but not the others. I've had a look and they appear to be a very good starting point.

albymo · 09-09-2009 6:01pm

Hi
I Have just found this site and joined. I do not know if you can help me, but here goes, I am trying to find out about my grandfather and uncle, both of whom served in the boar war, India and late in WW1 as both where in there late 30's by then. I do not have much on them,the family believe that they both started out in the Kings Liverpool regiment? is there any way that I can find out more info on them? as on looking for my grandfather John Joseph Ryan. I came up with over five hundred of them,and all they give is Name,rank and number,which I do not have except for name, so it would cost a lot of money to send for documents on them,no one left in the family has any of his army perticulars,they are searching for other family members that might have some thing of his army stuff, my uncle Joseph Jame Hyland, is not so bad, as I only came up with 3-4 of them, I should say that they where both born in Liverpool in 1881 of Irish parents, so is there any one that can stear me in the right direction so I can narrow down the name Lists.
Just received an old photo of my Grandfather taken they believe in India date? it looks like he has some strips on his arm and has a swagger stick? across his knee's. Any help would be greatly appreciated
Regards
Albert Etherington

Hamilton Canada

arnhem44 · 10-09-2009 9:30am

Hi albymo,it won't be easy to find the people your looking for with just there names.I think your best thing to do is find them on the census records in Britain if they were born there and get there age's to start with.The searchs that you mention sound like the records of soldiers medal cards from WW1,if this is the case these still won't give you any details of previuos enlistment and will only tell which Regiment or regiments he served in during the first world war,his medal entitlements,his rank,and sometimes the date when he entered the theatre of war or became a KIA.If the two men can be found,there may be medical and pension records as well as discharge papers available to search.Any records after 1920 are still unavailable as far as I'm aware(correct me if I'm wrong)I'll have a look at a few sites to see if theres anything but your best bet is probably to get a researcher to take this on which can be found on line and at varying costs.This may be not be as dear as you think.

arnhem44 · 10-09-2009 7:54pm

Ok then I had a look around at a few sites and it might be possible to narrow things down.I'll post some links for you to have a look at but these still won't give you who they are for sure.There is a research site(subscription) available for The 2nd Boer War which shows four J.J. Ryan's,theres also a medal index card off the National Archives web site in the U.K for a Joseph J Hyland who served in the Rifle Brigade,also the search for John J Ryan has narrowed down to 27 on the National Archives website for WW1 service,bare in mind though that they may still be one of the other men who have just used there first name.Also theres a mention for a John Ryan on the London Gazette website working in the post office in 1902 but again this could be anybody.the info at the bottom are two names I turned up for births in Liverpool for 1880,these may or may not be your relations but maybe someone here can check these out on Ancestry and turn up something else.

http://www.casus-belli.co.uk/index.asp?PageId=1

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/search-results.asp?searchType=powersearch&mediaarray=*&first_date=18990101&last_date=19201231&CatID=10&pageCount=3&query=first%5Fname%3Djohn+j%7Clast%5Fname%3Dryan&queryType=1&pageNumber=1&sortSpec=first%5Fdate+desc

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/search-results.asp?searchtype=powersearch&query=first_name%3djoseph%7clast_name%3dhyland&first_date=19140101&last_date=19191231&catid=10&mediaarray=*&pagenumber=1&querytype=1

Joseph RYAN Household
Male

Other Information:
Birth Year <1880>
Birthplace Lpool, Lancashire, England
Age 1
Occupation
Marital Status U <Unmarried>
Head of Household Patrick RYAN
Relation Son
Disability

Source Information:
Dwelling 5 Crt 1 House Ennerdale St
Census Place Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Family History Library Film 1341861
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3595 / 148
Page Number 27

Joseph HYLAND Household
Male

Other Information:
Birth Year <1880>
Birthplace Liverpool
Age 1
Occupation Infant
Marital Status U <Unmarried>
Head of Household Micheal HYLAND
Relation Son
Disability

Source Information:
Dwelling 35 Rose Place
Census Place Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Family History Library Film 1341860
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3593 / 58
Page Number 6

albymo · 10-09-2009 8:34pm

Hi Arnhem 44
Thanks for your quick replies. I will have a look into those sites you sent. i have a bit more info on both of them,don't know if it will help?
John Joseph Ryan Born 17 July 1881 Garston Lancs England
Died c1965 Liverpool England
Married 27 June 1915 age 34 in St. Joseph's RC church Seacombe Wallasey. Too Amy Margaret Ashley

Joseph James Hyland Born 11/12/1881, 54 Plumbe st. Liverpool.
Died 6 July 1966 Clatterbridge hospital Wirral
Married 3 May 1904 age 22 in St. Michael's RC church Everton Liverpool. Too Helena Ashley (sister of Amy Above).

As I left England for Canada in 1965, the info I have been able to find on them is very sketchy, I am working with the granddaughter of Joe Hyland to try and find the Army records,and so far have hit a brick wall, I think that we both realise we will eventually have to get the services of a researcher and split the cost between us. Again many thanks for what you have done, will let you know if i come up with any thing on those sites.
Regards

AL Etherington

Canada

arnhem44 · 10-09-2009 11:05pm

Something I just thought of now is the absent voters list,since you have addresses for the two men in question it may be worth a look at these,there was a geneal election in 1918 in Britain and any man who was away at the front would be on these lists,this may provide you with there service number and regiment,these lists can be found online for some or at local libraries to where the soldiers lived.

mountainview86 · 13-09-2009 9:47pm

Can anyone help me please.

