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25-03-2020, 12:01   #31
JustAThought
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Of course the issue with the RIVETERS and the political/ sociological climate at the time in Belfast was never discussed in any film - too hot a topic. The specialised tradesmen and labourers who built the boat in BELFAST allegedly had seams of the interior and exterior bulkheads that were purposefully not riveted together correctly - another major contributor to the failure of the bulkheads and leter confirmed after footage of the wreck on the seafloor was made.

Pertty low to blame one man in an idle afternoon even if he is long dead, for such a catastrophic event and all thise deaths.

Transatlantic record anyone?
Or do people just watch films and take their history from hollywood these days.

Not to mention the illegal trawler crew and its captain that did not stop to pick up survivors - I’d be putting a lot of weight on them. etc
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25-03-2020, 12:05   #32
Church on Tuesday
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I remember the National Geographic issue when they first got pics of the wreck, it was incredible. I pored over it for weeks.
I highly recommend Dr. Robert Ballad's Titanic: Last Great Images for anyone interested in detailed pictures of the wreck.
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25-03-2020, 12:13   #33
valoren
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Was it B.A Baracus
Let's Face it, he would have been B.A. Brrracus had he sailed.
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25-03-2020, 12:16   #34
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If the exact same thing happened today in the same place would the vast majority of people have survived
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25-03-2020, 12:16   #35
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Yes and No.

It's a good film,the best out there, but it doesn't portray the splitting of the ship and other details.

There were many eye witness accounts who stated the ship separated before it sank, which at the time was meet with a kind of ridicule.

Only with the discovery of the wreck was that assertion finally given credence.
Well that's the most glaring mistake and as you say there were more than a few survivors who said it at the investigations that they say the ship break apart. You'd think that if you were in that awful situation a ship the size of titanic breaking apart would be a think you'd remember clearly. I think the lights had gone out on the ship at that point so maybe it wasn't noticed.

There is difference in survivors recollections of many major events of the night. The song being played by the band wasn't unanimous. Where captain smith was last seen is a debate. There was a member of the crew who saw Thomas Andrews staring at the picture of Plymouth sound in the smoking room but the time is off by around twenty minutes. There was a huge noise heard which it was stated were the engines breaking loose and crashing through the ship which has been proven wrong.

The position of the ship was wrong. And then of course there is the issue of the Californian and captain Stanley lord. I don't know about that ship and flares and what they didn't see or did see.
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25-03-2020, 12:16   #36
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Take a 'bough' sir.


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Pretty stern appraisal of a difficult situation.






Stern
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25-03-2020, 12:21   #37
Hoop66
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this is riveting
Any more jokes like that and I'll keel you.
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25-03-2020, 12:21   #38
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Time stamps in the video, not the actual time of the night.
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25-03-2020, 12:24   #39
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My grandfather was alive when he saw the Titanic in Belfast. He told people it would sink but everyone ignored his warnings yet he continued to give people those warnings. He kept on trying to warn people it was going to sink until he was eventually escorted from the cinema.

Last edited by valoren; 25-03-2020 at 12:31.
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25-03-2020, 13:20   #40
Hector Savage
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It was a moonless night too ... made it all the darker ... good thread btw, gets my mind of things..
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25-03-2020, 13:32   #41
Still waters
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Originally Posted by JustAThought View Post
Of course the issue with the RIVETERS and the political/ sociological climate at the time in Belfast was never discussed in any film - too hot a topic. The specialised tradesmen and labourers who built the boat in BELFAST allegedly had seams of the interior and exterior bulkheads that were purposefully not riveted together correctly - another major contributor to the failure of the bulkheads and leter confirmed after footage of the wreck on the seafloor was made.

Pertty low to blame one man in an idle afternoon even if he is long dead, for such a catastrophic event and all thise deaths.

Transatlantic record anyone?
Or do people just watch films and take their history from hollywood these days.

Not to mention the illegal trawler crew and its captain that did not stop to pick up survivors - I’d be putting a lot of weight on them. etc
Why didn't they rivet the lanels correctly?

And tell us more about the illegal trawer and its crew, I've never heard of them and I've a few books read on the titanic
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25-03-2020, 13:38   #42
Charles Babbage
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While there are all sorts of details, the sinking of the Titantic comes down to one thing, sailing too fast at night. A slightly lower speed at night would likely have meant that we would never have heard of the ship. The Titanic was the second a series of ships, the Olympic was the first one and H&W were proud of it, the Titanic was largely the same and would not be notable if it hadn't sank.

The desire to speed wasn't Murdoch's decision.
In April, the hours of real darkness are only about 8 hours, one third of the day, it simply wasn't worth it since you could have gone faster in daylight.
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25-03-2020, 14:24   #43
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Titanic is one of the most fascinating tragedies of all time and probably one of the most studied.

