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National Women's Council of Ireland calls for gender quotas in local elections

24

Comments

  • #32
    ...Ghost...
    Registered Users Posts: 3,262 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    bren2001 wrote: »

    Saying that, I'll bite, chances are I wouldn't support religious quotas. I think dividing people up according to a biological fact to ensure that they have equal representation is fair. Dividing people along lines of who believes in a made-up story does not seem correct to me.

    Utter BS. You support gender quotas presumably because men and women think differently, partially due to their biology. At the same time, you not only rule out, but you mock religious quotas (and religious people) and why? Because someone who has spiritual belief might think differently? Hypocrisy there.

    Stay Free



  • #33
    bren2001
    Registered Users Posts: 5,972 ✭✭✭bren2001


    ...Ghost... wrote: »
    Utter BS. You support gender quotas presumably because men and women think differently, partially due to their biology. At the same time, you not only rule out, but you mock religious quotas (and religious people) and why? Because someone who has spiritual belief might think differently? Hypocrisy there.

    One's based on scientific and biological fact owing to different chemical and hormonal balances. The other is based on belief and belief alone with no scientific fact to back it up.

    You should check the definition of hypocrisy. I might disagree with other posters here, hell everyone seems to disagree with me, but they are at least presenting something logical.


  • #34
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Surely to have gender quota's you need to have more women taking the decision to run?
    The idea behind them is to help redress the imbalance in politics so that in future more women will want to run through having more role models and we'll have less need to resort to crude quotas. In theory of course!


  • #35
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 32,972 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    True, but if 75% of people who run for election are men, and you make it 50/50 appointments, then surely that's discimination too?

    If more men run, maths tells you more men are going to get elected.


  • #36
    munsterbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 319 ✭✭munsterbear


    If they want quotas for elected officials, then introduce quotas for every single job. Including bin men, road sweepers, etc etc


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  • #37
    iptba
    Registered Users Posts: 4,873 ✭✭✭iptba


    is_that_so wrote: »
    The idea behind them is to help redress the imbalance in politics so that in future more women will want to run through having more role models and we'll have less need to resort to crude quotas. In theory of course!
    There was no time limit put on the gender quotas for elections to the Dáil.


  • #38
    iptba
    Registered Users Posts: 4,873 ✭✭✭iptba


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Surely to have gender quota's you need to have more women taking the decision to run?
    Well it's not 100% essential, but if one is picking from a smaller pool, it risks a lower quality of candidate an average.


  • #39
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 32,972 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    munsterbear wrote: »
    If they want quotas for elected officials, then introduce quotas for every single job. Including bin men, road sweepers, etc etc

    I think you'd enjoy this film

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3686998/?ref_=nv_sr_1?ref_=nv_sr_1


  • #40
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    I love the right on bull**** about women needing the quotas becaus they need them role models. Next will be minorities both racial and sexual.

    The sooner the better we have the snap back of people turning against PC culture the better.


  • #41
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,291 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    How about racial quotas or class quotas?


    Or maybe just let people vote for whoever they like


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  • #42
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    iptba wrote: »
    There was no time limit put on the gender quotas for elections to the Dáil.
    No but I reckon it will be less of an issue after about 3 election cycles. Really what parties should be doing is getting women involved at very local level rather than scrambling to find enough females.


  • #43
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 32,972 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    is_that_so wrote: »
    No but I reckon it will be less of an issue after about 3 election cycles. Really what parties should be doing is getting women involved at very local level rather than scrambling to find enough females.

    Is it up to the party to go to the women, or women to go to the parties?

    If there's women out there who want to see more of their gender in politics, why do they have to wait to be approached?


  • #44
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    How about racial quotas or class quotas?


    Or maybe just let people vote for whoever they like
    Technically they can never do that if they want to choose a party, seeing as parties pick the candidates for election.


  • #45
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Is it up to the party to go to the women, or women to go to the parties?