Im looking for any information on an ancestor of mine.

Thomas Douglas
Regiment No.: 426159
In the Royal Army Service Corps Remounts

Thanks in advance

Roubalard · 14-09-2009 8:09am

Hi all. I came across the 1911 census for Ireland. It's available from the national archives at the following url.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/

Access is free and it is fully searchable. Hope this may be of help in tracing ancestors who went on to fight in WW1.

arnhem44 · 14-09-2009 7:36pm

mountainview86 wrote: »

Can anyone help me please.

Im looking for any information on an ancestor of mine.

Thomas Douglas
Regiment No.: 426159
In the Royal Army Service Corps Remounts

Thanks in advance

Hi there,I had a look for this soldier on the National Archives website for his medal index card but he's not showing up,somebody here might check ancestry for his record which i don't have access to.It may be a case that his record is one that was destroyed during the blitz on London,a large amount of records were lost at the time and the ones that were damaged due to fire and water which survived are now known as the burnt series.

R.Dub.Fusilier · 25-10-2009 2:02pm

arnhem44 wrote: »

Ok then I'll get the ball rolling with this. I've had a Military Medal for bravery for some time to a man in the Royal Army Medical Corps from Dublin,William Whitley 61981 RAMC,below is his index cards for his medals and his gazzette entry(second page,top right hand corner) for the bravery award,the 90th Field Ambulance served from 1915 in France,anyone able to add to this,even an addres in Dublin.

just attached original medal index card in case you dont have it.

johnny_doyle · 26-10-2009 11:13am

re the William Whitley found on the 1911 census for Dublin, there is a family tree entry on Ancestry that match the family. However, there's a link to an army record indicating that this William Whitley joined the RDF in 1914 but was discharged in Nov 1914 as "unlikely to make an efficient" soldier. He had a brother who enlisted in the ASC in 1914 and who was also discharged with the same comment.

Whilst it is possible that he could have re-enlisted later I don't think this William Whitley is the RAMC MM man.

This William Whitley married Catherine Evans in 1915 and had 7 children, 2 of whom served in WW2. One in the RAF who survived and another who served in the Cameronians but died in 1944

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2191293

Having been through 1911 Irish census, DublinHeritage, Ancestry, GenesReunited, FamilySearch, Rootschat, National Archives etc with variations on spellings (Whiteley, Witley, Whitly) there just doesn't seem to be any info about this MM winner.

Nothing about him on the following re 90th Field Ambulance RAMC
http://www.ramc-ww1.com/index.php?cPath=274_443_143

I've left a query on the above website to see if they have any info re 61981 Whitley.

johnny_doyle · 26-10-2009 11:54am

mountainview86 wrote: »

Can anyone help me please.

Im looking for any information on an ancestor of mine.

Thomas Douglas
Regiment No.: 426159
In the Royal Army Service Corps Remounts

Thanks in advance

his service record is on Ancestry. Living at 6 Captain's Ave, Bray, Co Wicklow. Mother Mrs Elizabeth Thomas at same address.

aged 23, 4ft 11.5inches. Officers Mess Waiter. Before the war, a collier. Black hair, hazel eyes, reliable and intelligent. Enlisted 18th Sept 1918; home 13th May 1920.

enfeild · 27-10-2009 8:18pm

please delete
[/I]

enfeild · 27-10-2009 8:45pm

I cover the war dead for Tipperary, Wexford, Wicklow, Waterford, Laoise and Offaly. Lookups are free. I can search by location, name etc.
Who's first?
Regards.
Tom

arnhem44 · 27-10-2009 9:35pm

johnny_doyle wrote: »

re the William Whitley found on the 1911 census for Dublin, there is a family tree entry on Ancestry that match the family. However, there's a link to an army record indicating that this William Whitley joined the RDF in 1914 but was discharged in Nov 1914 as "unlikely to make an efficient" soldier. He had a brother who enlisted in the ASC in 1914 and who was also discharged with the same comment.

Whilst it is possible that he could have re-enlisted later I don't think this William Whitley is the RAMC MM man.

This William Whitley married Catherine Evans in 1915 and had 7 children, 2 of whom served in WW2. One in the RAF who survived and another who served in the Cameronians but died in 1944

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2191293

Having been through 1911 Irish census, DublinHeritage, Ancestry, GenesReunited, FamilySearch, Rootschat, National Archives etc with variations on spellings (Whiteley, Witley, Whitly) there just doesn't seem to be any info about this MM winner.

Nothing about him on the following re 90th Field Ambulance RAMC
http://www.ramc-ww1.com/index.php?cPath=274_443_143

I've left a query on the above website to see if they have any info re 61981 Whitley.

Cheers for going through all those records to search for this soldier,he must be a mystery not to be showing up,can't understand why unless he wasn't here while the cencus took place and put down Dublin as his home address when enlisting somewhere else,as for the other records I can't say.I'd love to know what he done to deserve this award,might be worth my while to hire someone to do some further research.Thanks for your help.

johnny_doyle · 01-11-2009 5:38pm

the lady running the RAMC website replied to say she had no info in her database re Whitley.

aero1974 · 01-11-2009 7:47pm

I am looking for information on my Great Granddad I am trying to find out where he would have fought in France.

Anthony Hughes 31495 45th BDE RFA Gunner

Research A Soldier

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