Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

Outlaw Pete · 20-09-2019 4:26am

Giuliani a mess here. At one point he actually says:

"You [CNN] want to cover some ridiculous charge that I urged the Ukrainian government to investigate corruption ..... well I did, and I'm proud of it"

https://twitter.com/dcexaminer/status/1174881353780858880

Couple of tweets he's made since then, one of which includes the Biden council meeting he referenced:

https://twitter.com/RudyGiuliani/status/1174879405988077568
https://twitter.com/RudyGiuliani/status/1174882255736594432

everlast75 · 20-09-2019 5:44am

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Giuliani a mess

And I thought Trump only hired the best people...

So Rudy pretty much confirms this is what the story is about and admits he did it.

No wonder trump tries to stop any one of his cronies from testifying. Corey was a farce by the end of Tuesday's questioning and everytime Rudy opens his mouth he digs himself and Trump deeper.

If Biden's son didn't anything wrong here, he should face the full force of the law. But let's not kid ourselves here. Trump was using the power of his office to bribe a foreign country to investigate and charge a political opponent in an upcoming election, and not for some altruistic reasons.

It's an out and out disgrace and I would challenge any Trump supporter to say here otherwise. The amount of whistleblowers and people leaking to the press at their own personal risk, along with the pushback against this coming out indicates how serious it is.

Its yet more series trouble for 45, but as an side, if there's any karma in the world Rudy should be on the hook for acting illegally. He is a shadow of his former self and really has degenerated into a disgrace.

Edit - then Rudy tweets this.

Wow.

https://twitter.com/RudyGiuliani/status/1174879405988077568?s=19

Manic Moran · 20-09-2019 5:56am

derossi wrote: »

It's good to know though, as a bad hombre that wants to take drugs over the border....before we build a tunnel I need to know details about the wall. No hassle, let me just check Trumps statement. OK, its hardened steel and has sensors. If we try to cut it they will know. If you go 4 foot tunnel you wont get through. 5000 lbs of concrete. Ok he said 7 odd foot so lets go 9 foot below and see what happens. Great we didnt waste all this money with our first idea or tunnel.

In fairness, Trump didn't design the wall, I suspect CBP know what they are doing.

Digging deeper is likely to increase sensitivity to the variety of sensors which CBP uses, such as BTADS-P and ASI. I wouldn't be surprised to discover that airborne GPR works better with a bit of depth differential as well, but I've only had limited experience working with those. Tunnel detection isn't just a border patrol problem, we've had to deal with the issue in Afghanistan and Korea as well, the US has developed quite a few systems to track their creation.

TomOnBoard · 20-09-2019 6:45am

everlast75 wrote: »

And I thought Trump only hired the best people...

So Rudy pretty much confirms this is what the story is about and admits he did it.

No wonder trump tries to stop any one of his cronies from testifying. Corey was a farce by the end of Tuesday's questioning and everytime Rudy opens his mouth he digs himself and Trump deeper.

If Biden's son didn't anything wrong here, he should face the full force of the law. But let's not kid ourselves here. Trump was using the power of his office to bribe a foreign country to investigate and charge a political opponent in an upcoming election, and not for some altruistic reasons.

It's an out and out disgrace and I would challenge any Trump supporter to say here otherwise. The amount of whistleblowers and people leaking to the press at their own personal risk, along with the pushback against this coming out indicates how serious it is.

Its yet more series trouble for 45, but as an side, if there's any karma in the world Rudy should be on the hook for acting illegally. He is a shadow of his former self and really has degenerated into a disgrace.

Edit - then Rudy tweets this.

Wow.

https://twitter.com/RudyGiuliani/status/1174879405988077568?s=19

Basically, he can say whatever he likes, and there's going to be no comeback unless he and all the rest of the shills are put under oath. Remember, the M.O. of this Administration was stated very clearly by Lewandowski as :

'I have no obligation to be honest with the media'

So, believe absolutely nothing you hear any of these amoral Trumpets saying, whether their utterances are admissions or denials of wrongdoing. They don't know what truth is and will throw out any ould codology, knowing that they're more or less immune from being called to account!

And that's why the White House of Lies is fighting subpoenas across the Board. They know that if they can prevent the Congress and/or Courts from putting these people under oath, they'll be grand! I mean, when a White House invents a form of privilege to mask the actions and conversations of people who never worked a single day in the WH, and they get away with it in front of Congress, the liars have basically taken down the Government of the United States, without firing a single shot!

