Surf Accounts

Hi... just bumping this thread as am looking at same myself.

Any users out there that give us a quick review of their experiences etc..

Much appreciated

DoMyBooks wrote: »

I don't have much experience with surf but have c100 clients happy on Xero please feel free to ask any questions

Hi.... yes am hearing about Xero every where I turn. Haven’t met anyone on Surf yet

Only problem with Xero from my contacts is the VaT module .... and the fact that it’s not geared to Australian vat rules. This is a sticky point for me.... after having a few Vat queries from taxman in past few years.

roots2branches wrote: »

I tried Surf a few months ago because I wanted to support an Irish company.
I'm afraid my experience was not good. Their bank feed with AIB does not work.
Support wasted a huge amount of my time back and forth trying to fix it, they were pretty useless.
And when it came to doing bills/reconsiling it was just a bazare method of going about it and I couldn't make head nor tail of it. I always think if software is not intuitive it's not worth bothering with.

I went with Xero in the end. Bank feeds just work, not failed once. Adding bills and reconsiling is just simple and logical, no need to read the manual if you know what I mean. It's really the best accounting software I have tried. Having said that, it's not perfect. The reports in Wave (which is free but no bank feeds) are much better than Xero.
I find the reports in Xero too Accountanty. For example, today I wanted to see how much I have spent with a particular supplier to date this year. Couldn't figure it out in Xero. Wave had a supplier report, choose the supplier, set the date, job done.
Xero is also overpriced IMO. Sure it's competitive with the marketplace but for what it does, accounting isn't exactly rocket science in terms of a software application. Anyway, that's my experience. Both have a free trial so I would suggest using them both for a week or two and then you'll soon know which one works for you.

Many thanks.... very informative. I am with TAS Books at the moment and I find the Nominal and Supplier analysis great. Gotta look at an alternative as they are getting out of it as it now it owned by Sage. And need to go paperless as I am drowning in lever arch files of invoices and statements.

roots2branches wrote: »

I tried Surf a few months ago because I wanted to support an Irish company.
I'm afraid my experience was not good. Their bank feed with AIB does not work.
Support wasted a huge amount of my time back and forth trying to fix it, they were pretty useless.
And when it came to doing bills/reconciling it was just a bizarre method of going about it and I couldn't make head nor tail of it. I always think if software is not intuitive it's not worth bothering with.

I went with Xero in the end. Bank feeds just work, not failed once. Adding bills and reconciling is just simple and logical, no need to read the manual if you know what I mean. It's really the best accounting software I have tried. Having said that, it's not perfect. The reports in Wave (which is free but no bank feeds) are much better than Xero.
I find the reports in Xero too Accountanty. For example, today I wanted to see how much I have spent with a particular supplier to date this year. Couldn't figure it out in Xero. Wave had a supplier report, choose the supplier, set the date, job done.
Xero is also overpriced IMO. Sure it's competitive with the marketplace but for what it does, accounting isn't exactly rocket science in terms of a software application. Anyway, that's my experience. Both have a free trial so I would suggest using them both for a week or two and then you'll soon know which one works for you.

Issue with price is you've companies with €5 -€10m in revenue and small businesses who can get away with Google docs paying the same price. So some think cheap and overpriced for others.

Hubdoc is included now 'free' also

DoMyBooks wrote: »

Issue with price is you've companies with €5 -€10m in revenue and small businesses who can get away with Google docs paying the same price. So some think cheap and overpriced for others.

Hubdoc is included now 'free' also

Not sure I understand you. My point is Xero as a piece of software is not that complex compared with say something like Photoshop and therefore I think it's expensive for what it actually does.

I tried Hubdoc, I have no idea why anyone would use it. It took 10 x longer than just manually putting a bill into Xero.

Masala wrote: »

In your experience .. is Xero close to sorting out this VAT problem??? As in .. sometime in next 12 months??? I could live with waiting that length of time IF there was light at end of the tunnel""

Sorting Irish VAT is not on Xero’s plan for the immediate future. I asked a few weeks ago, it’s just not on the horizon due to demand apparently. They gave me a workaround but I’m not interested.

Masala wrote: »

So... as matter of interest... what do you go for in the end. ???

I’m trying Surf this week!

Masala wrote: »

In your experience .. is Xero close to sorting out this VAT problem??? As in .. sometime in next 12 months??? I could live with waiting that length of time IF there was light at end of the tunnel""

Is it direct integration with Revenue you want for vat returns?
I doubt Xero is going to bother anytime soon, they seem focused on the UK at the moment and Ireland would be too small a market I guess.
Having said that, it's no bother to set Irish vat rates and generate the reports to track your vat, that's what I do and my account submits the return.

I have been using surf for a coulle of years now.
Its ok. If they put as much effort into support and develolment as sales then it would be better.
The support desk can be a bit funny - they dont take criticism well and if there is a problem they like to try and blame the user
A bit overpriced as well.
They have a payroll software as well and had major issues with it last year but it seems to be coming round now
I have ised xero and like some one else said vat is not great on it.
Avoid sage online like the plague.
I.am going to take a look at quickbooks and may change this year

Masala wrote: »

No.. don’t need to feed direct to Revenue. Just want to be able to run Reports and the figures fit direct into the VAT boxes. I don’t want to be making adjustments outside the reports as Revenue have asked me to send in the day books direct them and I don’t want to be caught out with figures not tying across. Also I buy a lot of goods from UK and need these showm separately. And I need the RTD to produce full return figures (E1 box, the J1 box etc).... I don’t want to be running an excel sheet separately on this ..... in effect I want the VAT section on Xero to produce my figures to go direct on to the VAT Forms

Sorry, I meant my accountant does my vat return. I use Xero and she pulls the vat reports from that. I buy a lot of goods from the UK too so you set up a UK Vat rate or exempt or whatever. You can set that at the supplier level so it's automated or you can choose it at the time of adding a bill/invoice.
Why don't you take Xero for a trial, you get 30 days, add a few bills, connect it to your bank account and see if the reports give you what you need.

