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25-09-2019, 09:13   #16
drunkmonkey
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Originally Posted by Veritas Libertas View Post

Hypothetical: If it turns out Trump did influence Ukraine for his benefit of investigating Biden, do you think the senate would impeach him?
It's a republican Senate not a hope. I don't see anything wrong with asking Ukraine to assist in the criminal investigation of Biden. It's looks like it goes a bit deeper than Biden, Obama and the Clintons are wrapped up in it.
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25-09-2019, 09:17   #17
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I don't see anything wrong with asking Ukraine to assist in the criminal investigation of Biden.
You don't see anything wrong in the POTUS using the office to effectively get an edge on an election by "blackmailing" a foreign power?

Srsly?

Whether you don't see anything wrong with it or not, it's a crime.
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25-09-2019, 09:25   #18
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What crime is it? It's exposed or has the potential to expose serious crimes. So they have a choice now plough ahead with the impeachment and expose themselves or back down. It's a checkmate situation. Every which way they lose.
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25-09-2019, 09:32   #19
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What crime is it?
Solicitation of a foreign power to "meddle" in an election is a crime.

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?...dition:prelim)

The fact you can't see anything wrong with it is moot.
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25-09-2019, 09:33   #20
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It's a republican Senate not a hope. I don't see anything wrong with asking Ukraine to assist in the criminal investigation of Biden. It's looks like it goes a bit deeper than Biden, Obama and the Clintons are wrapped up in it.
You see nothing wrong.... but it is illegal, so what you or any other regular joe see or believe is irrelevant. He either broke the law or he didn't.

I'm also surprised trump supporters aren't trying to shoehorn a few more Democrat names in there. It's just bait for all those crazies that populate twitter and facebook. After all it's the only way to deflect from the fact that it's their beloved Trump who is being impeached and will be openly investigated. I mean Giuliani was even ranting about Soros!

And Hilary again? Seriously that ship has sailed.

It's a bit like an attempt at a sting from a dying wasp. But the wasp's death is going to just drag on and on for the year ahead.
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25-09-2019, 09:34   #21
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If it can be shown that he made $400 million in aid contingent on Ukraine taking part in something that was aimed at smearing Biden in some way, that would be a pretty serious issue.

But I don't think many party members on either side would actually give much of a sh!t about the actual principles of it all. The Dems would piously attack, the Reps would prevaricate and play down and muddy the waters, and some time in the not-too-distant future something similar will happen under a Democrat president, and everybody will play the political game again, except with roles reversed, making the same arguments they all had such contempt for previously.

Nothing matters really, except for getting your champ in the white house and then keeping them there. Anything is fair game when it comes to that.

I'm sure this is what the impeachment is about also.
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25-09-2019, 09:35   #22
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What crime is it?
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinio...dy-ncna1058196
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As explained by my colleague, former U.S. Attorney Barbara McQuade, in the Daily Beast, it is a crime under the federal bribery statute for a public official to demand anything of value in exchange for performing an official act. Additionally, the Hobbs Act defines extortion as "obtaining property from another, with his consent, under color of official right." McQuade continues:

The essence of both crimes is a demand by a public official to obtain something for himself to which he is not entitled in exchange for performing an official act of his office. Here, if the reporting is correct, Trump may be similarly committing bribery and extortion by using the power of his office to demand a thing of value, dirt on Biden, in exchange for an official act, the provision of military aid. This is precisely the kind of old-fashioned corruption scheme that the bribery and extortion statutes were designed to punish.
And, if Giuliani assisted or agreed to assist this scheme — even if he did not fully adopt the entire plan — may have aided and abetted or conspired to commit those same crimes. In addition, the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act makes it illegal for a U.S. citizen to corruptly offer “anything of value” to a foreign official to retain business or influence an official decision.

Giuliani defended himself by claiming that “no money was mentioned, no quid pro quo,” in the call between Trump and the Ukranian president. Let’s see if that’s true. But more important, Giuliani — a former mob prosecutor — surely knows that most crimes don’t happen so explicitly. In 16 years of listening to criminals on wiretaps, I rarely heard anyone say, “If you don’t give me X, I will do Y.” That’s not how mafia bosses work. They make a “request” and others follow up with the demand. The law is very clear that a quid pro quo need not be explicit for a crime to have taken place. It can be inferred from the facts as a whole.
^^^crimes
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25-09-2019, 09:36   #23
Call me Al
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Originally Posted by Boggles View Post
You don't see anything wrong in the POTUS using the office to effectively get an edge on an election by "blackmailing" a foreign power?

Srsly?

Whether you don't see anything wrong with it or not, it's a crime.
Trump doesn't think so either. I think he said as much a couple of weeks back?... hmmm... I wonder why he might have said that!
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25-09-2019, 09:40   #24
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Trump doesn't think so either. I think he said as much a couple of weeks back?... hmmm... I wonder why he might have said that!
When Fox News contributors are saying he committed a crime, I think it's time for his cheerleaders to check their pom poms.
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25-09-2019, 09:45   #25
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I think this will drag out so long that Trump will have finished his term of Presidency by the time it reaches conclusion.
You think itll keep going till 2024 ?
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25-09-2019, 09:49   #26
drunkmonkey
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When Fox News contributors are saying he committed a crime, I think it's time for his cheerleaders to check their pom poms.
I don't think that's what there saying. CNN aren't even saying that. Biden is the story.
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25-09-2019, 09:51   #27
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I don't think that's what there saying. CNN aren't even saying that. Biden is the story.
Pretty sure impeachment proceedings against the sitting President is the story.
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25-09-2019, 09:51   #28
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I don't think that's what there saying. CNN aren't even saying that. Biden is the story.
Judge Napolitano: Trump has admitted committing crime in talks with Ukraine

Like I said time to check the pom poms.
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25-09-2019, 09:55   #29
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Pretty sure impeachment proceedings against the sitting President is the story.
Those proceedings are going nowhere she doesn't even know what she's impeaching him for, all off the back of a whistleblower with a dislike for Trump. She's playing high stakes poker and has went all in without checking her cards.
He won't be impeached by a republican Senate he may win the election while this is all going on though.
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25-09-2019, 09:57   #30
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all off the back of a whistleblower with a dislike for Trump.
Oh, discredit the whistleblower. Cool tactic, pretty original too.

How do you know he / she has a dislike for Trump?
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