TomOnBoard · 20-09-2019 7:07am

Just finished watching the UNCUT interview (if you could call it that) between Cuomo and Giuliani.

Jeez, there must be something horrendous bubbling away behind the scenes, judging by Rudy''s totally unhinged performance!

everlast75 · 20-09-2019 7:22am

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Just finished watching the UNCUT interview (if you could call it that) between Cuomo and Giuliani.

Jeez, there must be something horrendous bubbling away behind the scenes, judging by Rudy''s totally unhinged performance!

Incredible stuff...

As a few people have said on Twitter, its almost...

"You're damn right I ordered the code Red!!!"

https://twitter.com/axios/status/1174855025048375296?s=19

FreudianSlippers · 20-09-2019 10:09am

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Except it's not new wall though , it's replacing existing wall.

Almost 3 years in and they still haven't built a single foot of NEW wall.

I'm pretty sure his promise wasn't "I'll repair the existing wall that Bush and Obama built with money stolen from the budget to build schools for Veterans children"

I'd be remiss not to point out this has been stated to Pete on at least 3 occasions now.

duploelabs · 20-09-2019 10:44am

everlast75 wrote: »

Incredible stuff...

As a few people have said on Twitter, its almost...

"You're damn right I ordered the code Red!!!"

https://twitter.com/axios/status/1174855025048375296?s=19

Whenever some 'pearl clutching' mishap occurs with the Trump team, usually by Rudi, I always look to what they're trying to obfuscate from the press time line.
Subpoenaed tax returns being blocked in Manhattan by Trump's legal team perhaps?

Zubeneschamali · 20-09-2019 10:49am

Mueller testified on July 24, and Trump knew he had gotten away with collusion in the 2016 election.

25th, the next day, he was on the phone to Zelensky, colluding to fix 2020 election.

Zubeneschamali · 20-09-2019 10:52am

duploelabs wrote: »

Whenever some 'pearl clutching' mishap occurs with the Trump team, usually by Rudi, I always look to what they're trying to obfuscate from the press time line.

Rudi is coming out to say he was the one doing the collusion to distract from the fact that the whistleblower says Trump did it himself, personally.

This is similar to Donald jr. meeting the Russians to get dirt on Hillary, except this time it is Trump himself, where last time he had some deniabilty.

EltonJohn69 · 20-09-2019 1:43pm

Trump is tweeting... trying to discredit the whisle blower.... saying many other people who heard this conversation thought it was “pitch perfect” .... when he tweets/talks like this there is definitely something there... I honestly think this might bring him down

Cody montana · 20-09-2019 1:47pm

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

Trump is tweeting... trying to discredit the whisle blower.... saying many other people who heard this conversation thought it was “pitch perfect” .... when he tweets/talks like this there is definitely something there... I honestly think this might bring him down

We’ve been here before and nothing happened.

everlast75 · 20-09-2019 1:48pm

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

Trump is tweeting... trying to discredit the whisle blower.... saying many other people who heard this conversation thought it was “pitch perfect” .... when he tweets/talks like this there is definitely something there... I honestly think this might bring him down

1) he also said that the whistle-blower was partisan - how does he know the political affiliation of the Whistle-blower?

2) the IG who confirmed the report was valid and urgent.... was appointed by Trump

3) If there was nothing wrong with the conversation,

a) Why deny it ever happened (he called it fake news)
b) why not release the transcript?
c) why stop the whistle-blower's complaint getting to congress

4) when he says many other people, he means no one.

EltonJohn69 · 20-09-2019 1:54pm

This story really dropped in perfect time for the weekend news cycle... I expect furious tweeting from trump.... and a sprinkle of Rudi G appearances talking crazy conspiracies

Gbear · 20-09-2019 2:00pm

What Trump has proven is that there is no oversight over the executive and that the checks and balances were a fiction.

You can just ignore the law now and nothing happens, because the executive control the federal legal system.

It is entirely at the prerogative of the President whether the law is followed.

Even if Trump didn't have a corrupt Senate enabling him, it's unlikely he'd have to worry about impeachment because the probability of them ever convicting one of their own, or one party holding 2/3 of the seats are very low indeed.

Nixon thought he was finished, but it's only decades later we have found out that he probably could've just decided not to be.

The only way Trump will possibly be removed is in the 2020 election, but even then it's far from certain given how much effort he has gone to to fraudulently set the scene for the election being "stolen" from him.