Anne_cordelia wrote: »

Sorting Irish VAT is not on Xero’s plan for the immediate future. I asked a few weeks ago, it’s just not on the horizon due to demand apparently. They gave me a workaround but I’m not interested.

We use the Xero Global Edition in Ireland. Accrual method reporting is fine for VAT. But it doesn't handle Hybrid method VAT reporting.

I wrote some online tools to assist with running our own business payroll software business, Parolla. These tools have been made public for anyone to use at https://www.parolla.ie/online-payroll-software-features/xero-addon-tools/

Best of luck.
Mark Ogilvie
Parolla.

Masala wrote: »

Been awhile since I studied accountancy.... but what is hybrid Vat Reporting?

In Ireland a company can choose to assess VAT on cash/receipts basis, or accrual/invoice basis, and a third method of cash receipts on sales and accruals on purchases.

In Xero terms the third method is the hybrid method.

We use accrual primarily for simplicity, and as we're not a cash business, the sales tax report and VAT3 generator suit our requirements nicely.

Regards,
Mark
Parolla

ThreeGreens wrote: »

That's not correct.
VAT can be account for on an:
- accruals basis (When VAT is owed on sales invoices and claimed on purchase invoices based on the date on the invoice) or
- cash receipts basis (VAT on sales VAT is owed when collected, and claimed on purchase invoices based on the date on the purchase invoice).

Here is a link to Revenue https://www.revenue.ie/en/vat/accounting-for-vat/when-is-vat-due/index.aspx.

Where you are not required to issue an invoice, VAT becomes due on:

• the date the supply was made

or

• the date any payment in advance is received for the supply.

.....

Where you are required to issue an invoice, VAT becomes due at the earlier of:

• the date you issue the invoice

or

• if you have not issued the invoice, the date by which you should have issued that invoice.

There is no system in Ireland for VAT being claimed when the purchase invoice is paid. Of course Revenue won't object to this, because you are claiming it later than you are entitled to, so there is no loss to Revenue. But this is not a system recognised by Revenue in Ireland.

I made no reference to when a purchase invoice is paid.

Of course, readers of this thread should take advice from their accountant or someone they pay money to. Everything else is just our opinions.

The rules you quote above are for when an invoice must be issued. They aren't relevant to the basis for calculating your VAT return nor are the rules for intra community acquisitions.

I made no reference to when a purchase invoice is paid.

Well then can you explain what you believe your three different basis of VAT collections are?
You list "In Ireland a company can choose to assess VAT on cash/receipts basis, or accrual/invoice basis, and a third method of cash receipts on sales and accruals on purchases."

Accruals/invoice basis we agree on. Both sales and purchases trigger a VAT event on the date of the invoice.

What you are calling a hybrid "Cash receipts on sales and accruals on purchases" is what I and revenue call a "Cash receipts basis".

What do you understand by your other method, what you are calling a "cash/receipts basis"? How does it different from the two above? And if you wanted to use that basis, how would you notify Revenue what you wanted to use it?

I'll start out by stating that I'm not an accountant. And I'm happy to admit where I'm wrong, or take more learned advice.

A good plan When you're in a hole, stop digging
This is an area that I deal with all the time.

Your flaw seems to be to taking your tax advice from how Xero is structured. Xero is not set up to handle VAT correctly for someone opting for the Cash Receipts basis in Ireland (and we don't call anything here a hybrid model).

The whole web page is titled "When is VAT due". It's sections refer to when VAT is due for different sales types.

That may be true, but that is very different from the basis used for preparing your VAT return. The rules you are quoting are there to avoid people getting paid but failing to issue an invoice and hence delaying the VAT charge while on an accruals basis. They are also there to avoid people not invoicing until they get paid, even when the service has been completed or the goods transferred. They aren't anything to do with the basis for preparing your VAT return.

A company that only deals in invoices is naturally a fully accruals/invoicing scenario.
A company that has cash sales without invoices, by default, should be reporting by the cash on sales.

Again this is not correct.
All businesses are supposed to issue an invoice or receipt. Nobody is supposed to issue sales without them. And if what you said was true, it would be very confusing where a business sometimes issues invoices and sometimes not! Which basis to use!?

In reality, a business registers for VAT by completing a VAT registration application. If you search for a form TR1 or TR2 you'll see the details required, though almost all now are registered on ROS. Very few are allowed use paper registrations anymore.

As part of the registration process you are asked if you wish to use the Cash Receipts Basis. If you don't select that, then you are on the accruals basis. If you select it, then you are on the Cash Receipts Basis (Sales VAT=VAT on monies received in the period and Purchases VAT = VAT on purchases invoiced to you in the period) assuming you qualify to be on it.

You can change between methods at any time (assuming you qualify) but you must notify that to Revenue.
It's nothing to do with whether you issue invoices or not.

There is no third method of accounting for VAT.

Xero does not handle this well.

The one good bit of advice you gave is that the poster should speak to their accountant who will know this stuff (it's basic to any accountant in practice) rather than take advice from well meaning, but misinformed, people here.