As for the 'man responsible', I don't think there is one in this instance, but it is human nature to look for someone to blame I suppose. For me Titanic's sinking was a series of factors, such as:

1. The fire in the coal bunker which raged on for several days and weakened the bulkheads.

2. Steaming at near full speed in an ice-field and ignoring some of the warnings that were sent, especially the last one where Philips told the Californian to 'Keep out, shut up, I'm working Cape Race'. Although to be fair I believe these guys were retained by Marconi and under serious pressure to get their work done.

3. The shortage of lifeboats, which was perfectly legal at the time.

4. There being no requirement for ships to keep a 24hr wireless service, if there was perhaps the Californian would have come to the rescue as their operator had already gone to bed by the time Titanic started sending out distress signals.

5. Speaking of which the crew of the Californian while they can't be blamed for the tragedy, they were negligent in their duty. 2nd Officer Herbert Stone saw the rockets and reported them to captain Stanley Lord who quite dismissively chalked them down as 'company signals'. This ship was likely only 10 miles away or so but chose to brush off the signals rather than investigate them.

6. Weather conditions, it was a freakishly calm night for the north atlantic, by all accounts the ocean was as smooth as glass with no moon either to light up their surroundings. If the sea had of been a bit choppier, maybe the look outs would have seen the water breaking at the iceberg and spotted it a bit earlier.

7. Bad luck, in fairness this played a part to, it generally does in these tragedies, wrong place wrong time.

Finally as for Murdoch, to be honest I've never really considered him responsible, he was just doing what he was told in maintaining speed and heading and found himself in the wrong place at the wrong time. He done his best to avoid the berg and done his best to load the lifeboats (over half the people saved were loaded in by Murdoch).

Like many others he lost his life that night and will never get the chance to tell his story.
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25-03-2020, 14:55   #44
Itssoeasy
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Titanic is one of the most fascinating tragedies of all time and probably one of the most studied.

As for the 'man responsible', I don't think there is one in this instance, but it is human nature to look for someone to blame I suppose. For me Titanic's sinking was a series of factors, such as:

1. The fire in the coal bunker which raged on for several days and weakened the bulkheads.

2. Steaming at near full speed in an ice-field and ignoring some of the warnings that were sent, especially the last one where Philips told the Californian to 'Keep out, shut up, I'm working Cape Race'. Although to be fair I believe these guys were retained by Marconi and under serious pressure to get their work done.

3. The shortage of lifeboats, which was perfectly legal at the time.

4. There being no requirement for ships to keep a 24hr wireless service, if there was perhaps the Californian would have come to the rescue as their operator had already gone to bed by the time Titanic started sending out distress signals.

5. Speaking of which the crew of the Californian while they can't be blamed for the tragedy, they were negligent in their duty. 2nd Officer Herbert Stone saw the rockets and reported them to captain Stanley Lord who quite dismissively chalked them down as 'company signals'. This ship was likely only 10 miles away or so but chose to brush off the signals rather than investigate them.

6. Weather conditions, it was a freakishly calm night for the north atlantic, by all accounts the ocean was as smooth as glass with no moon either to light up their surroundings. If the sea had of been a bit choppier, maybe the look outs would have seen the water breaking at the iceberg and spotted it a bit earlier.

7. Bad luck, in fairness this played a part to, it generally does in these tragedies, wrong place wrong time.

Finally as for Murdoch, to be honest I've never really considered him responsible, he was just doing what he was told in maintaining speed and heading and found himself in the wrong place at the wrong time. He done his best to avoid the berg and done his best to load the lifeboats (over half the people saved were loaded in by Murdoch).

Like many others he lost his life that night and will never get the chance to tell his story.
The bulkhead may have played a part but I think it's given too much weight.

Well that reply to the Californian was in part because the machine had been broken the day before so they were making up the back log of telegrams they were sending. It's another what if because if they hadn't been swampt it's likely the ice warning may have gotten to the captain and maybe things would have turned out differently.

I think titanic had more lifeboats than was required at the time given its tonnage which is how it was calculated. There was provision for more but it wasn't required or wanted so there weren't enough.

The tragedy may have had a good outcome in that after there was a requirement for a 24 hour wireless at sea.

The Californian and its place in the this event are weird to me. Yes the crew as whole aren't to blame but Stanley lord till the day he died was trying to fix his reputation. Wasn't it always the case the the crew told him of the rockets but didn't push the issue ?

Yeah poor murdooch was in the wrong place at the wrong time. If it wasn't him on the bridge at the time of the accident it would have been someone else.
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25-03-2020, 14:58   #45
Itssoeasy
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Why didn't they rivet the lanels correctly?

And tell us more about the illegal trawer and its crew, I've never heard of them and I've a few books read on the titanic
I've never heard of a trawler either but there is a theory that there was a third boat in the area that night and it's what both titanic and Californian say and not each other. As I said it's a theory but the crew of the Californian said they say a large ship not a trawler which would surely be easily distinguishable.
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