Probably the best guarantor of him leaving is that he's obese and elderly, and will likely be dead fairly soon, but he has made very clear that it's open season on American democracy and at any time, unless the norms and laws with no teeth are amended to be concrete, the door is open for fascism to take full control of the US federal government.

check_six · 20-09-2019 2:39pm

Gbear wrote: »

What Trump has proven is that there is no oversight over the executive and that the checks and balances were a fiction.

You can just ignore the law now and nothing happens, because the executive control the federal legal system.

It is entirely at the prerogative of the President whether the law is followed.

Even if Trump didn't have a corrupt Senate enabling him, it's unlikely he'd have to worry about impeachment because the probability of them ever convicting one of their own, or one party holding 2/3 of the seats are very low indeed.

Nixon thought he was finished, but it's only decades later we have found out that he probably could've just decided not to be.

Think it's worse than that to be honest. Once a party's candidate is deemed elected, that's it. They have the presidency for four years no matter what. Even if something extraordinary was to happen and the original candidate was booted out, the next in the chain takes over, and so on.

There seems to be no election recall system, or even a way of an early election being forced. Even if there was proven massive election fraud the winning party could just shrug their shoulders and say "So what?" and hang in there for 4 years and just do it all over again the next time.

This notional "democracy" is only held together by people sticking to the "norms" and accepted traditions and modes of behaviour. There are no strict rules written down (certainly not enough rules). If the norms are jettisoned... well... I think you can see what happens.

Stallingrad · 20-09-2019 2:41pm

^ Depressing stuff and well put. Add to that the intense desire to impeach or prosecute him post Presidency means he will fight tooth and nail to stay in power where he is safe. Kind of like how all dictators end up in power.

Leroy42 · 20-09-2019 2:55pm

Well, the other side to that is that if a party does engage in such behaviour there are mid term and local elections on which the voters can voice their anger and displeasure at the ruling party.

That is actually a better system than the ones we have in Ireland or the UK for example where once elected, every TD/MP is pretty much bullet proof for 5 years.

If you make it so that POTUS can be removed, you need to ensure that the criteria is extraordinarily onerous to avoid petty and politically driven attempts for happening, and thus derailing any and all POTUS. But no matter what rules you bring in, Trump has demonstrated beyond any doubt that people will find a way around them. No allowed lie under oath, simple, don't give evidence.

The whole system is based on two fundamentals, both of which no longer hold up. 1) voters will exercise their responsibility to vote for the best candidate, not just the one they like the best and 2) that elected officials will put country first regardless of the effect to their party.

everlast75 · 20-09-2019 3:00pm

The only use Trump will be is to serve as a means of identifying those areas of the presidency open to corruption, so that the loopholes can be closed for future generations...

Igotadose · 20-09-2019 3:45pm

Posted something about this a couple days ago. Well, now it seems like the Fed's intervened 4 times (last article I saw said 3) this week to inject $$ into the market. $200bn injected so far.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49760502

Fed chair saying it's nothing to worry about, they've done this in the past. But, this coupled with reduction in interest rates at the same time looks puzzling, that and the cognoscenti not understanding the underlying causes that are making the Fed inject capital. Might be 'stealth QE.'

eire4 · 20-09-2019 5:44pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

Well, the other side to that is that if a party does engage in such behaviour there are mid term and local elections on which the voters can voice their anger and displeasure at the ruling party.

That is actually a better system than the ones we have in Ireland or the UK for example where once elected, every TD/MP is pretty much bullet proof for 5 years.

If you make it so that POTUS can be removed, you need to ensure that the criteria is extraordinarily onerous to avoid petty and politically driven attempts for happening, and thus derailing any and all POTUS. But no matter what rules you bring in, Trump has demonstrated beyond any doubt that people will find a way around them. No allowed lie under oath, simple, don't give evidence.

The whole system is based on two fundamentals, both of which no longer hold up. 1) voters will exercise their responsibility to vote for the best candidate, not just the one they like the best and 2) that elected officials will put country first regardless of the effect to their party.

Your argument assumes that the US has a legitimate electoral process and is an actual democracy neither of which is the case IMHO. It is my contention that at this point the US is an oligarchy.
Voter suppression is widespread. Gerrymandering of districts is widespread. The supreme court has been turned into an arm of the far right and have ensured that the system is totally corrupted by money. Seen clearly on various topics where the vast majority of the population want something and yet nothing gets done because the facts are the majority of those in congress are bought and paid for and act accordingly.
Then there is the fact that the 2 party duopoly on power is so corrupted they both make sure that no other alternatives can ever actually emerge on any real national scale. A massive reason that voter participation is so low in the US.

serfboard · 20-09-2019 5:59pm

everlast75 wrote: »

1) he also said that the whistle-blower was partisan - how does he know the political affiliation of the Whistle-blower?