    If there's women out there who want to see more of their gender in politics, why do they have to wait to be approached?

    Well the quotas are already there so I'd say the parties need to attract them in. Incidentally the quotas are only for the GE but here's some data in the recent locals.


    https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2019/0519/1050380-female-candidates/


  • #46
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    How about racial quotas or class quotas?


    Or maybe just let people vote for whoever they like

    Racial quota's are probably next and as i said have to add the LGBT flavor on top. Cannot let all the CIS folk have their way.


  • #47
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Well the quotas are already there so I'd say the parties need to attract them in. Incidentally the quotas are only for the GE but here's some data in the recent locals.


    https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2019/0519/1050380-female-candidates/

    Imagine having to vote for a dud you knew was only their because of her sex. You would think they really are the weaker sex.


  • #48
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Calhoun wrote: »
    Racial quota's are probably next and as i said have to add the LGBT flavor on top. Cannot let all the CIS folk have their way.
    It's not going to happen. They are more individual calls for parties. At local level there is a case for looking at candidates from specific communities if they think they can get them elected.


  • #49
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Calhoun wrote: »
    Imagine having to vote for a dud you knew was only their because of her sex. You would think they really are the weaker sex.
    A vote is your own choice. Someone else might view your choice as a dud.

    BTW Dun Laoghaire have hit 50/50 and the world hasn't ended.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/d%C3%BAn-laoghaire-rathdown-first-ever-council-with-50-50-gender-split-1.3906304


  • #50
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    is_that_so wrote: »
    A vote is your own choice. Someone else might view your choice as a dud.

    BTW Dun Laoghaire have hit 50/50 and the world hasn't ended.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/d%C3%BAn-laoghaire-rathdown-first-ever-council-with-50-50-gender-split-1.3906304

    No one is saying the world will end because you have 50:50 in office. What we are discussing is getting elected based on sex rather than merit.

    Would you rather have sexists like Mary Mitchell O Connor or Regina Doherty who are only to happy to take advantage of the system to stay in power or back a decent female leader / role model.


  • #51
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    is_that_so wrote: »
    It's not going to happen. They are more individual calls for parties. At local level there is a case for looking at candidates from specific communities if they think they can get them elected.

    When they see how well the free meal pass is for females why wouldn't they try it ?


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  • #52
    iptba
    Registered Users Posts: 4,873 ✭✭✭iptba


    is_that_so wrote: »

    BTW Dun Laoghaire have hit 50/50 and the world hasn't ended.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/d%C3%BAn-laoghaire-rathdown-first-ever-council-with-50-50-gender-split-1.3906304
    I don’t see how that proves much given the election was only few days ago.


  • #53
    iptba
    Registered Users Posts: 4,873 ✭✭✭iptba


    is_that_so wrote: »
    A vote is your own choice. Someone else might view your choice as a dud.

    BTW Dun Laoghaire have hit 50/50 and the world hasn't ended.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/d%C3%BAn-laoghaire-rathdown-first-ever-council-with-50-50-gender-split-1.3906304
    Note the non-neutral language (“best”, “worst”). RTE used similar language in a piece a few days ago as I highlighted elsewhere.
    The party with the next best percentile was Fine Gael, where 57 of its 237 candidates were women.
    The worst-performing category were the Independents, with 34 female candidates elected, which was 17.7 per cent of the total in that category.


  • #54
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    If we want to have a serious conversation about voting in Ireland we should look at breaking the back of nepotism but doubt that will happen .


  • #55
    iptba
    Registered Users Posts: 4,873 ✭✭✭iptba


    Calhoun wrote: »
    If we want to have a serious conversation about voting in Ireland we should look at breaking the back of nepotism but doubt that will happen .
    Forcing gender quotas and targets could even increase the percentage of new candidates who are relatives of previously elected candidates if the pool of possible candidates who are female is smaller.


  • #56
    bren2001
    Registered Users Posts: 5,972 ✭✭✭bren2001


    Calhoun wrote: »
    No one is saying the world will end because you have 50:50 in office. What we are discussing is getting elected based on sex rather than merit.

    Would you rather have sexists like Mary Mitchell O Connor or Regina Doherty who are only to happy to take advantage of the system to stay in power or back a decent female leader / role model.

    I don't think anyone is trying to argue that it isn't discrimination. However, the goal of it is to increase female representation in elected positions with the long term view of not requiring quotas in the future. It is slightly unfair on men right now but what other solutions do you propose to increase female participation rates and representation?


  • #57
    iptba
    Registered Users Posts: 4,873 ✭✭✭iptba


    bren2001 wrote: »
    However, the goal of it is to increase female representation in elected positions with the long term view of not requiring quotas in the future.
    Again I will point out there was no time limit put on the existing quotas. People have a tendency to claim such quotas are not envisaged in the long-term with little if any evidence that they will ever be dropped.


  • #58
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    iptba wrote: »
    Forcing gender quotas and targets could even increase the percentage of new candidates who are relatives of previously elected candidates if the pool of possible candidates who are female is smaller.

    That is exactly what is happening it's why it's the government is so gung hoe on it. Nice sneaky way to get brownie points and keep the status quo.


  • #59
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,162 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    bren2001 wrote: »
    I don't think anyone is trying to argue that it isn't discrimination. However, the goal of it is to increase female representation in elected positions with the long term view of not requiring quotas in the future. It is slightly unfair on men right now but what other solutions do you propose to increase female participation rates and representation?

    The electorate is 50/50 yet men retire later than women, work longer hours, pay more money in tax, have less tax spent on them, travel further to work, work in less comfortable locations, work tough manual jobs that impact health, die younger then women, commit suicide more than women, suffer parental alienation due to separation, are accused of all sorts of abuse in family courts, are more likely to be addicted to sunstances, more likely to be homeless....

    The best example, of how completely unbalanced todays society is, is in the issue of Domestic Abuse, despite evidence that in the case of non reciprocal domestic abuse cases, 70% of the abuse is women abusing men.

    https://www.quora.com/How-serious-is-domestic-violence-against-men-compared-to-domestic-violence-against-women

    Amen receives less than €1,000,000 a year in funding, women's aid receives over €17,000,000....do you think that is "slightly unfair", these are men who are being abused in their homes!! When you consider that women control approx 80% of the domestic spend, which gender do you think is being financially abused?

    Again, I ask you, How are women at a disadvantage by not having 50/50 representation?


  • #60
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    bren2001 wrote: »
    I don't think anyone is trying to argue that it isn't discrimination. However, the goal of it is to increase female representation in elected positions with the long term view of not requiring quotas in the future. It is slightly unfair on men right now but what other solutions do you propose to increase female participation rates and representation?

    Why should we be happy with discrimination? Are women so weak they need the leg up?

    What do we don't attract men to politics today (outside of the political dynasties)? I don't remember specific things trying to attract me to become a politician.

    Also how sure are you they will remove the gender quotas and what happens if it goes the other way. Would you like quotas for men ?

    Tokenism is just absurd to me, I rather people get in off their own back.


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  • #61
    daheff
    Registered Users Posts: 5,833 ✭✭✭daheff


    so are the national womens council also looking for gender quotas in nursing, primary school teachers, secretaries, childcare, dental assistants, building sites, oil rigs, building trades etc etc

    nope they are quite quiet on this.


    i have no gripes in the % of women in any job. i do take an issue where it has to be a mandated percentage. Mandating it means that there is most likely better qualified/suited person who wants the job who wont get it... because of their gender. Last time I looked, that was discrimination on the basis of gender.

    I think the national womens council would be better taking a look at the reasons why some jobs are unrepresented by women and why some are over represented.

    All that said, gender quotas for candidates for Dail elections (none present for local elections) has increased the number of female tds..... so fair play on that score.


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