Have you not got it by now? The whistle-blower reported bad behaviour by Trump - therefore the whistle-blower is partisan.

everlast75 · 20-09-2019 6:18pm

eire4 wrote: »

Your argument assumes that the US has a legitimate electoral process and is an actual democracy neither of which is the case IMHO. It is my contention that at this point the US is an oligarchy.
Voter suppression is widespread. Gerrymandering of districts is widespread. The supreme court has been turned into an arm of the far right and have ensured that the system is totally corrupted by money. Seen clearly on various topics where the vast majority of the population want something and yet nothing gets done because the facts are the majority of those in congress are bought and paid for and act accordingly.
Then there is the fact that the 2 party duopoly on power is so corrupted they both make sure that no other alternatives can ever actually emerge on any real national scale. A massive reason that voter participation is so low in the US.

Another huge issue with US elections is the key factor is money.

People get correspondence asking for cash.

If FF or FG wrote to people over here they'd be told to **** off.

Large donations=political influence. Pay to play is effectively tolerated

serfboard · 20-09-2019 6:26pm

everlast75 wrote: »

Another huge issue with US elections is the key factor is money.

People get correspondence asking for cash.

If FF or FG wrote to people over here they'd be told to **** off.

Large donations=political influence. Pay to play is effectively tolerated

I heard David Simon (creator of The Wire and a very political animal) say that Congress people in the US spend 50% of their time begging for money from donors.

Leroy42 · 20-09-2019 6:38pm

A lot of the issues, but certainly not all, is due to boter apathy and acceptance. Apathy in the millions that simply don't bother to vote and acceptance by way of the millions who vote for their party no matter what.

if you don't like the carry on of the two main parties then vote independent or do as AOC did and stand against the incumbent.

If large amounts are voting independent, whilst it won't change things overnight, the main parties will notice the rise of something outside their control.

Ludo · 20-09-2019 9:29pm

This Ukraine phone call is getting interesting. Threatening to withhold congressionally approved funds to Ukraine unless they investigate Bidens son is, emmm, kinda a dodgey thing todo.

Not getting my hopes up yet, but this one could actually have some legs.

Gbear · 20-09-2019 9:42pm

Ludo wrote: »

This Ukraine phone call is getting interesting. Threatening to withhold congressionally approved funds to Ukraine unless they investigate Bidens son is, emmm, kinda a dodgey thing todo.

Not getting my hopes up yet, but this one could actually have some legs.

It isn't any worse than anything else he's already done.

He's literally keeping brown children in concentration camps and nothing happened.

If you consider the kinds of thing Republican representatives appear to care about, there's no reason to think this will make any difference to them.

I can't imagine any Republican "moderates" will deem this to be the final straw if they've been happy to chug the swill Trump has been serving up so far.

And then you have the base, who actively want an autocracy - either a white nationalist one, or a theocratic one - so they'll just want to know what dirt they found on Grandpa Joe.

EltonJohn69 · 20-09-2019 9:44pm

He didn’t actually say anything about withholding the 250 million during the phone call, though that funding definitely was an issue both parties were aware of, but he did ask the Ukraine president EIGHT times to get dirt on Biden

Ludo · 20-09-2019 9:47pm

Gbear wrote: »

It isn't any worse than anything else he's already done.

He's literally keeping brown children in concentration camps and nothing happened.

If you consider the kinds of thing Republican representatives appear to care about, there's no reason to think this will make any difference to them.

I can't imagine any Republican "moderates" will deem this to be the final straw if they've been happy to chug the swill Trump has been serving up so far.

And then you have the base, who actively want an autocracy - either a white nationalist one, or a theocratic one - so they'll just want to know what dirt they found on Grandpa Joe.

I suspect you are dead right unfortunately. I hold out small hope that asking a foreign power to interfere again in a presidential election like this MIGHT cause a push back from "normal" Republicans, but probably not.

TomOnBoard · 20-09-2019 9:49pm

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

He didn’t actually say anything about withholding the 250 million during the phone call, though that funding definitely was an issue both parties were aware of, but he did ask the Ukraine president EIGHT times to get dirt on Biden

Has a tape or transcript been published?

Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

Comments